Did anyone see the story on Planned Pernthood

[Ramius]

Thats not entirely true. I took a quick gander at their site and abortion is front and center. If its not their main "product", then its pretty damn close to the top of the list.

 

Actually, their first heading, even before abortion, is birth control. But, for the nutjobs, its really easy to mindlessly scream out, "ZOMG, THEY ARE PROMOTING ABORTIONS!!!!!!!"

 

Here are some simple associations that the general public and whackos on both sides have a hard time understanding.

 

1. McDonalds did not make the obese person fat.

2. Remington did not make the criminal shoot someone.

3. PP did not make the girl get an abortion.

 

All of the above behaviors are going to occur whether there is a gift card involved or not, because they are personal choices.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

p.s. there needs to be a board rule that people with >5000 posts can't change their ID. I think I'm responding to some newbie tard and in reality it's an oldie tard --

 

 

Granted, PP offers a good number of important health services for women, but they do also provide access to abortions, and the thought that these gift cards could be used for such procedures is just a bit disturbing, despite my mostly pro-choice worldview.

[RkFast]

If you are talking about this website, then I think your description is misleading:

 

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/

 

Of the 8 or 9 elements on the main page, ONE is Abortion-related. It says this:

 

 

 

As far as I can see, that is the ONLY mention of Abortion on the main page of that site. As abortion counseling IS a service of PP, where do you suggest they put that link? Somewhere where nobody can find it?

 

1. The action fund link

2. The main nav link

3. The "midnight regulation" link

4. The picture of the woman holding the sign

5. The words "reproductive health" in the top banner.

 

Im not going to comment on how they should run their site or promote this service, as that is not what this discussion is about. I dont care if they run a "Free Abortions Sweeptakes!" All Im doing is stating that this is ONE OF their main service offerings/causes and they promote it as such.

[Johnny Coli]

 

Granted, PP offers a good number of important health services for women, but they do also provide access to abortions, and the thought that these gift cards could be used for such procedures is just a bit disturbing, despite my mostly pro-choice worldview.

What about Wal-Mart gift cards? Wal-Mart is the nation's largest seller of guns. Should we protest against Wal-Mart's offering of gift cards because they might be used towards the purchase of a gun? It would be stupid.

[RkFast]

Actually, their first heading, even before abortion, is birth control. But, for the nutjobs, its really easy to mindlessly scream out, "ZOMG, THEY ARE PROMOTING ABORTIONS!!!!!!!"

 

I dont have a problem with them doing this, as Ive said several times in this thread. I have a problem with people trying to hide the fact like PJ was doing. I just want people to be !@#$ing honest instead of spinning whats in front of their faces to meet their own needs.

 

They are running an incentive offer. They are trying to promote their product offering, one of the main ones being abortions. So its not making someone a "nutjob" to argue this incentive is making abortions easier to get. Just as it doesnt make someone a "nutjob" for arguing that the midnight regulation is making abortions harder to get.

 

I am against abortions, but also think they should be legal and available.

[RkFast]

What about Wal-Mart gift cards? Wal-Mart is the nation's largest seller of guns. Should we protest against Wal-Mart's offering of gift cards because they might be used towards the purchase of a gun? It would be stupid.

 

Wal-Mart's product offering is MUCH more diverse than PP. Many dont sell guns at all. Bad example.

[Johnny Coli]

Wal-Mart's product offering is MUCH more diverse than PP. Bad example.

If you'd bother to check, PP offers a great deal of services. They also happen to provide access to women who choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Personally, I find the fact that a person can buy a gun in a store like Wal-Mart distasteful. But its not against the law. PP offers a service which you find distasteful, but its not against the law. The gift certificate offered by Wal-Mart or Planned Parenthood can be spent on any item in Wal-Mart, or for any service offered by Planned Parenthood.

[The Dean]

1. The action fund link

2. The main nav link

3. The "midnight regulation" link

4. The picture of the woman holding the sign

5. The words "reproductive health" in the top banner.

 

Im not going to comment on how they should run their site or promote this service, as that is not what this discussion is about. I dont care if they run a "Free Abortions Sweeptakes!" All Im doing is stating that this is ONE OF their main service offerings/causes and they promote it as such.

 

 

The only one of the things you mention above, that is specific to abortion and has the word "abortion", is the main nav link, and that is a rollover (I had NoScript on, and didn't notice it, the first time...my bad).

 

How is protecting women's "reproductive health" a call for abortion? Now, it is true that many of the items you list certainly involve abortion rights, as an issue. But, did you notice that "abortion" is not used in their discussion, on the front page. If PP were actively promoting abortions, and if that was their goal wouldn't that be logical, they wouldn't pussyfoot around the issue (see what I did there with pussyfoot?).

 

Abortion rights IS one of the issues PP is involved with, and as it is the one most under attack, it is logical that many of the issues discussed on the website will involve abortion, in some way. But, that wasn't the point here, was it? I thought the issue was the gift card, and whether it will be used for abortions,..as some called it "PP's main source of income". To that end, there is ONE link (two if you count the drop down), that even comes close to promoting abortion, and that is the link that says "abortion". That link takes you to a page that discusses abortion as an option...not one that promotes the abortion service.

 

But, again, the idea that a gift card will do anything to increase abortions at the clinic is preposterous, IMO.

[RkFast]

If you'd bother to check, PP offers a great deal of services.

 

No sh--, !@#$. Thats what the whole second half of this thread has been about and I was THE FIRST person to check.

 

 

They also happen to provide access to women who choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Personally, I find the fact that a person can buy a gun in a store like Wal-Mart distasteful. But its not against the law. PP offers a service which you find distasteful, but its not against the law.

 

Exactly. Thats not the point of the debate.

 

The gift certificate offered by Wal-Mart or Planned Parenthood can be spent on any item in Wal-Mart, or for any service offered by Planned Parenthood.

 

Nobody ever disputed that.

[RkFast]

The only one of the things you mention above, that is specific to abortion and has the word "abortion", is the main nav link, and that is a rollover (I had NoScript on, and didn't notice it, the first time...my bad).

 

How is protecting women's "reproductive health" a call for abortion? Now, it is true that many of the items you list certainly involve abortion rights, as an issue. But, did you notice that "abortion" is not used in their discussion, on the front page. If PP were actively promoting abortions, and if that was their goal wouldn't that be logical, they wouldn't pussyfoot around the issue (see what I did there with pussyfoot?).

 

Abortion rights IS one of the issues PP is involved with, and as it is the one most under attack, it is logical that many of the issues discussed on the website will involve abortion, in some way. But, that wasn't the point here, was it? I thought the issue was the gift card, and whether it will be used for abortions,..as some called it "PP's main source of income". To that end, there is ONE link (two if you count the drop down), that even comes close to promoting abortion, and that is the link that says "abortion". That link takes you to a page that discusses abortion as an option...not one that promotes the abortion service.

 

But, again, the idea that a gift card will do anything to increase abortions at the clinic is preposterous, IMO.

 

I think youre really splitting hairs on the links issue. We are interpreting it completely differently, which is fine.

 

Will this card "increase abortions", I dont know. Frankly, Id like to see the rsults after six months. There is where the proof wil lie.

[PastaJoe]

I dont have a problem with them doing this, as Ive said several times in this thread. I have a problem with people trying to hide the fact like PJ was doing. I just want people to be !@#$ing honest instead of spinning whats in front of their faces to meet their own needs.

 

They are running an incentive offer. They are trying to promote their product offering, one of the main ones being abortions. So its not making someone a "nutjob" to argue this incentive is making abortions easier to get. Just as it doesnt make someone a "nutjob" for arguing that the midnight regulation is making abortions harder to get.

 

I am against abortions, but also think they should be legal and available.

 

I'm trying to hide that they offer abortions? I just said it's not the service they promote the most, it's opponents who say that. 95% of their services are other than abortions. And I would expect that service to cost more, as it is probably the most complicated medical procedure they offer. That doesn't mean they use it as a money maker.

[RkFast]

I'm trying to hide that they offer abortions? I just said it's not the service they promote the most, it's opponents who say that. 95% of their services are other than abortions. And I would expect that service to cost more, as it is probably the most complicated medical procedure they offer. That doesn't mean they use it as a money maker.

 

Where are you getting your ##s from? I hope youre not pulling them out of the air.

[elegantelliotoffen]

So I take it once abortions are outlawed you'll be happy to pay increased taxes to take care for all these unwanted children?

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

What about Wal-Mart gift cards? Wal-Mart is the nation's largest seller of guns. Should we protest against Wal-Mart's offering of gift cards because they might be used towards the purchase of a gun? It would be stupid.

 

 

As stupid as comparing the purchase of a hunting rifle with getting an abortion?

[PastaJoe]

Where are you getting your ##s from? I hope youre not pulling them out of the air.

 

Those were Planned Parenthood's own numbers from the news story.

[DC Tom]

So I take it once abortions are outlawed you'll be happy to pay increased taxes to take care for all these unwanted children?

 

Can you tell me what Rush's talking points are on this topic, so I know how to respond to your sorry ass?

[elegantelliotoffen]

Can you tell me what Rush's talking points are on this topic, so I know how to respond to your sorry ass?

 

Probably something along the lines of that there has been X amount of aborted people since year Y who would have contributed Z amount into Social Security and so on and so forth. Something tells me however that if El Rushbo knocked up one of those whores he frequents in the Dominican Republic that he'd probably be singing a different tune!

[Steely Dan]

 

Granted, PP offers a good number of important health services for women, but they do also provide access to abortions, and the thought that these gift cards could be used for such procedures is just a bit disturbing, despite my mostly pro-choice worldview.

 

PP has done a poor job of fighting the perception of what they really are. They should be actively fighting that perception with a strong media campaign accentuating their other services. The majority of people in this country, even those who are pro-choice, would probably respond something about abortion first when PP comes up. If they had released the card idea with a BIG media campaign telling people what the cards can be used for other than abortions it would have garnered a large amount of education to the public.

 

 

If you'd bother to check, PP offers a great deal of services. They also happen to provide access to women who choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Personally, I find the fact that a person can buy a gun in a store like Wal-Mart distasteful. But its not against the law. PP offers a service which you find distasteful, but its not against the law. The gift certificate offered by Wal-Mart or Planned Parenthood can be spent on any item in Wal-Mart, or for any service offered by Planned Parenthood.

 

 

 

So I take it once abortions are outlawed you'll be happy to pay increased taxes to take care for all these unwanted children?

 

Once again I'll say that anyone who doesn't have an adopted child should STFU if they are against a woman's right to choose.

 

What the anti-rights nutjobs fail to understand is that if Roe v. Wade is overturned it will only become a states rights issue again and some states will allow it and others wont and it will become the big fustercluck it was before the decision.

[RkFast]

PP has done a poor job of fighting the perception of what they really are. They should be actively fighting that perception with a strong media campaign accentuating their other services. The majority of people in this country, even those who are pro-choice, would probably respond something about abortion first when PP comes up. If they had released the card idea with a BIG media campaign telling people what the cards can be used for other than abortions it would have garnered a large amount of education to the public.

 

Bingo. I agree 100%. Thats why rubes like me think they are not much more than an abortion mill. Maybe if they did some good PR fools like me would be educated about them.

 

 

Once again I'll say that anyone who doesn't have an adopted child should STFU if they are against a woman's right to choose.

 

What the anti-rights nutjobs fail to understand is that if Roe v. Wade is overturned it will only become a states rights issue again and some states will allow it and others wont and it will become the big fustercluck it was before the decision.

 

A bit extreme. But Im comfortable in my stance that one can be against abortions without wanting them outlawed. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite. I dont know. But Im also against cheap vokda and bad porn, and if Coli and Offen want to down a quart of Georgi while watching that lame movie with that ex wrestler chick and beat each other off, they can have at it.

[Steely Dan]

Bingo. I agree 100%. Thats why rubes like me think they are not much more than an abortion mill. Maybe if they did some good PR fools like me would be educated about them.

 

 

 

 

A bit extreme. But Im comfortable in my stance that one can be against abortions without wanting them outlawed. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite. I dont know. But Im also against cheap vokda and bad porn, and if Coli and Offen want to down a quart of Georgi while watching that lame movie with that ex wrestler chick and beat each other off, they can have at it.

 

Where did I say that people who are against abortion are anything negative? I don't like abortion but see it's sometimes necessary. I'm talking about those who are against it legally.