Ramius Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 IIRC, Haynesworth signed a FAT deal last year, so he's unlikely going anywhere in 2009. Walker's really not that bad, you're just being a curmudgeon on that one. Emptying the roster of Denney/Schobel/Kelsay isn't too bad of an idea, but you can't dump them all at once. Same goes for Fowler/Preston. We should DEFINITELY dump Preston, but keep Fowler as a Whittle-like backup. Haynesworth signed the 1 year franchise tag tender, with certain plateaus that would inhibit the titans from tagging him again this season. He needed to hit 1 of them and has hit 2 or 3 of the 4 plateaus. The ball is in his court now whether or not he wants to re-up with the titans or hit the FA market.
metzelaars_lives Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 4. Most Bills fans believe they are the best fans in the NFL....they are no better or worse than anyone else How many away stadiums have you been to? You have no idea what it means to be a Bills fan if you really believe that. I live in Denver. Do you have any idea how fairweather Broncos fans are and how wine and cheese their tailgate scene is? Try going to Seattle or San Diego or Miami... KC- I'll give it up to those guys. Most traveled fans, myself included, would put Bills fans in an elite class with Green Bay, KC and a few others, but to insinuate that Bills fans are no better or worse than Rams or Cardinals fans? Come on man, you have no idea what you're talking about. Any major city in this country has a proud Bills Backers bar that will be packed with 100+ people this Sunday even though they suck.
thebandit27 Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 1. Most Bills fans look at who the QB and coach is too much 2. Most Bills fans are overly optimistic before the season and overly pessimistic when the slightest things go wrong 3. Most Bills fans overvalue big things and undervalue small things...which means they are brainwashed by the idiots at WGR 4. Most Bills fans believe they are the best fans in the NFL....they are no better or worse than anyone else 1. You're right, look what new coaches and QBs did for Miami, Baltimore, and Atlanta, sure didn't help them. I'll remind you that those teams had awful line play last season. They each brought in a combination of FA's and draft picks to be new starters, just like the Bills did before last season (Dockery, Walker, and Butler). 2. That's what happens when you start 5-1 and then go 1-6 in your next seven; people tend to lose a little faith in the team. If you didn't, then I feel obligated to call you stoopid. 3. Just because other fans place higher value on different things than you doesn't mean they are brainwashed. I think a large number of fans from any team would say that YOU are overvaluing less important positions if you want to "put a cone at QB". 4. Who cares if Bills' fans believe they're the best? Let them. If it makes them proud to go cheer for their team, fine! I've got news for you, EVERY fan base feels that they are the best fans in the NFL. EVERY...SINGLE...ONE. This is a useless statement.
MaybeNextYear Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Don't be using multisyllabic words with me! Walker is too big and too slow. He is strong but not powerful. We need smaller and quicker linemen to employ more zone blocking- which is what Lynch is suited to. If we do that, it will limit him more to one cut and go. I can really see him challenging 2000 yards if we fix this problem. I see Fowler more as a Ken Dorsey like back up- he is great to have as long as he doesn't play Every time I watch Walker he keeps reminding me of someone... I finally figured it out. Remember the movie "Wildcats" where Goldie Hawn coaches an inner city high school team. Remember the big fat kid "Finch", no heart, only plays for the money! Now I know who Walker reminds me of. We don't need any more Finch's. Give me a player with some heart and some attitude. Bring back Conrad Dobler!
Adam Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 Atlanta had a good team- it was being concealed by Vick's ineptness. He sabotaged the line and the WR's. Running QB's never have won in this league and never will. John Beck wasn't the reason Miami stunk last year- and by the way, they had the makings of a very good offensive line last year...just needed the finishing touches- and Cam Cameron was by far the worst coach in the division if not league. Baltimore constantly restocks on quality linemen and thats why they are good. Billick was a good coach as is Harbaugh. Everything begins on the line- unless mediocrity is the plan Fans in general are terrible- the majority think they could do whatever they want. Personally, I hope the next group that tries to charge the field gets teargas...and I couldn't care less what ends up happening.
Chump Change Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 The inconvienent truth about the Bills is that they are the laughingstock of the NFL and haven't sniffed the playoffs in nine years. The really inconvenient truth is that in the current era, with a professional, committed front office and owner, this can be turned around in one season. The really, really, inconvenient truth is that this is unlikely (read NOT GOING TO) happen with the team I grew up adoring and at the end of the day, we fans are suckers for accepting this.
Adam Posted December 12, 2008 Author Posted December 12, 2008 The inconvienent truth about the Bills is that they are the laughingstock of the NFL and haven't sniffed the playoffs in nine years. The really inconvenient truth is that in the current era, with a professional, committed front office and owner, this can be turned around in one season. The really, really, inconvenient truth is that this is unlikely (read NOT GOING TO) happen with the team I grew up adoring and at the end of the day, we fans are suckers for accepting this. It really can't be turned around in one season.....everyone says that St. Louis and Baltimore were for their Superbowl runs, but there was a bunch of really good drafts that set up the differential between the bad and superbowl years......our drafts haven't been so good. Now if you didn't factor in that other teams were looking to improve, sure we could be great in one year, but we are pulling from the same group of players. Fix the lines and what we need in other area will become apparent- and I don't think it will be much
fmr60 Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 I believe this is one of the best discussions to come on any board recently. Adam you have hit it on the nail; a good offensive line is imperative. However, I believe both the OL & DL need only one addition respectively. Good coaching can turn mediocre players into good players.
Adam Posted December 13, 2008 Author Posted December 13, 2008 I believe this is one of the best discussions to come on any board recently. Adam you have hit it on the nail; a good offensive line is imperative. However, I believe both the OL & DL need only one addition respectively. Good coaching can turn mediocre players into good players. I think it will take more than one of each- you need to go 8 deep on the defensive line. We aren't close. You probably need to be about 8 deep on the OL as well- we don't even go 4 deep there. Problem about coaching up mediocre players is that other teams do it too and they have more talent
The Big Cat Posted December 13, 2008 Posted December 13, 2008 The inconvienent truth about the Bills is that they are the laughingstock of the NFL and haven't sniffed the playoffs in nine years. The really inconvenient truth is that in the current era, with a professional, committed front office and owner, this can be turned around in one season. The really, really, inconvenient truth is that this is unlikely (read NOT GOING TO) happen with the team I grew up adoring and at the end of the day, we fans are suckers for accepting this. THE laughing stock of the NFL you say? Talk about inferiority complex. You've heard of the Lions, yes? Or the Bangles? How bout the Raiders? The BROOOOOWNS, may be? But us? No. Do casual fans take us seriously? Not for the last 7 weeks they haven't. But to say that we're THE laughing stock, and have been for years is a bit much.
SnakeOiler Posted December 13, 2008 Posted December 13, 2008 1. Most Bills fans look at who the QB and coach is too much2. Most Bills fans are overly optimistic before the season and overly pessimistic when the slightest things go wrong 3. Most Bills fans overvalue big things and undervalue small things...which means they are brainwashed by the idiots at WGR 4. Most Bills fans believe they are the best fans in the NFL....they are no better or worse than anyone else Put a cone at quarterback, I don't care and neither should anyone else. Losman, Edwards, Holcomb, Kelly or Hulk Hogan can't run an efficient, successful offense without a strong line and the fact is we have one of the worst in the league. Want accurate passing? Reduce the pressure on the QB and don't let him get hit every other play. Want a running game? Get some linemen that can zone block and watch Lynch average about 150/game. Its amazing the line pay doesn't get talked about more than it does here- I guess people are so narrow minded that they want to focus on the glamor positions...this isn't fantasy football, but too many have taken that up and forgotten how real football....and the real world works.....stay holed up in your little fantasy world then, and don't worry about what happens on the field. Once the line is fixed, the coaching will look a lot better, whether it is Jauron, Phillips, Williams or Frosty the Snowman. With a good line, any of the coordinators we ran out of town- people that have had success in real towns- Pendry, Henning, Arians and Fairchild...will have their calls work alot better. Instead, we focus on the QB, which has never been the key to our problems....although we like to believe that because it makes us feel we are closer to the playoffs than we are....fact is, we aren't close at all- and we weren't during our 5-1 start against nuts and candy. Fowler, Preston and Walker all should be gone after this season. And anyone who thinks Cowher or Schottenheimer could win with the type of linemen we have are kidding themselves You are totally right. As they say, "IT ISN'T ABOUT THE X's AND O's, IT's ABOUT THE JIMMYs AND JOEs"
BADOLBILZ Posted December 13, 2008 Posted December 13, 2008 THE laughing stock of the NFL you say? Talk about inferiority complex. You've heard of the Lions, yes? Or the Bangles? How bout the Raiders? The BROOOOOWNS, may be? But us? No. Do casual fans take us seriously? Not for the last 7 weeks they haven't. But to say that we're THE laughing stock, and have been for years is a bit much. Yeah, the Lions, Bengals and Raiders are funnier, but the Bills are still pretty funny. Top 5 without any doubt. That image of Marv spraying the turd polish on Jauron from that "Bang" Cartoon was pretty damn funny.
BillsVet Posted December 13, 2008 Posted December 13, 2008 I believe this is one of the best discussions to come on any board recently. Adam you have hit it on the nail; a good offensive line is imperative. However, I believe both the OL & DL need only one addition respectively. Good coaching can turn mediocre players into good players. Jim McNally was recognized as one of the finest OL coaches in the NFL. Even so, he couldn't get Langston Walker to move quicker laterally. He couldn't get Dockery to be more agile. He couldn't prevent Fowler and Preston from being pushed into the backfield on every down. Talent is what this team is in short of supply of at key positions. Good coaching can help make a bad player mediocre, but it can't make a mediocre player good. We're looking at an OL which cannot move well, which is a requirement to run block. In pass blocking, where people are generally holding their own, this OL isn't bad. It still doesn't make up for a lack of mobility.
Dibs Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 It really can't be turned around in one season.....everyone says that St. Louis and Baltimore were for their Superbowl runs, but there was a bunch of really good drafts that set up the differential between the bad and superbowl years......our drafts haven't been so good...... You certainly undervalue the talent on the Bills. This is normal as the players on bad teams are generally under-rated and it is only when the team 'turns things around' that it is realized that the 'below-average' player is all of a sudden a solid starter. This happens a lot.....teams do turn things around in one season. The Patriots did it in 2001.....Their only players of note were Milloy, Law, McGinest, Woody & Bledsoe......and none of those were considered true stars of the day. They drafted Seymour & Light that season(previous drafts not resulting in much). I agree that the Rams drafted well prior to their SB runs but.....they were perennial losers who only succeeded when they brought in a FA star RB, a very good FA OG & found Warner. They were predicted to win about 5 games in 1999. The 2003 Chargers are another example. The only player that they had was LT. Their previous decade of drafts were full of busts. According to every man & his dog they had no talent what-so-ever......yet they turned things around(thanks to Brees & coaching?) in one season to become one of the strongest in the league. In a slightly different way the Titans have 'miraculously' turned things around. They whiffed on their 2 high 1st round picks(Jones#6 & Young#3)......drafted virtually no OLmen.......and used 3 of their last 5 1st round picks on DBs. My point is that you are in fact guilty of suffering from your point #3 "Most Bills fans overvalue big things and undervalue small things..." You certainly seem to be undervaluing the overall talent level on the team. Teams do not need to be studded with star play-makers. As I said, the NFL has shown time & again that teams with 'very little talent' one year can be full of solid-good starters only one or two years later. The players don't all become better in short time.......the team does.
Adam Posted December 14, 2008 Author Posted December 14, 2008 My point is that you are in fact guilty of suffering from your point #3 "Most Bills fans overvalue big things and undervalue small things..." You certainly seem to be undervaluing the overall talent level on the team. Teams do not need to be studded with star play-makers. As I said, the NFL has shown time & again that teams with 'very little talent' one year can be full of solid-good starters only one or two years later. The players don't all become better in short time.......the team does. I look specifically at the lines- I don't think Denney, Kelsay, Walker or Preston are good enough and will short circuit whatever we do. I doubt we can replace both starting lines in one season. I also don't see us grabbing Haynesworth- but if we do and get another good DL it will be a huge step in the right direction.
Dibs Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 I look specifically at the lines- I don't think Denney, Kelsay, Walker or Preston are good enough and will short circuit whatever we do. I doubt we can replace both starting lines in one season. I also don't see us grabbing Haynesworth- but if we do and get another good DL it will be a huge step in the right direction. I think you are probably wrong about Walker......good enough to start IMO. We definitely need an OC & a DE......but assuming we can find them.....and Schobel comes back OK.....the lines(particularly OL) could develop into at least the 'good' range. If the lights can get switched on for TE(ala Brees 3rd year).....and coaching/play-calling improve(replace).......and we can get some relief from injuries......we could turn things around very quick. It is the Bills though, so I don't actually expect any of that to happen.
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