VJ91 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Why did Turk Shoenert give up on all of his early season ideas? What happened to moving Evans around to free him up? What happened to running the ball on second and 10 for a change, or running draw plays or screens on third and 6 just to change things up? What happened to finding different ways of getting Parish the ball? What happened to throwing to the tight end more? Evan Losman should be able to throw a 5 yard out to Royal or Fine or Shouman on first and 10! How in God's name did Turk revert back to bringing in two tight ends and a full back to advertise the run, and going empty back field to advertise the pass, like all the OC's before him in the past 10 years??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflobarry Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Why did Turk Shoenert give up on all of his early season ideas? What happened to moving Evans around to free him up? What happened to running the ball on second and 10 for a change, or running draw plays or screens on third and 6 just to change things up? What happened to finding different ways of getting Parish the ball? What happened to throwing to the tight end more? Evan Losman should be able to throw a 5 yard out to Royal or Fine or Shouman on first and 10! How in God's name did Turk revert back to bringing in two tight ends and a full back to advertise the run, and going empty back field to advertise the pass, like all the OC's before him in the past 10 years??? I've been wondering the same thing. Early in the year, even though we now know that we were playing poor teams, Turk was doing a lot of creative stuff. Now, I see empty backfield on third and one and think "why totally tip your hand like that? Why not keep a back in at least to make the defense THINK you might run (vs Teeing off on the QB). I haven't a clue, but I thought he was super early in the year, and now it looks like Fairchild 2.0....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Why did Turk Shoenert give up on all of his early season ideas? What happened to moving Evans around to free him up? What happened to running the ball on second and 10 for a change, or running draw plays or screens on third and 6 just to change things up? What happened to finding different ways of getting Parish the ball? What happened to throwing to the tight end more? Evan Losman should be able to throw a 5 yard out to Royal or Fine or Shouman on first and 10! How in God's name did Turk revert back to bringing in two tight ends and a full back to advertise the run, and going empty back field to advertise the pass, like all the OC's before him in the past 10 years??? I was wondering the same thing. Its almost like after the winning streak he thought he should go more conventional and prove it can work that way. I don't understand it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Haven't seen a RB screen to Fred Jackson in over a month I believe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShipUPride Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I started wondering this in about week 7. I, personally, think that it has more to do with what Jauron allows him to call. Dick likes to play close games... he is fine with "being in it in the 4th quarter" then letting his defense make a play that allows us to kick the game winning field goal. The problem is, Dick has coached so many bad teams that simply "being in it in the 4th quarter" is how he is used to succeeding (if you can call it that). I really believe that Dick thought that Turk was taking too many chances on offense, and putting his defense in a position to play from behind. I just can't imagine 2 OC's back to back doing the exact same stupid things without their boss being part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Turk Shonert should be replaced after the season is over and a new OC brought in with a different offensive style. As of late the O-line has played better and there is absolutely no reason considering the quality RB's we have to play as poorly on offense as the Buffalo Bills are playing. Bottom line, Turk Shonert and the offense has to go or the head coach has to go, one or the other, possibly both, that or the Bills faithfull could abandon ship at a very bad time for the organization. The Bills front office better think real seriously about what they do next because the next move could make or break the Buffalo Bills. You want to lose the Buffalo Bills? I don't, so we better make some f$@king changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I also think its worth noting that Turk Schonert was a huge gamble as an OC - even if it wasn't portrayed as such. The guy had been a QB Coach in this League for 15 years and as near as I can tell this was the first sniff that he's gotten of an offensive coordinator position. So its not like this guy was the proverbial "hot young assistant". Right now the entire offense is self-destructing, and I think that makes every aspect of it, the talent, the play-calling, you name it look bad. But I think the bottom line conclusion has to be that it is a systemic failure - and not any one trouble spot that can be easily corrected. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 When the losing streak started Turk was getting criticized for being too creative. Now he is not creative enough. The problem on offense has been QB play - plain and simple. TE was on fire early in the season - executing crisply, with confidence, and the team had confidence in him. Then the turnover festival started with him. TE no longer plays with confidence or executes crisply. That, combined with the need to play JP who has never shown the ability to make good decisions or execute consistently, and you get bland offensive game plans and simple approaches, the hope being "at least lets limit the turnovers". Not saying I like it, but you need a QB performing well to score points in this league consistently. If TE plays better, this offense will look very different - certainly good enough to have won the last two games and the Cleveland game as well. He and JP, however, have combined to suck the life out of any offensive game plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I started wondering this in about week 7. I, personally, think that it has more to do with what Jauron allows him to call. Dick likes to play close games... he is fine with "being in it in the 4th quarter" then letting his defense make a play that allows us to kick the game winning field goal. The problem is, Dick has coached so many bad teams that simply "being in it in the 4th quarter" is how he is used to succeeding (if you can call it that). I really believe that Dick thought that Turk was taking too many chances on offense, and putting his defense in a position to play from behind. I just can't imagine 2 OC's back to back doing the exact same stupid things without their boss being part of the problem. Last season, many of us thought Fairchild was the reason the offense was held back. Now that we're seeing the same thing happen with Turk, I have to believe it's not just an OC thing. It's the HC deciding to do just what you're referring to. DJ's last three OC's (Crowton, Fairchild, Schonert) were all poor. Is the poor offense related to OC's, or DJ's influence? I tend to think it's a combination of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Last season, many of us thought Fairchild was the reason the offense was held back. Now that we're seeing the same thing happen with Turk, I have to believe it's not just an OC thing. It's the HC deciding to do just what you're referring to. DJ's last three OC's (Crowton, Fairchild, Schonert) were all poor. Is the poor offense related to OC's, or DJ's influence? I tend to think it's a combination of both. I tend to think Jauron has very little to do with the offense, he's not an offensive minded coach and knows better than to stick his nose where it doesn't belong. I'm sure he's had some input like trying to run the ball more or better, but as far as the play calling and the game planning I believe he lets his coaches do their jobs. DJ's influence or lack there of has very little to do with our problems on offense in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Shhhhhh! Damnit. He's waiting for the right time to unleash our "real offense". This is just to throw everyone off. In the 4th quarter of our last game you will see some amazing sh--. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 They all seem to have the head up the ass problem . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 When the losing streak started Turk was getting criticized for being too creative. Now he is not creative enough. The problem on offense has been QB play - plain and simple. TE was on fire early in the season - executing crisply, with confidence, and the team had confidence in him. Then the turnover festival started with him. TE no longer plays with confidence or executes crisply. That, combined with the need to play JP who has never shown the ability to make good decisions or execute consistently, and you get bland offensive game plans and simple approaches, the hope being "at least lets limit the turnovers". Not saying I like it, but you need a QB performing well to score points in this league consistently. If TE plays better, this offense will look very different - certainly good enough to have won the last two games and the Cleveland game as well. He and JP, however, have combined to suck the life out of any offensive game plan. Our offensive stradegy is the reason TE has been beat into the ground. At one point in the season the 49ers held the league lead in having their QB sacked and theres a good reason, they run the some F#$KING OFFENSE!!! Sure you can blame some of this on TE, because of the concussion he sustained while trying to run this BS offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Not that it "proves" anything but Steve Fairchild's team went 6-6 this season and is bowl eligible. Not bad for "the worst offensive football mind ever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Not that it "proves" anything but Steve Fairchild's team went 6-6 this season and is bowl eligible. Not bad for "the worst offensive football mind ever." I am not sure we could win a bowl game . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I think it's also a lack of talent. Evans is a good receiver, but he is not putting up #1 WR numbers. For $9+ million a year, he should be putting up Top 5 WR catches. Evans needs help to take the pressure off of him because he can't shake the double teams. Reed is a good slot receiver, but is not a #2 receiver. Reed is very valuable with getting the short yards needed for first downs and making key blocks, but he will never put up #2 WR numbers. Parrish has been dropping everything thrown to him since he's returned from thumb surgery. Hardy is going through NFL growing pains, banking on a rookie WR to make an impact was a huge mistake. Steve Johnson looks better than Hardy at this point, but is only getting the ball thrown to him once or twice a game, sometimes none at all. Robert Royal has been inconsistent between dropped passes and fumbles, Fine & Schoumann are good backup TE's but we need a real starting TE. Our O-Line has been shaky, Walker & Peters have given up the most sacks and have been penalized the most. Our Center sucks. Lynch are Jackson are good RB's. Edwards should get another full year as starting QB, it's too early to give up on him. It would be great if we could land Greg Jennings from GB in the offseason, but I don't know if Ralph or Bills management would want to shell out a ton of dough for 2 WR's. Jennings would bring a huge boost to this offense and help Evans get open more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 One of Turk's big changes was to call plays from the sideline. This was supposed to give him a better feel for the players and what they could or couldn't due durring the game. Then Trent seemed to stop looking downfield. On the sidelines, it was hard for Turk to know if the receivers downfield were open or not. So Turk moved up to the booth. This does not excuse some of the formation or playcall issues. It does show that Turk has abandoned one of the philisophical changes he wanted to bring to playcalling. Maybe he abandoned them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinBeforeYouLeave Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I am not sure we could win a bowl game . My thoughts exactly. I think they'd have a tough time beating Syracuse at this point. I know this means NOTHING, but I sat on a plane ride next to Schonert back in 2000 or so. For what it's worth, he seemed very level headed, and we talked about approach, from dumb fan to guy that was involved... and he was candid and patient with me. This doesn't mean he's even marginally qualified for the job, but he sounded like Jaws, placing an emphasis on getting Johnson's comfort zone established, etc. etc. He also admitted Johnson was a long-shot work in progress. I bet they know what to do, just can't implement it. That must be the difference between the not so good and the very good, knowing the right approach, and getting it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 In the beginning Trent threw some WR screens, and I haven't seen Trent on one WR screen since the Raiders game. JP was allowed to throw a few. Also, in the KC game we did roll-outs with Trent, haven't seen it since. Maybe they are trying to be creative so the next game they are conventional and beat the other team mentally. LOL The reality is, you want to dictate to the opposing D the looks they see and CREATE mis-matches. For that reason alone Turk and the coaching crew has to go. Other than the KC game I haven't seen it. They even threw in a double play-out out of the shot-gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Last season, many of us thought Fairchild was the reason the offense was held back. Now that we're seeing the same thing happen with Turk, I have to believe it's not just an OC thing. It's the HC deciding to do just what you're referring to. DJ's last three OC's (Crowton, Fairchild, Schonert) were all poor. Is the poor offense related to OC's, or DJ's influence? I tend to think it's a combination of both. I am leaning towards this thought process as well. If you recall, Fairchild's play calling and the offense in general was quite successful in the second half of his first year here and then tanked in the beginning of his second. We see the same pattern with Schonert - good first few games and sudden regression thereafter. During the offseason, I did not see enough reason to expect a better offense than the putrid one we had last year as we did not have any proven additions on the O side. The first few games made me think there is hope but then we got back to (or worse than) where we were at this time last year. It has to point back to the HC. Despite not having a cadre of top-notch WRs, I think we have adequate talent on the O-side to do better on that side of the ball than we have been seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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