Is the decision to fire Jauron out of Wilson's hands?

[Hazed and Amuzed]

Sully made the point in yesterday's chat that you don't here people calling Patrick Willis "young."

 

And people aren't calling Marshawn Lynch young either. What's the point?

[Tortured Soul]

Did Willis miss his first year?

They weren't calling Willis young his first year either. And having a full camp and playing three games, then studying under NFL coaches for the next three months isn't the same as being a rookie, either.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

They weren't calling Willis young his first year either. And having a full camp and playing three games, then studying under NFL coaches for the next three months isn't the same as being a rookie, either.

 

I thought we were talking value here. Willis is a rare talent and he was taken very high. The expectations for him to come in and perform were high as they should have been. He delivered. Poz was a second rounder for a reason. Poz will never be Willis.

[The Dean]

They weren't calling Willis young his first year either. And having a full camp and playing three games, then studying under NFL coaches for the next three months isn't the same as being a rookie, either.

 

 

They sure were. Of course they were. He made a LOT of mistakes, but showed a LOT of promise and made some great progress over the year. But, yes, he was always called "young" or "rookie" every game I saw him play, and every time I saw a highlight of him.

 

I am not suggesting that Poz is a rookie, but he did miss most of the season, that should be noticed when you start the comparisons....IF you care to be honest in the comparisons.

[keepthefaith]

I apologize for yet another thread revolving around Jauron, but I thought this theory may have some legs.

 

This dreadful franchise has been peddling hope for almost a decade now. With the economy the way it is and with season ticket sales surely to plummet next season - how does one peddle hope after the crash and burn of this season?

 

Even if one can make the argument that Jauron deserves to stay or that Ralph would normally never buy out his contract, when you peddle hope - perception is reality. If the fan base has decided that this team is hopeless with Jauron - who is going to buck this economic downturn, reject the only message the Bills have to offer their fans, and purchase those tickets?

 

Ralph, like it or not, may come to the conclusion that he has to fire Jauron or he will have nothing to offer the fans for next season.

 

Getting back to the topic here, I agree that Ralph's hand could be forced by the fans. However, that might be at the end of '09 after Ralph actually witnesses the fans buying fewer tickets. As much as I'd like Jauron replaced, I'd wager heavily that he's still the coach next year.

[Dawgg]

They sure were. Of course they were. He made a LOT of mistakes, but showed a LOT of promise and made some great progress over the year. But, yes, he was always called "young" or "rookie" every game I saw him play, and every time I saw a highlight of him.

 

I am not suggesting that Poz is a rookie, but he did miss most of the season, that should be noticed when you start the comparisons....IF you care to be honest in the comparisons.

 

Patrick Willis was the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.

 

Assuming this is Poz's rookie season, he wouldn't even be in the Top 15.

 

And both of their respective teams are less than mediocre.

[The Dean]

Patrick Willis was the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.

 

Assuming this is Poz's rookie season, he wouldn't even be in the Top 15.

 

And both of their respective teams are less than mediocre.

 

 

That has nothing to do with the original back-and-forth between me and tortured soul, but thanks for playing.

[lets_go_bills]

I apologize for yet another thread revolving around Jauron, but I thought this theory may have some legs.

 

This dreadful franchise has been peddling hope for almost a decade now. With the economy the way it is and with season ticket sales surely to plummet next season - how does one peddle hope after the crash and burn of this season?

 

Even if one can make the argument that Jauron deserves to stay or that Ralph would normally never buy out his contract, when you peddle hope - perception is reality. If the fan base has decided that this team is hopeless with Jauron - who is going to buck this economic downturn, reject the only message the Bills have to offer their fans, and purchase those tickets?

 

Ralph, like it or not, may come to the conclusion that he has to fire Jauron or he will have nothing to offer the fans for next season.

 

Good point.

[Dawgg]

That has nothing to do with the original back-and-forth between me and tortured soul, but thanks for playing.

 

You were making excuses for Poz.

 

I simply was refuting said excuse.

 

You're welcome

 

BTW, Marv's tenure as GM wasn't all that good, was it? It's really too bad... but at least he brought some stability. And at least he chose Trent Edwards

[DrFishfinder]

I apologize for yet another thread revolving around Jauron, but I thought this theory may have some legs.

 

This dreadful franchise has been peddling hope for almost a decade now. With the economy the way it is and with season ticket sales surely to plummet next season - how does one peddle hope after the crash and burn of this season?

 

Even if one can make the argument that Jauron deserves to stay or that Ralph would normally never buy out his contract, when you peddle hope - perception is reality. If the fan base has decided that this team is hopeless with Jauron - who is going to buck this economic downturn, reject the only message the Bills have to offer their fans, and purchase those tickets?

 

Ralph, like it or not, may come to the conclusion that he has to fire Jauron or he will have nothing to offer the fans for next season.

The only way Ralph has something to offer the fans next year in that respect is if he hires a high profile coach with a winning record and championship, like Cowher. Otherwise, Ralph is peddling yet another inside straight draw.

[dave mcbride]

Sully made the point in yesterday's chat that you don't here people calling Patrick Willis "young."

 

SDS, the counterargument, I guess, is do you think change for change's sake will be enough to get fans to buy in? If the next coach is anyone other than Bill Cowher (maybe Spagnuolo, maybe Schottenheimer), will fans be excited and the season-ticket base stay at the point it's at now?

Am I missing something? To my eye, while not dominant, Poz is a top 20 MLB in the NFL -- there are at least a dozen worse starters than him. That's not too bad for a second round pick who just played his 15th game. Of all the people to rag on, come on!

[dave mcbride]

Patrick Willis was the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.

 

Assuming this is Poz's rookie season, he wouldn't even be in the Top 15.

 

And both of their respective teams are less than mediocre.

??

 

Why is a second round pick who performs consistently in his first 15 games (the Bills are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better against the run this year, and it's not all Stroud) and is a league leader in tackles a squandered pick? He may not make huge plays, but you won't see him out of position and he doesn't miss tackles. You're obviously right about McCargo and Losman, but your argument about Poz is a losing one. He'd start for most teams in the NFL.

[jester43]

I know that the fans have been wrong on these matters (see Coughlin), but it's rare when they are because the list of coaches that take a long time to develop into winners is a very very short one. Dick would be going into his ninth year as a head coach with only one winning season under his belt. Yikes! Is this guy on the ten year development plan or what?

HIRE ME. NOT ONLY WAS I RIGHT ABOUT COUGHLIN, BUT RT CONNER AND I WOULD MAKE SWEET DRAFT PICKS.

[The Dean]

You were making excuses for Poz.

 

I simply was refuting said excuse.

 

You're welcome

 

BTW, Marv's tenure as GM wasn't all that good, was it? It's really too bad... but at least he brought some stability. And at least he chose Trent Edwards

 

 

As usual, you miss the point of the discussion, and focus on the negatives (if it relates to the Bills, of course).

 

I simply believe in forthrightness when making these sorts of comparisons.

 

Marv's tenure as GM looks better all the time, IMO. The talent on this team is now pretty-to-very good, in most positions. That is a FAR better than when Marv came to the job.

[The Dean]

HIRE ME. NOT ONLY WAS I RIGHT ABOUT COUGHLIN, BUT RT CONNER AND I WOULD MAKE SWEET DRAFT PICKS.

 

 

With regards to Coughlin, you got lucky that a guy that old, and seemingly set in his ways, made such a dramatic change in the way he deals with his team. To his credit, and yours (for predicting the outcome), it made a HUGE difference in his ability to motivate that team. The Coughlin of J-Ville, or the 2006 Giants would likely be available to the Bills again.

[BillsVet]

I simply believe in forthrightness when making these sorts of comparisons.

 

Marv's tenure as GM looks better all the time, IMO. The talent on this team is now pretty-to-very good, in most positions. That is a FAR better than when Marv came to the job.

 

It doesn't matter how much talent you have, but how it's used. Right now, coaching is what limits this team. When you can outgain your opponent nearly 2-1, and come away with only 3 points against a team going nowhere, something is wrong. Marv's hiring of DJ was the first and ultimately most destructive decision, because no matter how they drafted, you need to use those players correctly.

 

DJ's handling of Lynch in that game was abhorrent, but to comment that he didn't want to "destroy" (his words) the back is patently absurd. ML had 1 carry in the fourth, but the real story is DJ didn't question Turk about his use of a feature back in a close game. We know DJ selected TS, and we're seeing that was probably another bad move.

 

Marv hired DJ. That was a bad move. End of story.

[H2o]

I apologize for yet another thread revolving around Jauron, but I thought this theory may have some legs.

 

This dreadful franchise has been peddling hope for almost a decade now. With the economy the way it is and with season ticket sales surely to plummet next season - how does one peddle hope after the crash and burn of this season?

 

Even if one can make the argument that Jauron deserves to stay or that Ralph would normally never buy out his contract, when you peddle hope - perception is reality. If the fan base has decided that this team is hopeless with Jauron - who is going to buck this economic downturn, reject the only message the Bills have to offer their fans, and purchase those tickets?

 

Ralph, like it or not, may come to the conclusion that he has to fire Jauron or he will have nothing to offer the fans for next season.

 

FINALLY!!! We, the fans, might have an actual "say so".

[jester43]

With regards to Coughlin, you got lucky that a guy that old, and seemingly set in his ways, made such a dramatic change in the way he deals with his team. To his credit, and yours (for predicting the outcome), it made a HUGE difference in his ability to motivate that team. The Coughlin of J-Ville, or the 2006 Giants would likely be available to the Bills again.

i really believed and still believe the guy's a great coach. but of course he was guilty for a time of being too set in his ways and it almost cost him his job. HOWEVER, i believe a GOOD coach is never too old to change and improve if he wants to. so as far as that goes there is still hope for jauron, i guess. though i amnot optimistic.

 

but god to we need someone to call out these sallies playing on our lines.

 

one other thing...the more i think about it, coughlin would have flopped here in buffalo because ralph would have small-balled him to death and sent him out to fight with one hand tied behind his back. coughlin was better off joining an owner who actually wanted to win.

[Sisyphean Bills]

It doesn't matter how much talent you have, but how it's used. Right now, coaching is what limits this team. When you can outgain your opponent nearly 2-1, and come away with only 3 points against a team going nowhere, something is wrong. Marv's hiring of DJ was the first and ultimately most destructive decision, because no matter how they drafted, you need to use those players correctly.

 

DJ's handling of Lynch in that game was abhorrent, but to comment that he didn't want to "destroy" (his words) the back is patently absurd. ML had 1 carry in the fourth, but the real story is DJ didn't question Turk about his use of a feature back in a close game. We know DJ selected TS, and we're seeing that was probably another bad move.

 

Marv hired DJ. That was a bad move. End of story.

The irony is that Levy's first move was to talk to Mike Mularkey, decide he was the right coach to go ahead with, and to talk him into staying. Hours after that agreement, Mularkey decided to quit rather than be a lame duck head coach who had just fired part of his staff. Levy's second move was to hire Jauron after he'd lost the initiative. Once the new regime was in place their first decision was to declare the Bills were going with all-new offensive and defensive systems -- the "what's new" was the Mike Martz offense and the "what's cool" was the Tony Dungy defense. They proceeded to clean house under the pretense of cash-to-cap and instilling a winning atmosphere. The winning never happened; there may be more smiles on people's faces, but that doesn't actually correlate to winning. Which circles back to the irony of it. Going in, Mularkey and the systems he ran were judged to be "what the team needed to move forward". Soon thereafter, the team was being blown up.

[Tortured Soul]

They sure were. Of course they were. He made a LOT of mistakes, but showed a LOT of promise and made some great progress over the year. But, yes, he was always called "young" or "rookie" every game I saw him play, and every time I saw a highlight of him.

 

I am not suggesting that Poz is a rookie, but he did miss most of the season, that should be noticed when you start the comparisons....IF you care to be honest in the comparisons.

I'm not going to go back and look for articles, but I remember hearing a lot more about his maturity last year than his youth. When I heard him next to rookie, it was more along the lines of "he sure doesn't look like a rookie."

 

What do you say Dean? You happy with his play?