The intolerant bigotry of the liberal left

[DC Tom]

You do know the swastika was a version of the Christian cross, right? You do realize the people killing the Jews were Christians right?

 

Uh...no.

 

The swastika predates the cross by a good number of centuries.

 

And Naziism was far more pagan than it was Christian...a common source of conflict in Nazi political philosophy was reconciling the need to court the German Catholics with the desire to suppress all religions other than Naziism (it being, like most totalitarian political philosophies, an extremely jealous belief).

[Steely Dan]

Uh...no.

 

The swastika predates the cross by a good number of centuries.

 

And Naziism was far more pagan than it was Christian...a common source of conflict in Nazi political philosophy was reconciling the need to court the German Catholics with the desire to suppress all religions other than Naziism (it being, like most totalitarian political philosophies, an extremely jealous belief).

 

I know about the swastikas history. The Nazi's referred to it as the Nazi cross and as Deano pointed out Hitler claimed to be a Christian in Mein Kampf.

 

It went over the top and as you point out they were courting Catholics and even the Pope turned a blind eye.

 

It had to have Christian roots because the majority of Germany was Christian and they couldn't be converted over night so it had to make Christians feel welcome while they perverted the religion.

[StupidNation]

I know about the swastikas history. The Nazi's referred to it as the Nazi cross and as Deano pointed out Hitler claimed to be a Christian in Mein Kampf.

 

It went over the top and as you point out they were courting Catholics and even the Pope turned a blind eye.

 

It had to have Christian roots because the majority of Germany was Christian and they couldn't be converted over night so it had to make Christians feel welcome while they perverted the religion.

 

Pius XII, Eugenio Pacelli, was the cardinal ambassador of Germany and wrote scathing remarks about the Nazis before he was pope. As Pope no one did more for the Jews, so much so that the head rabbi, Zolli, renamed himself Eugenio after the Pope's birth name and became Catholic. The SS hated him so much they mocked him for being so pro-Jew and anti-Nazi, and made cartoons mocking him.

 

Hitler was a Nietzschian Marwinist who believed in the master race according to evolution. Hitler was raised Catholic, but hated the Catholic church, God, and killed the priests who spoke out against him. His view from Nietzsche that man becomes God was his plot, along with evolutionary beliefs. Those are facts.

 

Rabbis love Pius XII back in World War II, they hate him now because he was too Catholic. Read the quotes from the French rabbi here:

http://www.zenit.org/rssenglish-24162

Here is the story of the chief rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli who become Eugenio Zolli:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Zolli

 

Not only are you stupid and ignorant, but you have no limits to that ignorance and outrageous stupidity. Care to tell me who else saved 850,000 lives during the Nazis other than Pius XII? Hitler was a secular evolutionist, tell me how many he saved. Uncle Joe Stalin was another secular humanist, how many lives did he save?

[Jim in Anchorage]

Yep. Worked there back in 99. Still patronize some of the business in the ESB (especially Diamond Cutters, best prices I have found on diamond jewlery).

Just don't let them knock it down. When will Buffalo realize its priceless treasure's?

[DC Tom]

I know about the swastikas history. The Nazi's referred to it as the Nazi cross and as Deano pointed out Hitler claimed to be a Christian in Mein Kampf.

 

It went over the top and as you point out they were courting Catholics and even the Pope turned a blind eye.

 

It had to have Christian roots because the majority of Germany was Christian and they couldn't be converted over night so it had to make Christians feel welcome while they perverted the religion.

 

That's not "having Christian roots", that's pandering. Hitler may have referred to himself as "Christian"...but Hitler also wasn't the philosophical soul of the party. They guys that were, people like Rosenberg or Himmler, were die-hard pagans. Ritually and philosophically the Party was almost exclusively pagan (annual harvest festivals - NOT the same as Oktoberfest, before you claim it - were national events within a year of the Nazi's coming to power. Fertility rites followed not long thereafter.) The Party print literature was at best neutral (such as the Voelkischer Beobachter, which was Nazi Germany's equivalent of the New York Times or Wall Street Journal), when it wasn't strictly pagan (Der Stuermer, for example).

 

Hell, Hitler himself in Mein Kampf, while he may have claimed to be a Christian, dedicated whole chapters to the sacred link between the German peasantry and German soil.

[DC Tom]

Pius XII, Eugenio Pacelli, was the cardinal ambassador of Germany and wrote scathing remarks about the Nazis before he was pope. As Pope no one did more for the Jews, so much so that the head rabbi, Zolli, renamed himself Eugenio after the Pope's birth name and became Catholic. The SS hated him so much they mocked him for being so pro-Jew and anti-Nazi, and made cartoons mocking him.

 

Hitler was a Nietzschian Marwinist who believed in the master race according to evolution. Hitler was raised Catholic, but hated the Catholic church, God, and killed the priests who spoke out against him. His view from Nietzsche that man becomes God was his plot, along with evolutionary beliefs. Those are facts.

 

Rabbis love Pius XII back in World War II, they hate him now because he was too Catholic. Read the quotes from the French rabbi here:

http://www.zenit.org/rssenglish-24162

Here is the story of the chief rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli who become Eugenio Zolli:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Zolli

 

Not only are you stupid and ignorant, but you have no limits to that ignorance and outrageous stupidity. Care to tell me who else saved 850,000 lives during the Nazis other than Pius XII? Hitler was a secular evolutionist, tell me how many he saved. Uncle Joe Stalin was another secular humanist, how many lives did he save?

 

Wow. You actually managed to know even less about the topic than the guy you're trying to lecture. Once again, living up to your pseudonym.

[Adam]

Hitler was a Nietzschian Marwinist who believed in the master race according to evolution. Hitler was raised Catholic, but hated the Catholic church, God, and killed the priests who spoke out against him. His view from Nietzsche that man becomes God was his plot, along with evolutionary beliefs. Those are facts.

Those are facts- and to Hitler, any other belief did not make sense, and he could not rationalize why anyone would believe different. In his eyes, different was evil and evil needed to be eliminated.

 

Eliminating evil sounds like the right thing to do, doesn't it- especially when it becomes a majority view. Problem is, that when you seek to eliminate evil, you become the very thing you seek to stop.

 

Evil perpetuates itself and always will exist- hence the paradox of the Yin and the Yang. The two cannot exist without the other and sometimes cannot be told apart

[Steely Dan]

That's not "having Christian roots", that's pandering. Hitler may have referred to himself as "Christian"...but Hitler also wasn't the philosophical soul of the party. They guys that were, people like Rosenberg or Himmler, were die-hard pagans. Ritually and philosophically the Party was almost exclusively pagan (annual harvest festivals - NOT the same as Oktoberfest, before you claim it - were national events within a year of the Nazi's coming to power. Fertility rites followed not long thereafter.) The Party print literature was at best neutral (such as the Voelkischer Beobachter, which was Nazi Germany's equivalent of the New York Times or Wall Street Journal), when it wasn't strictly pagan (Der Stuermer, for example).

 

Hell, Hitler himself in Mein Kampf, while he may have claimed to be a Christian, dedicated whole chapters to the sacred link between the German peasantry and German soil.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I call that Christian roots.

[/dev/null]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I call that Christian roots.

 

Maybe because you see two things you don't like and are trying to draw a parallel?

[molson_golden2002]

Uh...no.

 

The swastika predates the cross by a good number of centuries.

 

And Naziism was far more pagan than it was Christian...a common source of conflict in Nazi political philosophy was reconciling the need to court the German Catholics with the desire to suppress all religions other than Naziism (it being, like most totalitarian political philosophies, an extremely jealous belief).

And the Protestants, too. National Socialim was basically a state religion, as in a worship of the state. Christianity focused the minds of the people on another world instead of worship of Hitler. Pagenism was seen as truly "German." Christiany was seen as "international," much like socialism and Judaism. The Nazis tolerated the Curches because they had to. But there were conflicts. There was active resistance to the placing of swastikas in churches and the Nazis backed down.

[olivier in france]

You have the audacity to call other's views and opinions about the origin of the Universe "stupid" and a few sentences later accuse OTHERS of stirring hate? I think you just proved the OP's core point.

 

 

what's the problem? there's a difference between stupidity and intolerance/hatred. I don't hate stupid people i pity them. And yes i pity creationists!

[olivier in france]

I know. I was watching a documentary on creationism the other days called The Flintstones and it showed men riding brontosaurusesesesses. The documentary showed that these critters were very well suited to removing rocks from a quarry.

[olivier in france]

Zoology is a science. Look it up. Experiments aren't the only way to do science. I suggest you get a better education.

 

I made a point you can't refute, so you resort to a lie, and name calling.

 

For what it's worth, I LOVE some people who, not only believe in a higher being, but believe in GOD, the way traditional religions discuss "him". I consider myself a true agnostic. I neither believe, nor disbelieve, in a "higher being". I suspect, very strongly, that that higher being, should it exist, has little to do with the God discussed in the Bible, Koran or other texts written long ago. Mostly, I believe that the existence and/or nature of "God" is probably unknowable to man.

 

Finally, as much of the violence/abuse/torture/etc. in this world's history can be tied to disagreements over the proper way to honor "God", I suggest that you rethink the connection between religious belief and morality.

 

 

Sometimes when i read you Dean, it really SCARES me, it's just like you are in my head ... i'd like one day to read something from you i totally disagree with... or maybe i post as "The Dean" at night while the real me thinks he's sleeping.

[Wacka]

And the Protestants, too. National Socialim was basically a state religion, as in a worship of the state. Christianity focused the minds of the people on another world instead of worship of Hitler. Pagenism was seen as truly "German." Christiany was seen as "international," much like socialism and Judaism. The Nazis tolerated the Curches because they had to. But there were conflicts. There was active resistance to the placing of swastikas in churches and the Nazis backed down.

 

They really "tolerated" them. Pope John Paul II had to secretly do his seminary studies during WWII. He also had to hide as helping Jews was punishable by death in Occupied Poland. It actually wasn't a capital crime in Germany proper.

[DC Tom]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I call that Christian roots.

 

I can agree to disagree.

 

I call that you admitting you're wrong.

[Johnny Coli]

Creationism is not science. Intelligent design is not science. As a scientist I see zero reason to tolerate people trying to equate their superstitions with actual science. And yes, zoos are absolutely conducting scientific research. You freaking idiots.

[molson_golden2002]

They really "tolerated" them. Pope John Paul II had to secretly do his seminary studies during WWII. He also had to hide as helping Jews was punishable by death in Occupied Poland. It actually wasn't a capital crime in Germany proper.

That's sort of the rub. Germany was not good to the Jews before WW2, but when the invaded Poland and suddenly had 4 million Jews on their hands the situation deteriorated and the Final Solution was created. The Holocaust didn't start when Hitler came to power but later.

[DC Tom]

That's sort of the rub. Germany was not good to the Jews before WW2, but when the invaded Poland and suddenly had 4 million Jews on their hands the situation deteriorated and the Final Solution was created. The Holocaust didn't start when Hitler came to power but later.

 

True, that. The "solution" to the "Jewish Question" before 1940 was exiling Jews from German soil. One of the purposes of the General Government was to create a giant Jewish ghetto...but when Frank came out and said "Screw that, I've got four million Jews to worry about already", they had to find other means of "solving" things. The Nazis certainly had no problem with mass genocide...but it wasn't a forgone end of Nazi policy, rather they evolved to it.

 

And most things in Poland were punishable by death. Even growing your own food, as I recall. The devastation of Poland in WWII was utterly phenomenal...probably the worst Europe had seen since the Thirty Years' War.

[StupidNation]

Wow. You actually managed to know even less about the topic than the guy you're trying to lecture. Once again, living up to your pseudonym.

 

Stunning rebuttal, full of facts and proof of people who lived there. With such overwhelming evidence and historical understanding how can anyone refute you!!!

 

Actually my name was for clowns like yourself.

[Steely Dan]

I can agree to disagree.

 

I call that you admitting you're wrong.

 

I call it telling you stick it up your Jack-ASS!