2020 Our Year For Sure Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 My Pops is on the Fire Dicky J Train, and we got to talking about this after the SF game. We actually came to realize we could put together a half-decent 3-4 with the team we have right now. Just for shts and giggles, here's how I'd envision it shaking out: RDE: Spencer Johnson NT: Marcus Stroud LDE: Kyle Williams ROLB: Aaron Schobel ILB: Kawika Mitchell ILB: Paul Posluszny LOLB: Need to add a player And the secondary we know. As for that open OLB spot, the best we could do with the team we have (assuming Crowell is a goner) would be to start DiGorgio in the middle instead of Kawika, and put Kawika on the outside. Another intriguing possibility would be to keep the middle as is, and use Bryan Scott as an OLB. He's been playing in the box quite a bit, and we've been blitzing him a lot. Really though, we'd need to find a fast, athletic pass rusher, as Schobel alone just doesn't cut it, regardless of the system. But I do think Schobel would make a damn good 3-4 blitzing linebacker, in that Jason Taylor mold. I believe he was playing down around 260 lbs. this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Try 240-245 for Schobel. Taylor has always been right at 240. He always laughs when he see's himself listed at 260. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Wow, I didn't realize he was down THAT low. All the better for a move to LB, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I think Alvin Bowen could be the extra linebacker, and Ellis can be a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quester74 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Maybe McCargo would be worth a as a DE in a 3-4 scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Try 240-245 for Schobel. Taylor has always been right at 240. He always laughs when he see's himself listed at 260. Actually, if I recall correctly, I think it's more near 220lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 I think Alvin Bowen could be the extra linebacker, and Ellis can be a backup. Astro, I've always liked your knowledge, but are you really saying that you think a 5th round, special teams linebacker who blew out his knee and has never played a down in the NFL, or a down of football in a year and a half, can step in and be the starting OLB for the Buffalo Bills? And that the Bills can go into the offseason assuming all of this and not addressing the position? I know he's got great speed, but no one has ever seen him play at the NFL level, and he's coming off reconstructive knee surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Can somebody ANYBODY explain to me the fascination with the 3-4 that is so rampant on this board? Not only do we not have the personal to run it I think it's a defense that can be easily exploited without top talent to run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Can somebody ANYBODY explain to me the fascination with the 3-4 that is so rampant on this board? Not only do we not have the personal to run it I think it's a defense that can be easily exploited without top talent to run it. because we can't beat teams that run it. It's one of those if you can't beat em join em things. Personally I don't care what defense we run. We don't have talent on that side of the ball in the fron 7. I personally prefer a more attacking style of defense. A Jim Johnson type d. Again it's not a scheme issue. It's a talent issue. The front 7 needs to be drastically improved. Yeah the 3-4 can be exploited by teams who can either run a spread pass heavy offense, minimizing the effectiveness of the lb heavy defense, or by teams who have a strong power running game, with a upper echelon te to exploit the lb's in coverage. Most of these good 3-4 teams now have so much talent in their front 7 they don't run a strict base 3-4, and throw so many different looks including 4-3, 4-4, zone blitz, and cover 2. Good teams don't build to scheme. They build and adjust schemes based on maximizing their players abilities. The Bills, and apparantly some fans don't quite get this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Astro, I've always liked your knowledge, but are you really saying that you think a 5th round, special teams linebacker who blew out his knee and has never played a down in the NFL, or a down of football in a year and a half, can step in and be the starting OLB for the Buffalo Bills? And that the Bills can go into the offseason assuming all of this and not addressing the position? I know he's got great speed, but no one has ever seen him play at the NFL level, and he's coming off reconstructive knee surgery. Well if Chris Brown thinks so it must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 ood teams don't build to scheme. They build and adjust schemes based on maximizing their players abilities. The Bills, and apparantly some fans don't quite get this I've been saying that for years since I've heard of this "Cover 2" nonsense. "You don't need good CBs." "He's too big to play a cover 2." Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 While we're moving players around randomly, maybe we should have Whitner move to NT. It'd allow us to run zone blitzes "unexpectedly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 The main benifit I see to the 3-4 is that there a lot more quality players that fit that scheme. It seems that there are plenty of guys who can play the rush LB in a 3-4, but not nearly enough dominant 4-3 ends out there. What I mean is, there has been one Mario Williams type in the last 5 years, but there are a lot of guys like Merriman, Ware, Harrison, Suggs, Ellis, and Vrabel who can generate more pressure on the QB than most DE's. Also, its a lot easier to find a Big fat guy to take on blockers and eat space than it is to find big fat guys who are fast and can penetrate holes. There is just so much more qualified players around that fit the 3-4 more so than the 4-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 The 3-4 isn't easier to staff - the key positions are the defensive linemen, and good ones are absolutely required. It worked for us because we had Bruce Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 The main benifit I see to the 3-4 is that there a lot more quality players that fit that scheme. It seems that there are plenty of guys who can play the rush LB in a 3-4, but not nearly enough dominant 4-3 ends out there. What I mean is, there has been one Mario Williams type in the last 5 years, but there are a lot of guys like Merriman, Ware, Harrison, Suggs, Ellis, and Vrabel who can generate more pressure on the QB than most DE's. Also, its a lot easier to find a Big fat guy to take on blockers and eat space than it is to find big fat guys who are fast and can penetrate holes. There is just so much more qualified players around that fit the 3-4 more so than the 4-3 I disagree on all points. The 3-4 is probably tougher to staff because less teams run it. Also you need larger ends and to truly run it well you need an immovable object in the middle. Something despite what you may believe isn't always easy to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 The main benifit I see to the 3-4 is that there a lot more quality players that fit that scheme. It seems that there are plenty of guys who can play the rush LB in a 3-4, but not nearly enough dominant 4-3 ends out there. What I mean is, there has been one Mario Williams type in the last 5 years, but there are a lot of guys like Merriman, Ware, Harrison, Suggs, Ellis, and Vrabel who can generate more pressure on the QB than most DE's. Also, its a lot easier to find a Big fat guy to take on blockers and eat space than it is to find big fat guys who are fast and can penetrate holes. There is just so much more qualified players around that fit the 3-4 more so than the 4-3 Im a pretty stout guy that can penetrate holes.......oh you mean play DT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinBeforeYouLeave Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 In 93 or so we (fans) couldn't stop fixating on the 4-3. That lasted a while. There were some horses on the roster those days, but in retrospect there was more athleticism with the LB's, and most were pretty good size. Jeff Wright was probably about 50 lb light compared to the current standard, and the unit was still effective, so in that way they were a little off the prototype. The current group is woefully small, with no Bob Sanders to clean up behind them. There has to be a way to cut K Mitchell loose on passing situations, even if it means a little man coverage against mid-size receivers. As far as moving Schobel to OLB in year eight of his career... can he even cover? I've never seen a scheme change do much, Wade Phillips was a guy I liked. He just did what it took the way his guys could best pay. Scheme seemed to take a back seat to gameplan. IIf I remember right, in important games he and his group responded, often creatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 My Pops is on the Fire Dicky J Train, and we got to talking about this after the SF game. We actually came to realize we could put together a half-decent 3-4 with the team we have right now. Just for shts and giggles, here's how I'd envision it shaking out: RDE: Spencer Johnson NT: Marcus Stroud LDE: Kyle Williams ROLB: Aaron Schobel ILB: Kawika Mitchell ILB: Paul Posluszny LOLB: Need to add a player And the secondary we know. As for that open OLB spot, the best we could do with the team we have (assuming Crowell is a goner) would be to start DiGorgio in the middle instead of Kawika, and put Kawika on the outside. Another intriguing possibility would be to keep the middle as is, and use Bryan Scott as an OLB. He's been playing in the box quite a bit, and we've been blitzing him a lot. Really though, we'd need to find a fast, athletic pass rusher, as Schobel alone just doesn't cut it, regardless of the system. But I do think Schobel would make a damn good 3-4 blitzing linebacker, in that Jason Taylor mold. I believe he was playing down around 260 lbs. this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 You do not understand the 3-4. A stud nose tackle is needed - Marcus Stroud is not the likely candidate. The other keys in 3-4 are absolute lockdown corners maybe McGhee is one there is not another. Also key in the 3-4 is a rushing LB maybe Schobel is it but the assumption is not proven. If it does not work out we have no fallback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 because we can't beat teams that run it. It's one of those if you can't beat em join em things. Personally I don't care what defense we run. We don't have talent on that side of the ball in the fron 7. I personally prefer a more attacking style of defense. A Jim Johnson type d. Again it's not a scheme issue. It's a talent issue. The front 7 needs to be drastically improved. Yeah the 3-4 can be exploited by teams who can either run a spread pass heavy offense, minimizing the effectiveness of the lb heavy defense, or by teams who have a strong power running game, with a upper echelon te to exploit the lb's in coverage. Most of these good 3-4 teams now have so much talent in their front 7 they don't run a strict base 3-4, and throw so many different looks including 4-3, 4-4, zone blitz, and cover 2. Good teams don't build to scheme. They build and adjust schemes based on maximizing their players abilities. The Bills, and apparantly some fans don't quite get this Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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