The Senator Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Good post, very Crayonz like. Not really - Crayonz would point out that TE's a Nancy-Boy, a glove-wearing Mary. He would be right - TE's played one complete season w/out injury since High School (his junior year at Stanford). We can screw with Trent's head the same way we did with JP's, and he'll turn out exactly the same as JP - only with a much weaker arm.
Cookiemonster Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 that's great and all, but what you say is pretty much bull sh--. our offense doesn't have continuity, drives aren't extended, and our defense isn't being kept off the field. Recently, yes, but you would have to admit that since Edwards has taken the reigns, the passing game has definitley been more efficient, with Edwards spreading the Ball to a lot of different recievers and backs, resulting in more time consuming, ball controlling, and fruitful drives. JP can't do that nearly as well. Will he be the Quartrback (Trent) we desperatley need going forward? Time will tell, me thinks we gave JP enough time already! He is good on the long ball and taking sacks though. Not to try and make a Trent/JP thing out of it or anything, it's just that we don't have anybody on the team better than him, I say we give him another season as the starter, unless he really implodes, that could mean another year of no playoffs, but what else can you do, bring in a veteran free agent as insurance maybe. Hows that for bull sh--?
Alphadawg7 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Posted December 4, 2008 Recently, yes, but you would have to admit that since Edwards has taken the reigns, the passing game has definitleybeen more efficient, with Edwards spreading the Ball to a lot of different recievers and backs, resulting in more time consuming, ball controlling, and fruitful drives. JP can't do that nearly as well. Will he be the Quartrback (Trent) we desperatley need going forward? Time will tell, me thinks we gave JP enough time already! He is good on the long ball and taking sacks though. Not to try and make a Trent/JP thing out of it or anything, it's just that we don't have anybody on the team better than him, I say we give him another season as the starter, unless he really implodes, that could mean another year of no playoffs, but what else can you do, bring in a veteran free agent as insurance maybe. Hows that for bull sh--? Also, TE has done this with an O-line consisting of Dockery, Walker, and a pro bowler in Peters...and our pass blocking during TE bad run has been quite good. JP never had that quality of pass protection...so, is it really fair to credit Trent with a lot of the stuff you are crediting him with when he has the distinct advantage of better RB's, blocking and coaching?
The Senator Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Recently, yes, but you would have to admit that since Edwards has taken the reigns, the passing game has definitleybeen more efficient, with Edwards spreading the Ball to a lot of different recievers and backs, resulting in more time consuming, ball controlling, and fruitful drives. JP can't do that nearly as well. Will he be the Quartrback (Trent) we desperatley need going forward? Time will tell, me thinks we gave JP enough time already! He is good on the long ball and taking sacks though. Not to try and make a Trent/JP thing out of it or anything, it's just that we don't have anybody on the team better than him, I say we give him another season as the starter, unless he really implodes, that could mean another year of no playoffs, but what else can you do, bring in a veteran free agent as insurance maybe. Hows that for bull sh--? But the thing to do is to keep yanking Trent out - that way we find out if he handles it better than JP. If he can't handle being yanked in and out repeatedly any better than JP could, then what's the point of him starting? We need to yank him, then start him, yank him, start him, etc. It's the only way to find out if he'll make a better starter than JP, or if he's no different.
Cookiemonster Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 Also, TE has done this with an O-line consisting of Dockery, Walker, and a pro bowler in Peters...and our pass blocking during TE bad run has been quite good. JP never had that quality of pass protection...so, is it really fair to credit Trent with a lot of the stuff you are crediting him with when he has the distinct advantage of better RB's, blocking and coaching? I might be giving him credit, but I'm not crowning him yet either, as I said before, he is really young, but in my opinion, has shown quite a bit of poise, and future upside, whether or not JP was afforded the advantage of a better line or backs, is a mute point, and may not have been fair, but it is what it is, besides like I said before, and I am going back to last year, even as far as preseason, when both were playing regularly, to me, there has been a marked improvement in the overall efficiency of our offense when Trent is directing it.
thebug Posted December 4, 2008 Posted December 4, 2008 But the thing to do is to keep yanking Trent out - that way we find out if he handles it better than JP. If he can't handle being yanked in and out repeatedly any better than JP could, then what's the point of him starting? We need to yank him, then start him, yank him, start him, etc. It's the only way to find out if he'll make a better starter than JP, or if he's no different. Providing Trent fans with the "he was mismanaged" excuse, then everyone around here will sound the same whining about how our QB's career was ruined by how he was treated.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 5, 2008 Author Posted December 5, 2008 I might be giving him credit, but I'm not crowning him yet either, as I said before, he is really young, but in my opinion,has shown quite a bit of poise, and future upside, whether or not JP was afforded the advantage of a better line or backs, is a mute point, and may not have been fair, but it is what it is, besides like I said before, and I am going back to last year, even as far as preseason, when both were playing regularly, to me, there has been a marked improvement in the overall efficiency of our offense when Trent is directing it. The o-line took time to gel...so by the time Trent took over they started playing better. Fred Jackson also came on as the season progressed...The coaching staff and game plan had more time to sink in...also, the game plan went from move the ball to protect the ball when a rookie (Trent) took over QB where there were fewer risks being taken and ultimately made the offense seem more efficient. Look, I want Trent to succeed, and he has shown flashes of potential, but he also now not handled this rough patch well and it concerns me how shaken his confidence has been. Even on the sidelines, he just looks down when he is struggling. Great players shake it off... My thing with JP is that he has shown plenty of potential but so much of the woes that the Bills were going through were unfairly put on him and he was never given the chance to succeed. So I just dont see why so many can be so anti JP and Pro Trent when they both have shown potential and both have had some real bad games. I will point out that its frustrating too that when Trent struggles its always something else causing it, not Trent. When JP struggled (on a much worse team with way worse coaching and way less talent on that offense) it was all JP's fault and he cant play in this league. Truth is, the kid has a serious arm, spent most of the time scrambling before he even hit his 3 step drop back as the line couldnt block my grandma back then, and had terrible coaching most of his career with no continuity in the offensive philosophy from one year to the next.
Thirdborn Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 1) Bill Walsh Endorsed him.2) Quick Release. 3) Rookie season put up similar numbers to a 4 year veteran. I personally believe that all of Trent's problems recently are related to Coaching and not the player. Bump
The Senator Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Providing Trent fans with the "he was mismanaged" excuse, then everyone around here will sound the same whining about how our QB's career was ruined by how he was treated. Exactly. IF Trent is truly the better QB, he needs to prove that he can handle being totally mismanaged, and succeed despite poor coaching and play calling. We already know we can provide him with the same poor coaching and play calling as JP, so since he already has the benefit of a much better O-line than JP had, we need to start yanking him out of the starting QB position every other game, then put him back in, then yank him again at the first sign of bad play, and keep doing this repeatedly. We need to know if he can handle that, or if he's just another JP. It's really the only way to find out if he's got what it takes to make it in this league, and with this team. If we don't do it, we'll never know if he's any better than JP.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Exactly. IF Trent is truly the better QB, he needs to prove that he can handle being totally mismanaged, and succeed despite poor coaching and play calling. We already know we can provide him with the same poor coaching and play calling as JP, so since he already has the benefit of a much better O-line than JP had, we need to start yanking him out of the starting QB position every other game, then put him back in, then yank him again at the first sign of bad play, and keep doing this repeatedly. We need to know if he can handle that, or if he's just another JP. It's really the only way to find out if he's got what it takes to make it in this league, and with this team. If we don't do it, we'll never know if he's any better than JP. Maybe they can switch to an entirely new offense and terminology too, like they did with JP. That is obviously a proven way to help a young QB get comfortable.
The Senator Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Maybe they can switch to an entirely new offense and terminology too, like they did with JP. That is obviously a proven way to help a young QB get comfortable. Well heck yeah, if that's what it takes. It needs to be a completely level playing field. We need to give this kid every disadvantage JP had - it's the only fair thing to do for Trent. Otherwise, how will he - or we - know if he's really any better than JP, or if the Trent-backers are just a bunch of Fanboys??
thebug Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Well heck yeah, if that's what it takes. It needs to be a completely level playing field. We need to give this kid every disadvantage JP had - it's the only fair thing to do for Trent. Otherwise, how will he - or we - know if he's really any better than JP, or if the Trent-backers are just a bunch of Fanboys?? Keep going, you have only used about 10% of the JP excuses
NavarreFL_Bills_Fan Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 I still think he needs some time to really evaluate....about your points 1. He was a winner in high school...which wasn't very long ago. 2. Anybody will be injury prone getting hit as much as he does. Some of the hits are his fault, but not all of them. 3. He's still on a very mediocre team. Not every rookie can come into a situation like Ben Rosthslesberger....how many QBs have come into the NFL and won immediately despite being on a mediocre team? I'm not making excuses, but lets be realistic and give him a little more time....then judge him.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Keep going, you have only used about 10% of the JP excuses But we can add to those as well! For example, "You can't blame Trent for the weather!" "You're expecting too much from a second year rookie; he was merely a 3rd rounder!"
thebug Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 But we can add to those as well! For example, "You can't blame Trent for the weather!" "You're expecting too much from a second year rookie; he was merely a 3rd rounder!" Sorry those are Trent's excuses, not JP's. Come on you can do better than that.
Thirdborn Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Sorry those are Trent's excuses, not JP's. Come on you can do better than that. Clearly Our QB's have been mishandled. Out of the bunch ...... (Rob Johnson, JP, and Trent) Trent has looked the sharpest. IMHO. JP has the deep ball, but Zero pocket presence. This topic isn't really about JP anyway. I think if we had a Parcells, this present team would kick ass.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 Sorry those are Trent's excuses, not JP's. Come on you can do better than that. Here's another Trent excuse: "Well, at least he isn't JP!"
WordByrd Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 A few reasons why I like Trent:Jim Kelly likes the guy and Jim never liked JP He came with that letter of endorsement from Bill Walsh He has a chemistry about him that draws people to him and root for him He seems to have a level head on his shoulders He knows what to say and how to say it HE IS IN HIS SOPHMORE SEASON He has so much upside that we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg It takes time people. AMEN
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 5, 2008 Posted December 5, 2008 A few reasons why I like Trent:Jim Kelly likes the guy and Jim never liked JP He came with that letter of endorsement from Bill Walsh He has a chemistry about him that draws people to him and root for him He seems to have a level head on his shoulders He knows what to say and how to say it HE IS IN HIS SOPHMORE SEASON He has so much upside that we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg It takes time people. You left these out. has an average arm at best is injury prone is afraid to throw deep despite his Stanford pedigree hasn't figured out how to move the chains against a cover-2 man under in 2 months of games is scared of snow
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