The most frustrating thing about our playoff drought

[Dibs]

To me, the most frustrating thing about our playoff drought is that in many of the years we have finished in the 7-9 to 9-7 range, which has dropped us out of the top 5-10 draft picks. So, for example, we get a Marshawn Lynch instead of an Adrian Peterson (not that I don't like Lynch, but Peterson is a potential Hall of Famer if he stays healthy).

 

If we're gonna suck, I wouldn't mind sucking just a little bit more to get an elite player in the draft.

Picking higher in the draft doesn't mean you get a better player.......just a theoretically better chance of getting a better player. There are busts & stars that are selected all through the 1st round.

[Big Turk]

Wilson only cares enough to make sure the fans keep coming back because the team is "close". As long as fans keep filling the stadium, little will change...he actually laughed and thought it was funny how bad the team was playing....

[Dibs]

...he actually laughed and thought it was funny how bad the team was playing....

Well it is laughable isn't it? The team is a joke at the moment isn't it?

[VJ91]

To me, the most frustrating thing about our playoff drought is that in many of the years we have finished in the 7-9 to 9-7 range, which has dropped us out of the top 5-10 draft picks. So, for example, we get a Marshawn Lynch instead of an Adrian Peterson (not that I don't like Lynch, but Peterson is a potential Hall of Famer if he stays healthy).

 

If we're gonna suck, I wouldn't mind sucking just a little bit more to get an elite player in the draft.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, and every fan of every team can do this. But since you brought up the Bills draft since the non-playoffs steak began in 2000, take a look at just some of the offensive linemen, still starting today, that were on the board at the time the Bills drafted other players in the first round - in or out of the top 10 picks:

 

2000: Bills drafted Eric Flowers, DE #26 Overall: Still on the Board:

#38 Marvel Smith LT - Steelers

#44 Chad Clifton LT - Packers

 

2001: Bills drafted Nate Clements, CB #21 Overall: Quality Pick, no complaints.

 

2002: Bills drafted Mike Williams, OT #4 Overall: Still on the Board:

#7 Bryant McKinnie LT - Vikings

#10 Levi Jones LT - Bengals

#29 Marc Colombo - RT - Bears (Starting now for the Cowboys)

 

2003: Bills drafted Willis McGahee, RB #23 Overall: Still on the Board:

#26 Kwame Harris RT - 49ers - (Starting now for the Raiders)

#33 Eric Steinbach LG - Bengals - (Starting now for the Browns)

#37 Jonathan Stinchcomb RT - Saints

 

2004: Bills drafted Lee Evans WR #13: Quality Pick, no complaints

2004: Bills drafted J.P. Losman QB #22: Still on the Board:

#34 Chris Snee RG - Giants

 

2005: Bills drafted Roscoe Parrish #55 Overall (No 1st round pick): Still on the Board:

#64 Adam Terry RT - Ravens

#81 Richie Incognito RG - Rams

 

2006: Bills drafted Donte Whitner SS # 8 Overall (Quality Pick?..not yet) Still on the Board:

#23 Davin Joseph RG - Bucs (Taking Joseph at #8 would have been a major reach, but was paying Dockery 7 Million a year a few months before this draft any less crazy for Levy??)

 

2007: Bills drafted Marshawn Lynch RB#12 Quality Pick, no complaints

 

2008: Bills drafted Leodis McKelvin #11 CB (Quality Pick?.. probably, but not ready to start), Still on the Board:

#12 Ryan Clady LT - Broncos - starting left tackle as a rookie.

#15 Branden Albert G - Chiefs - Made the switch to left tackle, starting as a rookie.

#21 Sam Baker LT - Falcons - starting left tackle as a rookie.

 

Too bad the Bills never made the OL a priority. Obviously there were plenty of starters sitting there just waiting to be drafted by Buffalo these past 8 years!

[lets_go_bills]

To me, the most frustrating thing about our playoff drought is that in many of the years we have finished in the 7-9 to 9-7 range, which has dropped us out of the top 5-10 draft picks. So, for example, we get a Marshawn Lynch instead of an Adrian Peterson (not that I don't like Lynch, but Peterson is a potential Hall of Famer if he stays healthy).

 

If we're gonna suck, I wouldn't mind sucking just a little bit more to get an elite player in the draft.

 

In terms of purely draft position, drafting in the middle is best. You're still getting top talent and a good shot at the guy you want while not having to pay the exorberant contracts that top 5/top 10 guys get.

[spartacus]

Hindsight is 20/20, and every fan of every team can do this. But since you brought up the Bills draft since the non-playoffs steak began in 2000, take a look at just some of the offensive linemen, still starting today, that were on the board at the time the Bills drafted other players in the first round - in or out of the top 10 picks:

 

2000: Bills drafted Eric Flowers, DE #26 Overall: Still on the Board:

#38 Marvel Smith LT - Steelers

#44 Chad Clifton LT - Packers

 

2001: Bills drafted Nate Clements, CB #21 Overall: Quality Pick, no complaints.

 

2002: Bills drafted Mike Williams, OT #4 Overall: Still on the Board:

#7 Bryant McKinnie LT - Vikings

#10 Levi Jones LT - Bengals

#29 Marc Colombo - RT - Bears (Starting now for the Cowboys)

 

2003: Bills drafted Willis McGahee, RB #23 Overall: Still on the Board:

#26 Kwame Harris RT - 49ers - (Starting now for the Raiders)

#33 Eric Steinbach LG - Bengals - (Starting now for the Browns)

#37 Jonathan Stinchcomb RT - Saints

 

2004: Bills drafted Lee Evans WR #13: Quality Pick, no complaints

2004: Bills drafted J.P. Losman QB #22: Still on the Board:

#34 Chris Snee RG - Giants

 

2005: Bills drafted Roscoe Parrish #55 Overall (No 1st round pick): Still on the Board:

#64 Adam Terry RT - Ravens

#81 Richie Incognito RG - Rams

 

2006: Bills drafted Donte Whitner SS # 8 Overall (Quality Pick?..not yet) Still on the Board:

#23 Davin Joseph RG - Bucs (Taking Joseph at #8 would have been a major reach, but was paying Dockery 7 Million a year a few months before this draft any less crazy for Levy??)

 

2007: Bills drafted Marshawn Lynch RB#12 Quality Pick, no complaints

 

2008: Bills drafted Leodis McKelvin #11 CB (Quality Pick?.. probably, but not ready to start), Still on the Board:

#12 Ryan Clady LT - Broncos - starting left tackle as a rookie.

#15 Branden Albert G - Chiefs - Made the switch to left tackle, starting as a rookie.

#21 Sam Baker LT - Falcons - starting left tackle as a rookie.

 

Too bad the Bills never made the OL a priority. Obviously there were plenty of starters sitting there just waiting to be drafted by Buffalo these past 8 years!

 

in 2004, the Bills should have taken Vince Wilfork instead of Evans and highlights the problem with the Bills arrogance in not building the trenches.

 

Evans has his moments. Wilfork would have solidified a sesive like run defense, pushed the pocket to allow our DEs better success and allowed the Bills the flexiblity to play both a 3-4 and 4-3.

 

 

The same applies to the Whitner pick. After passing on Wilfork and still not solving the DT problem, the bills again passed on a Pro Bowl DT in Ngata.

 

The Bills waste too many premium picks on small players and ignore the trenches which are the core of any team.

 

The other important element missing from your anaysis is the number of picks (and potential starters) wasted in moving up to draft many of these slugs (JP, McCargo, Denney, POZ, etc)

[Sisyphean Bills]

Hindsight is 20/20, and every fan of every team can do this. But since you brought up the Bills draft since the non-playoffs steak began in 2000, take a look at just some of the offensive linemen, still starting today, that were on the board at the time the Bills drafted other players in the first round - in or out of the top 10 picks:

 

2000: Bills drafted Eric Flowers, DE #26 Overall: Still on the Board:

#38 Marvel Smith LT - Steelers

#44 Chad Clifton LT - Packers

 

2001: Bills drafted Nate Clements, CB #21 Overall: Quality Pick, no complaints.

 

2002: Bills drafted Mike Williams, OT #4 Overall: Still on the Board:

#7 Bryant McKinnie LT - Vikings

#10 Levi Jones LT - Bengals

#29 Marc Colombo - RT - Bears (Starting now for the Cowboys)

 

2003: Bills drafted Willis McGahee, RB #23 Overall: Still on the Board:

#26 Kwame Harris RT - 49ers - (Starting now for the Raiders)

#33 Eric Steinbach LG - Bengals - (Starting now for the Browns)

#37 Jonathan Stinchcomb RT - Saints

 

2004: Bills drafted Lee Evans WR #13: Quality Pick, no complaints

2004: Bills drafted J.P. Losman QB #22: Still on the Board:

#34 Chris Snee RG - Giants

 

2005: Bills drafted Roscoe Parrish #55 Overall (No 1st round pick): Still on the Board:

#64 Adam Terry RT - Ravens

#81 Richie Incognito RG - Rams

 

2006: Bills drafted Donte Whitner SS # 8 Overall (Quality Pick?..not yet) Still on the Board:

#23 Davin Joseph RG - Bucs (Taking Joseph at #8 would have been a major reach, but was paying Dockery 7 Million a year a few months before this draft any less crazy for Levy??)

 

2007: Bills drafted Marshawn Lynch RB#12 Quality Pick, no complaints

 

2008: Bills drafted Leodis McKelvin #11 CB (Quality Pick?.. probably, but not ready to start), Still on the Board:

#12 Ryan Clady LT - Broncos - starting left tackle as a rookie.

#15 Branden Albert G - Chiefs - Made the switch to left tackle, starting as a rookie.

#21 Sam Baker LT - Falcons - starting left tackle as a rookie.

 

Too bad the Bills never made the OL a priority. Obviously there were plenty of starters sitting there just waiting to be drafted by Buffalo these past 8 years!

About Clady: The dude is a beast in the running game and has only given up 1/2 a sack all year. The Bills RT can't even get out of his stance.

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

since arizona is now in the playoffs that leaves us and detroit... being an 'ILLS fan, thats not something i am proud of when its going to be the new stat announcers have to bring up just about every upcoming game... i would say thats the most frusterating thing.

[Picnic Table F'er]

and Donte Whitner (in the top 10).

 

LOL. Wut?

 

People have the funniest things in their brains sometimes.

[Thoner7]

Im so sick of people always saying bad teams make bad picks...for one, predicting a players success in the NFL is no exact science, otherwise people like Tom Brady wouldnt drop to the 6th round while other players like Ryan Leaf go 2nd overall.

 

I am defintiely tired of hearing about how dumb we were for taking Mike Williams. First off, he was graded as a top 5 player...wasnt like he was rated to go in the 3rd round and we took in the top 5. Second, we desperately needed O-Line help, so we took the best rated guy available...nor rated by the Bills, but rated by everyone...fans, other teams, that loser Kiper, etc. At the time we made the pick he was a stud pick...If we didnt pick him, he would have gone off the board on the next freaking pick...why you may ask, BECAUSE EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WAS THAT GOOD...not JUST the Bills.

 

Truth is, the FANS would have been in an uproar if we didnt take this guy with that pick, because he was rated to be that good and it was our BIGGEST need in that draft. Now that the pick is a bust, the fans blame the front office as IF they knew all along this guy was a loser.

 

So whoever drafted him was about to make a blunder...it just so happened he filled our biggest need and was available at our pick, so we were the unlucky ones who got him.

 

Same with Matt Millen getting flack over taking Charles Rogers...at the time he took him, he was considered the BEST athlete in the draft and the BEST WR prospect since Randy Moss...ANY other NFL team would have taken him there if they needed a WR...Point is EVERYONE was fooled and it happens EVERY year in EVERY draft...

 

No. Bryant McKinnie was the top rated O lineman that year. He was everywhere pre-draft, including Letterman, and all the gurus liked him. He hasn't been great, but he is a starting left tackle in the NFL, for a top rushing team, and not out of football like Willaims. The correct pick for a O lineman was McKinnie, not Willaims.

[Koufax]

6-10 will get us a good pick.

 

6-10 will get the stench of losing and not knowing how to win games a little deeper into the skin of the many young players who will be returning. I'm sure as hell hoping we finish 9-7 and pick 18th or so, but if we lose another game I will hope for 8-8, and if another 7-9. Winning football games is much more important than a draft spot or two.

[Sisyphean Bills]

LOL. Wut?

 

People have the funniest things in their brains sometimes.

What's wrong with your brain? Donte Whitner was the 8th pick in the 2006 draft. That means he was picked in the top 10. Get it?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

lol...yeah, well EVERY GM in the league would have taken Mike Williams as the first OL player that year...so it wasnt because our GM's decision was bad, its that this player was rated by everyone that high...the player fooled everyone.

 

Thats my point...too much blame is assessed years later for bad picks, when everyone thought that pick was a good pick when they made it. Now, if a team gambles on a pick, takes a player too early, takes a player they dont really need, pass a player they should have taken that was a need, trades away their whole draft (see Mike Ditka), etc., then you can start pointing fingers at the bad decisions.

 

Millen takes a lot of flack over Rogers, but man, that kid was lights out in college, most athletic player in the draft, said to be the best WR propsect since Moss. Every GM in the league takes Rogers there...not Millens fault...everyone was fooled. Not saying he didnt make other bad choices, but man, GM's get killed when they get unlucky in a situation like that when just about any GM in the league past or present makes the same decision.

 

Not all of us wanted Mike Williams that year. Some of us wanted Bryant McKinnie.

[Alphadawg7]

Not all of us wanted Mike Williams that year. Some of us wanted Bryant McKinnie.

 

My point is being missed...regardless of the McKinnie vs Williams debate...someone WAS goint to MIST on Williams! NO WAY he falls out of the top 15, guarantee...in fact Minn takes Williams if we take McKinnie. So I was only trying to illustrate that it is so easy as a fan to sit back and say the GM makes a blunder years later, but at the time of the pick they are drafting based on way better information than we as fans have and they are fooled by a players potential as easy as we are. McKinnie had character question marks and thats one thing the Bills have consistently tried to stay away from, so they graded Williams higher than McKinnie...

 

They were wrong, but so were a lot of other people...

 

Same thing with Rogers in Detroit...this kid was rated as the best WR prospect since Randy Moss...Det needed playmakers and a WR, so they took him. He was a bust...but not because Millen saw something in Rogers no one else saw, he saw the same potential that every draft analyze saw...he was the best WR prospect in the draft, best overall athlete, electric in college, and a major playmaker. We were all fooled...

 

Now you can argue about picks like when we trade into first round to grab McCargo which was a major reach. Trading up to get Poz was seen as a brilliant move at the time, so I do not fault the FO because Poz hasnt lived up to the hype...but this whole board was calling for us take Poz, some even saying we should take him with our original 1st round pick.

 

You can argue the Whitner pick...I say the jury is still out on this one, but as of now it looks like the Ngata pick was the way to go, and most thought that at the time too (including yours truly).

 

So, to look back and say "this guy was still on the board" isnt so cut and dry. Some of our bad picks were good picks when they were made...some were bad picks right from the start...

[bull7734]

one pick shy of patrick willis, but we had nagota and chose donte instead even though dt was our biggest need, by the way he is easily top three in the league at his position

[Gordio]

Wrong again-Since you keep citing Kiper, you should look at his 2002 book 1st. Kiper's mock draft: Bryant McKinnie 5th to San Diego, Mike Williams 9th to Jacksonville. You are right, "Where Kiper had the player rated in terms of overall players is not the same as where a guy is rated to be drafted." Williams was Kiper's 8th best, but expected to go a slot BELOW that by Kiper.

 

What really pisses me off in that draft is Van Pelt led the bills on an unbelievable comeback over Carolina that year. I think it was a 20pt come back. If we lose we pick in Carolina;'s spot, they pick in our spot(the 4th pick). The question is does the silver fox take Peppers or does he still take Williams?

[GG]

It's been a while since we had a good "winning hurts the franchise" discussion.

[thewildrabbit]

Im so sick of people always saying bad teams make bad picks...for one, predicting a players success in the NFL is no exact science, otherwise people like Tom Brady wouldnt drop to the 6th round while other players like Ryan Leaf go 2nd overall.

 

I am defintiely tired of hearing about how dumb we were for taking Mike Williams. First off, he was graded as a top 5 player...wasnt like he was rated to go in the 3rd round and we took in the top 5. Second, we desperately needed O-Line help, so we took the best rated guy available...nor rated by the Bills, but rated by everyone...fans, other teams, that loser Kiper, etc. At the time we made the pick he was a stud pick...If we didnt pick him, he would have gone off the board on the next freaking pick...why you may ask, BECAUSE EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WAS THAT GOOD...not JUST the Bills.

 

Truth is, the FANS would have been in an uproar if we didnt take this guy with that pick, because he was rated to be that good and it was our BIGGEST need in that draft. Now that the pick is a bust, the fans blame the front office as IF they knew all along this guy was a loser.

 

So whoever drafted him was about to make a blunder...it just so happened he filled our biggest need and was available at our pick, so we were the unlucky ones who got him.

 

Same with Matt Millen getting flack over taking Charles Rogers...at the time he took him, he was considered the BEST athlete in the draft and the BEST WR prospect since Randy Moss...ANY other NFL team would have taken him there if they needed a WR...Point is EVERYONE was fooled and it happens EVERY year in EVERY draft...

Not EVERYONE is fooled, Bill Polian took Payton Manning and the Chargers took Ryan Leaf next. In 1999 many Colt fans watching the draft live no doubt anticipated the selection next of the still-available Ricky Williams. But Polian shocked almost everyone by drafting Edgerrin James instead.He took Joseph Addai in 06, Bob Sanders in 04, Dwight Freeney in 02. Meanwhile drafting in the later rounds every year.

 

Lets face it that the Bills had a genius in Bill Polian and Ralph Wilson found a reason to fire him

[bills_fan]

Hindsight is 20/20, and every fan of every team can do this. But since you brought up the Bills draft since the non-playoffs steak began in 2000, take a look at just some of the offensive linemen, still starting today, that were on the board at the time the Bills drafted other players in the first round - in or out of the top 10 picks:

 

2000: Bills drafted Eric Flowers, DE #26 Overall: Still on the Board:

#38 Marvel Smith LT - Steelers

#44 Chad Clifton LT - Packers

 

2001: Bills drafted Nate Clements, CB #21 Overall: Quality Pick, no complaints.

 

2002: Bills drafted Mike Williams, OT #4 Overall: Still on the Board:

#7 Bryant McKinnie LT - Vikings

#10 Levi Jones LT - Bengals

#29 Marc Colombo - RT - Bears (Starting now for the Cowboys)

 

2003: Bills drafted Willis McGahee, RB #23 Overall: Still on the Board:

#26 Kwame Harris RT - 49ers - (Starting now for the Raiders)

#33 Eric Steinbach LG - Bengals - (Starting now for the Browns)

#37 Jonathan Stinchcomb RT - Saints

 

2004: Bills drafted Lee Evans WR #13: Quality Pick, no complaints

2004: Bills drafted J.P. Losman QB #22: Still on the Board:

#34 Chris Snee RG - Giants

 

2005: Bills drafted Roscoe Parrish #55 Overall (No 1st round pick): Still on the Board:

#64 Adam Terry RT - Ravens

#81 Richie Incognito RG - Rams

 

2006: Bills drafted Donte Whitner SS # 8 Overall (Quality Pick?..not yet) Still on the Board:

#23 Davin Joseph RG - Bucs (Taking Joseph at #8 would have been a major reach, but was paying Dockery 7 Million a year a few months before this draft any less crazy for Levy??)

 

2007: Bills drafted Marshawn Lynch RB#12 Quality Pick, no complaints

 

2008: Bills drafted Leodis McKelvin #11 CB (Quality Pick?.. probably, but not ready to start), Still on the Board:

#12 Ryan Clady LT - Broncos - starting left tackle as a rookie.

#15 Branden Albert G - Chiefs - Made the switch to left tackle, starting as a rookie.

#21 Sam Baker LT - Falcons - starting left tackle as a rookie.

 

Too bad the Bills never made the OL a priority. Obviously there were plenty of starters sitting there just waiting to be drafted by Buffalo these past 8 years!

 

 

Let me add that in 2001 the Bills picked 14th, traded down with TB to 21 to get Clements. The guy who went 17th....Steve Hutchinson.

[KD in CA]

The Bills waste too many premium picks on small players and ignore the trenches which are the core of any team.

 

+1

 

The Bills are the kings of drafting 5'10" guys.