An Inconvenient Truth about the Bills

[Adam]

1. Most Bills fans look at who the QB and coach is too much

2. Most Bills fans are overly optimistic before the season and overly pessimistic when the slightest things go wrong

3. Most Bills fans overvalue big things and undervalue small things...which means they are brainwashed by the idiots at WGR

4. Most Bills fans believe they are the best fans in the NFL....they are no better or worse than anyone else

 

Put a cone at quarterback, I don't care and neither should anyone else. Losman, Edwards, Holcomb, Kelly or Hulk Hogan can't run an efficient, successful offense without a strong line and the fact is we have one of the worst in the league. Want accurate passing? Reduce the pressure on the QB and don't let him get hit every other play. Want a running game? Get some linemen that can zone block and watch Lynch average about 150/game. Its amazing the line pay doesn't get talked about more than it does here- I guess people are so narrow minded that they want to focus on the glamor positions...this isn't fantasy football, but too many have taken that up and forgotten how real football....and the real world works.....stay holed up in your little fantasy world then, and don't worry about what happens on the field.

 

Once the line is fixed, the coaching will look a lot better, whether it is Jauron, Phillips, Williams or Frosty the Snowman. With a good line, any of the coordinators we ran out of town- people that have had success in real towns- Pendry, Henning, Arians and Fairchild...will have their calls work alot better. Instead, we focus on the QB, which has never been the key to our problems....although we like to believe that because it makes us feel we are closer to the playoffs than we are....fact is, we aren't close at all- and we weren't during our 5-1 start against nuts and candy. Fowler, Preston and Walker all should be gone after this season.

 

We also have one of the worst defensive lines in the league. Schobel is a good player, despite being overrated. He's the best defensive end we have. Being elite and being the best a team has, can be skewed by stats. Still, he has trade value- If we could get draft picks, I'd jump at the chance. Williams is not very good- a backup at best. I would trade or release Denney and Kelsay. Want to complain about Poz? What is in front of him?

 

Ignore the glamor positions and stats...if you want a good, tough team, it starts with push on both sides of the line of scrimmage. Fiddle with the other stuff later. Two minute drills are nice, but who cares if it doesn't impact the game. Lots of people were annoyed by that thread started by the Dolphin fan- the fact is, they have been getting guys like Jake Long, Justin Smiley, Samson Satele, Vernon Carey, and good journeymen on their defensive line. We have been getting guys like Roscoe Parrish and been focusing on skill players, letting our lines languish for about a decade.

 

Put Walker, Preston, Fowler, Kelsay, Denney, Schobel, Williams and Fred Jackson on the trading block. Stockpile draftpicks and rebuild the lines. Maybe in 2-3 years we can develop into a true contender. What you see in Miami didn't happen overnight as some would believe- 2-3 years of good drafting, then getting people who knew what to do with it made them better. We aren't close- not by a longshot

 

And anyone who thinks Cowher or Schottenheimer could win with the type of linemen we have are kidding themselves

[erynthered]

I knew it!! The Bills suck because of Al Gore!!

[Beerball]

1. Most Bills fans look at who the QB and coach is too much

2. Most Bills fans are overly optimistic before the season and overly pessimistic when the slightest things go wrong

3. Most Bills fans overvalue big things and undervalue small things...which means they are brainwashed by the idiots at WGR

4. Most Bills fans believe they are the best fans in the NFL....they are no better or worse than anyone else

1. When was the last time that the Bills had a good coach or QB?

2. Hindsight is 20/20. When has it ever ended well?

3. I have no idea WTF this means

4. I know you are but what am I?

[Adam]

1. When was the last time that the Bills had a good coach or QB?

2. Hindsight is 20/20. When has it ever ended well?

3. I have no idea WTF this means

4. I know you are but what am I?

1. I think it was when we also had a good line- remember how quickly Kelly and Levy declined?

2. We have fallen for smoke and mirrors every time- new coach and new QB...status quo on the OL

3. See #2

4. Never said they weren't good fans, but they are like everyone else and can't see the forest for the trees

[AlbanyBill]

Put Walker, Preston, Fowler, Kelsay, Denney, Schobel, Williams and Fred Jackson on the trading block. Stockpile draftpicks and rebuild the lines. Maybe in 2-3 years we can develop into a true contender.

 

 

haha! yeah, just what we need more rebuilding!!! That's worked great for us the last decade...

[Adam]

haha! yeah, just what we need more rebuilding!!! That's worked great for us the last decade...

And you can build around those guys

[Cugalabanza]

Thank you for telling me who I am and what you think I think and why what you think I think is wrong.

 

[Dan]

Thank you for telling me who I am and what you think I think and why what you think I think is wrong.

 

I think I thought I knew what you were thinking, but... wait what was I thinking of posting. Oh who cares.

[Adam]

Thank you for telling me who I am and what you think I think and why what you think I think is wrong.

 

I said most fans, I didn't say gringo starr

[The Big Cat]

And you can build around those guys

 

No, truth be told, we're rebuilding around Stroud, Poz, Mitchell, Whitner, McKelvin, Lynch, Evans, Peters, Dockery, Butler, Walker and Edwards. I don't know why you advocate putting Walker on the trading block, or Williams for that matter. Everyone else you mentioned, with the exception of Freddy has NO value to anyone. If you're going to use THEM on the trading block, you'll be lucky to acquire a handful of late round draft picks.

 

Late round draft picks, are THEY the ones we should be building the team around?

[Adam]

No, truth be told, we're rebuilding around Stroud, Poz, Mitchell, Whitner, McKelvin, Lynch, Evans, Peters, Dockery, Butler, Walker and Edwards. I don't know why you advocate putting Walker on the trading block, or Williams for that matter. Everyone else you mentioned, with the exception of Freddy has NO value to anyone. If you're going to use THEM on the trading block, you'll be lucky to acquire a handful of late round draft picks.

 

Late round draft picks, are THEY the ones we should be building the team around?

If we can't get any picks, just let them go. Walker is useless- he is the same player that was useless in Oakland. AS much as I hate free agency, I would target Haynesworth- him and Stroud in the middle could be the beginning of something we haven't seen the likes of since Phillips and Cotrell were still here.

[The Big Cat]

If we can't get any picks, just let them go. Walker is useless- he is the same player that was useless in Oakland. AS much as I hate free agency, I would target Haynesworth- him and Stroud in the middle could be the beginning of something we haven't seen the likes of since Phillips and Cotrell were still here.

 

 

IIRC, Haynesworth signed a FAT deal last year, so he's unlikely going anywhere in 2009.

 

Walker's really not that bad, you're just being a curmudgeon on that one.

 

Emptying the roster of Denney/Schobel/Kelsay isn't too bad of an idea, but you can't dump them all at once. Same goes for Fowler/Preston. We should DEFINITELY dump Preston, but keep Fowler as a Whittle-like backup.

[Adam]

IIRC, Haynesworth signed a FAT deal last year, so he's unlikely going anywhere in 2009.

 

Walker's really not that bad, you're just being a curmudgeon on that one.

 

Emptying the roster of Denney/Schobel/Kelsay isn't too bad of an idea, but you can't dump them all at once. Same goes for Fowler/Preston. We should DEFINITELY dump Preston, but keep Fowler as a Whittle-like backup.

Don't be using multisyllabic words with me!

 

Walker is too big and too slow. He is strong but not powerful. We need smaller and quicker linemen to employ more zone blocking- which is what Lynch is suited to. If we do that, it will limit him more to one cut and go. I can really see him challenging 2000 yards if we fix this problem. I see Fowler more as a Ken Dorsey like back up- he is great to have as long as he doesn't play

[Beerball]

1. I think it was when we also had a good line- remember how quickly Kelly and Levy declined?

2. We have fallen for smoke and mirrors every time- new coach and new QB...status quo on the OL

3. See #2

4. Never said they weren't good fans, but they are like everyone else and can't see the forest for the trees

OK, now I don't understand #2 which means I don't understand #3.

 

(gringo BTW is well below the average fan)

[Adam]

OK, now I don't understand #2 which means I don't understand #3.

 

(gringo BTW is well below the average fan)

I was talking about how people like to look at the stats and talk about QB's, RB's and WR's instead of the line play which causes it to be how it is....people like objectivity and everything to be on paper in front of them. Line play is far more important

[SuperKillerRobots]

Don't be using multisyllabic words with me!

 

Walker is too big and too slow. He is strong but not powerful. We need smaller and quicker linemen to employ more zone blocking- which is what Lynch is suited to. If we do that, it will limit him more to one cut and go. I can really see him challenging 2000 yards if we fix this problem. I see Fowler more as a Ken Dorsey like back up- he is great to have as long as he doesn't play

 

The zone blocking is a bad idea. As you say, you need smaller, quicker linemen (we've been hearing that about the d line for three years!) to run that scheme, which generates a lot of cutback lanes for the "one-cut" back. I don't think it would be an issue as far as Lynch is concerned (or Jackson for that matter), but we'd need 4 new linemen (we could keep Peters, maybe) to make it work. This is a classic example of liking a scheme to the point that you don't consider the players on the team. Not to mention, how well do little linemen do against the big 3-4 NTs? I think they built the lione with big guys so they wouldn't get destroyed everytime they played a 3-4 team in our division. Now if they were taught a little better how to execute the scheme, it might actaully work.

 

I think the o-line is actaully in a pretty good place talent-wise (except for maybe backups). The d-line is decent, but certainly could use a DE that can take on a meaningful role (at least) on game day. they could also probably use a DT as a rotational guy.

 

The other thing is that there is no way any team gets rid of their top 3 DEs in one offseason. There is no way you can draft and/or sign 3 DEs in one offseason that will be able to pick up the defense and contribute in season 1. That's crazy, especially when you consider that the guys you want to keep would be Copeland Bryan and Chris Ellis.

[RkFast]

I knew it!! The Bills suck because of Al Gore!!

 

Unless paying through the nose to live in huts, eat your front lawn and wipe your ass with leaves is your thing, the whole effing WORLD is going to suck if that windbag gets his way (Gore, not Adam).

 

Oh...on to the topic...yeah...they need better lines. No sh--. But why work on the lines when there are so many failed receivers AKA "shutdown corners" are avialable to draft!!!??!!

[lacoy38]

1. Most Bills fans look at who the QB and coach is too much

2. Most Bills fans are overly optimistic before the season and overly pessimistic when the slightest things go wrong

3. Most Bills fans overvalue big things and undervalue small things...which means they are brainwashed by the idiots at WGR

4. Most Bills fans believe they are the best fans in the NFL....they are no better or worse than anyone else

 

Put a cone at quarterback, I don't care and neither should anyone else. Losman, Edwards, Holcomb, Kelly or Hulk Hogan can't run an efficient, successful offense without a strong line and the fact is we have one of the worst in the league. Want accurate passing? Reduce the pressure on the QB and don't let him get hit every other play. Want a running game? Get some linemen that can zone block and watch Lynch average about 150/game. Its amazing the line pay doesn't get talked about more than it does here- I guess people are so narrow minded that they want to focus on the glamor positions...this isn't fantasy football, but too many have taken that up and forgotten how real football....and the real world works.....stay holed up in your little fantasy world then, and don't worry about what happens on the field.

 

Once the line is fixed, the coaching will look a lot better, whether it is Jauron, Phillips, Williams or Frosty the Snowman. With a good line, any of the coordinators we ran out of town- people that have had success in real towns- Pendry, Henning, Arians and Fairchild...will have their calls work alot better. Instead, we focus on the QB, which has never been the key to our problems....although we like to believe that because it makes us feel we are closer to the playoffs than we are....fact is, we aren't close at all- and we weren't during our 5-1 start against nuts and candy. Fowler, Preston and Walker all should be gone after this season.

 

We also have one of the worst defensive lines in the league. Schobel is a good player, despite being overrated. He's the best defensive end we have. Being elite and being the best a team has, can be skewed by stats. Still, he has trade value- If we could get draft picks, I'd jump at the chance. Williams is not very good- a backup at best. I would trade or release Denney and Kelsay. Want to complain about Poz? What is in front of him?

 

Ignore the glamor positions and stats...if you want a good, tough team, it starts with push on both sides of the line of scrimmage. Fiddle with the other stuff later. Two minute drills are nice, but who cares if it doesn't impact the game. Lots of people were annoyed by that thread started by the Dolphin fan- the fact is, they have been getting guys like Jake Long, Justin Smiley, Samson Satele, Vernon Carey, and good journeymen on their defensive line. We have been getting guys like Roscoe Parrish and been focusing on skill players, letting our lines languish for about a decade.

 

Put Walker, Preston, Fowler, Kelsay, Denney, Schobel, Williams and Fred Jackson on the trading block. Stockpile draftpicks and rebuild the lines. Maybe in 2-3 years we can develop into a true contender. What you see in Miami didn't happen overnight as some would believe- 2-3 years of good drafting, then getting people who knew what to do with it made them better. We aren't close- not by a longshot

 

And anyone who thinks Cowher or Schottenheimer could win with the type of linemen we have are kidding themselves

i would say that a starting center is our biggest need along with a pass catching tight end. the problem is that its not going to be easy the only 2 FA centers are Saturday and Birk and their not going anywhere so we have to draft a center. And the problem with that is we absolutley SUCK at drafting O linemen.

One guy who looks good is Alex Mack out of Cal (plus he played with Lynch!) but with a 1st round pick in the 8-12 range he's not good value, and he won't be there in the 2nd.

Overall i agree a good O line that can establish a running game would give trent time to find WRs and become the Pro Bowl QB i hope he can be

[Adam]

The zone blocking is a bad idea. As you say, you need smaller, quicker linemen (we've been hearing that about the d line for three years!) to run that scheme, which generates a lot of cutback lanes for the "one-cut" back. I don't think it would be an issue as far as Lynch is concerned (or Jackson for that matter), but we'd need 4 new linemen (we could keep Peters, maybe) to make it work. This is a classic example of liking a scheme to the point that you don't consider the players on the team. Not to mention, how well do little linemen do against the big 3-4 NTs? I think they built the lione with big guys so they wouldn't get destroyed everytime they played a 3-4 team in our division. Now if they were taught a little better how to execute the scheme, it might actaully work.

 

I think the o-line is actaully in a pretty good place talent-wise (except for maybe backups). The d-line is decent, but certainly could use a DE that can take on a meaningful role (at least) on game day. they could also probably use a DT as a rotational guy.

 

The other thing is that there is no way any team gets rid of their top 3 DEs in one offseason. There is no way you can draft and/or sign 3 DEs in one offseason that will be able to pick up the defense and contribute in season 1. That's crazy, especially when you consider that the guys you want to keep would be Copeland Bryan and Chris Ellis.

Who said anything about replacing them all in one season- I am willing to take a step back from the horrible place we are, so we can take multiple steps forward in the next few seasons. Don't fool yourself into thinking we are close enough. We are close to 9-7, not 10-6 with tie breakers over good teams- that is a huge difference.

 

In a man blocking scheme, running backs like Lynch and MaGahee will dance too much. Make them be decisive and watch what happens. I'm not worried about their size in that scheme either as you get a lot of combo blocks to offset the size differential

[Cugalabanza]

(gringo BTW is well below the average fan)

That's just great! I was looking forward to a nice relaxing weekend. Now I have to start working on a plot to destroy you. Thanks a bunch, Beerbelly!