GG Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Any way you could re-phrase that? I'm not following. The idea isn't to prove anything, its just to show nobody knows where Jauron will go from here. Jauron COULD be Kotite. He also COULD be Vermeil. Regardless, his job performance thus far gains some perspective from this in my opinion, and doesn't necessarily justify a firing. That's why a trajectory is very important. You generally would give more latitude to a coach with only 20 wins in first three years if he got 3, 7, 10 wins over that 3 yr span, than 7, 7, 6. No? Vermeil 1.0 - 4,5,9 Vermeil 2.0 - 5,4,13 Walsh - 2,6,13 Jauron - 7,7,? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 The defense is ranked 11 in ypg allowed. Ahead of Carolina, Indy, Miami, ne*, Bears, Jests, Falcons.In passing D they rank 12. Carolina jumps us. Not so bad for a 6-7 team. I would give you more but the site has locked up on me. Bills are #12 in fewest points allowed. That's the real test. #12 is good. Defense is good. Offense is bad. I don't like some of the defensive play calling either and would rather see more aggressive blitzing/fake blitzing stuff. If we did that, the turn overs would follow. Remember Brett Favre's pick and Phillip Rivers' fumble. But all in all, a good defense. Not great, but good enough with a decent offense to be a playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 That is an easy question. 3 years. It is interesting but in today's world where win now is very important, I think you should give every coach 3 years to see how he is. If he is not improving a change would be recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poeticlaw Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 That's why a trajectory is very important. You generally would give more latitude to a coach with only 20 wins in first three years if he got 3, 7, 10 wins over that 3 yr span, than 7, 7, 6. No? Vermeil 1.0 - 4,5,9 Vermeil 2.0 - 5,4,13 Walsh - 2,6,13 Jauron - 7,7,? Isnt the IDea to see progression Jauron had a 5-1 start I am sorry but 1-6 since is the most pathetic thing you can do and its a pure reflection of the headcoach. He did it to himself buy bringing up the expectations with the 7-9 record with the rash of injuries he had last year and this year is nowhere near that and he still blew it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poeticlaw Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I'll never hail Jauron as a Hall of Famer, but I'm sure curious to see what he would do with strong line play. He did once go 13-3 after all. You do realize he went 13-3 with a similar schedule that he has this year. He only beat 3 teams that season with a winning Record so he was 10-1 against teams .500 and below that season and 3-3 against teams above .500 the gut is a joke and always will be he is a carrer loser agains teams that are .500 and above and a winner against teams below .500 THEY GUY NEEDS TO LEAVING WILLING or SHOWN THE DOOR!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Interesting. How long till we run the next guy out of town? 3 years--the usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Brandon includes Jauron as "Unacceptable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 That is my feelings as well. Losman had multiple coordinators his first 4 years, now Edwards will have 3 coordinators if we switch head coaches (I assume we would hire a coach who has a spine and would insist on his own system). The only consistency we have is inconsistency on the coaching levels. If we actually pull the trigger yet again, please have someone with experience in mind before pulling the trigger. Cowart, Shotenheimer, etc, just make sure we are not going the cheap, "gee I get to be an NFL coach" kind of guy like Meathead and Williams. Agreed but the dilemna is that the last two offensive coordinators under Jauron have not gotten results. The offense showed some promise earlier in the season (that's kind of a duh comment but true). and then either because it fell apart or other teams figured it out - or both - it has been piss poor since. Thinking that doing the same thing with the same players next year is going to get results is a flawed way of thinking. I was a DJ defender earlier in the year. Now, I think the players have laid down on him so he can't stay. Even if he does no way does Turk Schonert stay. His system does not work or his players are not in a position to execute or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flomoe Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Part of me thinks we need a new coach, but with all of the young players learning a new system, I'm not so sure it would help I know you don't like whiny fans but in reference to "all the young players" comment, I have to say that there are maybe a handful of young players on this current team that are worth keeping. I really don't think the whole problem is the ownership, coaching or even the fans. There are a lot of question marks with the talent level across the board with this team. Young Players would have to include Whitner, Simpson, Scott, McElvin, Greer, McGee, Poz and Ellis on D. Of that group, the only ones playing to any sort of potential would be Whitner and McGee when healthy. The rest look lousy at best lately. The unnamed players aren't even worth mentioning except Mitchell. Offensively, there is talent in the young Lynch, Schouman, Fine and Evans (if he is considered young still). Evans would probably be best as a #2 receiver though and the rest of the group is lacking serious talent, sans Reed. The line is pretty much a veteran group and have been playing well for the most part. The real problem here is the lack of talent at the QB position. Edwards shows flashes of a decent QB but then shows that he probably isn't the leader of or Qb of the future of this team. His flaws have been exposed and his head mentally has shrunk to the size of a pea. He is scared and that doesn't bode well for an NFL QB. The rest don't need to be discussed because either we've seen to much (#7) or not enough (#10 or whatever number Hamdan is). This team needs an enema from the top on down. It is time to clean house and bring in an experienced football guy with a track record of winning, not riding the coat tails of his coach (see Donahoe). The talent and experience level of this team is only a couple of steps above what Williams had to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billnutinphoenix Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 -The pass protection has been decent. One of my other qualifiers was "at least mediocrity everywhere else." When the quarterback play was passable, a Jauron-led team was 5-1. When the quarterback play (regardless of who it was) fell to the bottom of the league, the pass protection was negated, and the offense started spinning its tires in the mud. -Run D has been solid, but pass rush is bad enough to make me vomit. Denney and Kelsay are sorry excuses for NFL defensive ends, and I don't know how Fewell/Jauron have worked around those defficiencies to field a decent overall unit. -Penalties as a whole have been way down with Jauron from previous regimes. Challenges are annoying, but a lynching over that hardly seems eye for an eye. Ditto for the timeouts, but I tend to chalk that up to the inexperience at both Offensive Coordinator and QB. I don't remember that happening to the point it has this year when it was Fairchild/Losman (as awful as they were). -Playcalling on offense? Start a Turk Schonert thread. -The defense as a whole has been pretty good this year despite ZERO pass rush, so perhaps the playcalling hasn't been as suspect as you think. They're doing their best with what they've got. I'll never hail Jauron as a Hall of Famer, but I'm sure curious to see what he would do with strong line play. He did once go 13-3 after all. Then, start with a real defensive coordinator....don't get your buddy...buddy system has been tried and always fails...ask Wade, Marv, Mularkey, and Williams.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billnutinphoenix Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Brandon includes Jauron as "Unacceptable." I think I heard this happen before....Didn't Donahoe say this before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Young Players would have to include Whitner, Simpson, Scott, McElvin, Greer, McGee, Poz and Ellis on D. Of that group, the only ones playing to any sort of potential would be Whitner and McGee when healthy. The rest look lousy at best lately. The unnamed players aren't even worth mentioning except Mitchell. Really? Because Mckelvin, Greer and Scott have all impressed me this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Let me know when you find a link to the article that says "Dick Jauron Fired by Bills". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I think I can solve our problem: Found this nugget on an Auburn University football (For those who do not know, they are looking for a HC) I'm just not sure (Gill Turner is) ready for this type of a job... I think he's a great man and he's done a great job at Buffalo this year -- but that is the MAC. His overall record isn't very good. I don't think he can come into the SEC right now and play against the likes of $aban, Richt, Meyer, Petrino, Nutt, Spurrier, the Hat, and now add Kiffen... and win. I think we should go after a coordinator in the NFL... or a struggling NFL HC. Have I got the coach for them. Yale graduate, even keel, treats his players with respect, God fearing (that goes over big at Auburn), he's white (some of the Auburn alumni are convinced the BOT would never hire a black HC), and I have never heard him swear (another plus for down there). We could "trade" him to Auburn for a future player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 That's why a trajectory is very important. You generally would give more latitude to a coach with only 20 wins in first three years if he got 3, 7, 10 wins over that 3 yr span, than 7, 7, 6. No? Vermeil 1.0 - 4,5,9 Vermeil 2.0 - 5,4,13 Walsh - 2,6,13 Jauron - 7,7,? You are dead on. Jauron's coaching style does not lend itself to improvement. Rather, it wins 7 games simply by taking advantage of bad teams who are making mistakes in the name of progress. Last year, I made the point about the 2006 Bills beating teams like Jax and GB, who then went on to their respective conference championship games in 2007 while the Bills repeated their mediocrity. But it's even more obvious in 2008, when you look at what the teams the Bills beat LAST year are doing THIS year. Six combined wins versus the Jets, Fish, Ravens and Redskins. All of those teams are playing playoff caliber football this year. It's remarkable, especially when you consider that 3 of those teams changed coaches too. What next year? Are the Chiefs, Raiders and Rams going to pass us? WTF? They aren't getting better, folks. What's more, they are uninspired by the coaching and it shows in a lack of discipline and focus, which translates to the missed blocks and tackles, dropped passes etc.. that some seem to think is not tied to coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Part of me thinks we need a new coach, but with all of the young players learning a new system, I'm not so sure it would help Sure it would, the guy is a downer. The players know his track record as a loser! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Interesting. How long till we run the next guy out of town? Whatever... If the New Guy Coaches like Jauron I certainly hope it does not take 3 Years... How in Gods Name anyone looks at this Team and does not understand they are being prepared for a gun-fight with sticks I'll never understand? They may not be the most talented Team every week...I think that can certainly be debated...But they sure as hell are the poorer Coached and poorest prepared Team week in and week out... If the new Coach sucks it still does not mean You keep him solely for continuities sake...And if He's a loser like Dead Dick I hope We run Him out of Town too...Stability is only good assuming You have what it takes to Win consistantly in this League, and Jauron does not have it...Dick Jauron is a proven loser...No one needs another Year to know that... Folks who accept mediocrity or less for the sake of continuity...I just don't get it...NFL Teams cannot accept losing...Unless You're the Bengals of coarse...You wanna be the new Bengals?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Stop teasing me with questions like> Jauron gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Part of me thinks we need a new coach, but with all of the young players learning a new system, I'm not so sure it would help It would help if he is better. Change for the sake of change isn't going to do it. DJ has angered me greatly over this losing stretch, and I don't think he is a very good coach, so I am eager for him to be replaced. But there is a little step back before a step forward with a new coach and a new system, so it is crucial that our next coach be better than Jauron, not just a new face. I am very wary of a change in the shuffle of below average coaches, and hope we can find a way go get someone who will actually be very good at his job, and not just at "getting his guys to play hard". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I don't like the idea of continuing to recycle coaches, and I think Jauron could pan out, BUT... if Ralph is willing to spend the money, there would be no better fit than Bill Cowher. That guy personifies a place like Buffalo, has won a SB, and has been one of the few people in the media who has consistently said good things about the Bills. I kind of get the feeling from seeing Cowher talk about Buffalo that he might be interested if the job were offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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