Conditions on the Bailout

[John Adams]

More of the intolerant bigotry cited in another thread.

Am I calling people idiots?

 

Probably, but get it right: By saying you have a 70IQ, I'm calling you retarded, not an idiot.

 

(SDS Disclaimer: This was not meant as a threat and this statement cannot be used against me in any court of law since it was likely said in jest. By using the above statement in a court of law, the user of said statement admits to being a grade A tool.)

[ExiledInIllinois]

"Baby you've come a long way!"

 

 

 

1940's

 

1960's

 

2008

 

2008

 

 

 

 

Logo

 

Ain't "competition" sweet?

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Anything that moves us away from more EEI fantasy about the auto industry and his laughable take on international business is a positive development.

 

Not fantasy... Watch what becomes when things start crashing down. I am not fear mongering either.

 

Nobody still has answered the question about why many people in this country hate workers who make an above average wage? Why we begrudge them so much? Afterall, they are the one's actually doing the "work", not control of the "work."

 

It is all about where you put your personal priorities and our nation's priorities... In the few or the many families that want to strive to live better. We seem to be heading down the road towards the few because many in this great land can't get past what their neighbor has over them. Hence: "Conditions on the Bailout." How is that for a tie-in? I am actually, on topic for once.

 

Sad.

[Fingon]

The unions have far too much power to extort the companies.

 

 

 

Job bank :lol:

[pBills]

The unions have far too much power to extort the companies.

 

 

 

Job bank :P

 

 

BS!!! I guess you haven't read much about the UAW adding in even more concessions (on top of the earlier ones)? By the time this contract is up the average union salary will be $4.00 above the foreign made auto workers. The UAW is also taking over retiree health care benefits in 2010. Workers will also be starting at a whopping $9 per hour.

 

The union is doing all it can to help out the Big 3. And the Job Bank only has 1,200 employees within it. Not even enough to cry over.

[John Adams]

Yes, it's nice that the leech is starting to let up but it may be too late. I blame the Unions. And I blame management. Both royally !@#$ed up. The condition of American autos couldn't have happened without both.

[finknottle]

BS!!! I guess you haven't read much about the UAW adding in even more concessions (on top of the earlier ones)? By the time this contract is up the average union salary will be $4.00 above the foreign made auto workers. The UAW is also taking over retiree health care benefits in 2010. Workers will also be starting at a whopping $9 per hour.

 

The union is doing all it can to help out the Big 3. And the Job Bank only has 1,200 employees within it. Not even enough to cry over.

 

Remind me why they should be making more than the people we aren't helping?

 

What about management? Instead of all this dollar a year talk, what would you say to bailing them out as long as they only make 4% more than corresponding management at Nissan and Honda?

[pBills]

Remind me why they should be making more than the people we aren't helping?

 

What about management? Instead of all this dollar a year talk, what would you say to bailing them out as long as they only make 4% more than corresponding management at Nissan and Honda?

 

 

 

So $4.00 more is bad for you? It's also about bringing labor cost down to relate to the foreign made vehicles. Not a bad idea. If with the companies in bad shape, I think it would be bad if they undercut the employees that much. Let's face it the employees are losing a ton. Granted in order to keep their jobs but it's got to be a huge lifestyle change.

 

I agree management should have their salaries cut down as well. The $1 for the year is a nice symbolic move, but that has to be changed permanently. I would be happy if they made 2-5 million per year instead of what $14 million.

[bills_fan]

Not fantasy... Watch what becomes when things start crashing down. I am not fear mongering either.

 

Nobody still has answered the question about why many people in this country hate workers who make an above average wage? Why we begrudge them so much? Afterall, they are the one's actually doing the "work", not control of the "work."

 

It is all about where you put your personal priorities and our nation's priorities... In the few or the many families that want to strive to live better. We seem to be heading down the road towards the few because many in this great land can't get past what their neighbor has over them. Hence: "Conditions on the Bailout." How is that for a tie-in? I am actually, on topic for once.

 

Sad.

 

 

Why do you think executive compensation has gotten so much play when it is not even close to the problem? This country is overrun with jealousy over what others have versus what you have. Its completely ridiculous and caters to the lowest common denominator.

[pBills]

Why do you think executive compensation has gotten so much play when it is not even close to the problem? This country is overrun with jealousy over what others have versus what you have. Its completely ridiculous and caters to the lowest common denominator.

 

 

It's not jealously. People are complaining about fiscal responsibility and then you see some CEO get canned for a failing company and receive a severance package worth $70 million +. Compensation is part of the problem... just one of the many levels.

[John Adams]

I love this:

the GM exec will begin his journey from Detroit in a hybrid Malibu capable of 24/32 MPG city/highway.

 

Oooh Ahh...24/32!!!!!!!!!!!! That's the best GM can do? What a joke. I had a car that got 28/35 in 1990.

 

And we wonder if GM deserves to survive?

 

EEI: your turn to tell us how great American cars are.

[pBills]

Why won't you admit that GM and the Big 3 have come along way? Everyone knows that they were behind in creating hybrids.

[bills_fan]

It's not jealously. People are complaining about fiscal responsibility and then you see some CEO get canned for a failing company and receive a severance package worth $70 million +. Compensation is part of the problem... just one of the many levels.

 

 

But that severance package was

 

A- Negotiated at arms length with the board of directors

B- Often includes substantial portions of deferred compensation that the executive could have taken in past years (when times were good) but deferred for whatever reason

C- May also include stock options that are virtually worthless

 

The executive does not receive a check for $70 million

 

It is jealousy...why does it matter if the CEOs of the big 3 took a private jet to DC? It really has no bearing on the company's overall financial health...its dimes in couch cushions.

[finknottle]

It's not jealously. People are complaining about fiscal responsibility and then you see some CEO get canned for a failing company and receive a severance package worth $70 million +. Compensation is part of the problem... just one of the many levels.

 

Fair enough. But how does a retiring autoworker at a failing company compare to his peers at other companies? He gets a severance package way beyond what the others get, and a better health insurance for life. Is his reward not also fiscally irresponsible?

 

Why should those still working pay so that he can maintain a better lifestyle than they do?

[bills_fan]

I love this:

 

 

Oooh Ahh...24/32!!!!!!!!!!!! That's the best GM can do? What a joke. I had a car that got 28/35 in 1990.

 

And we wonder if GM deserves to survive?

 

EEI: your turn to tell us how great American cars are.

 

 

In fairness to the Big 3, they have bypassed the hybrid technology for fuel cell technology which is currently being tested in Westchester County. It is the more promising technology.

 

And I really would not trade my Jeep Wrangler for any other car.

[pBills]

But that severance package was

 

A- Negotiated at arms length with the board of directors

B- Often includes substantial portions of deferred compensation that the executive could have taken in past years (when times were good) but deferred for whatever reason

C- May also include stock options that are virtually worthless

 

The executive does not receive a check for $70 million

 

It is jealousy...why does it matter if the CEOs of the big 3 took a private jet to DC? It really has no bearing on the company's overall financial health...its dimes in couch cushions.

 

 

And you can also add ridiculous. Why should a failed leader gain so much. I also know that it's not a check. I also agree about the complaining over the private jets into DC. Not a big deal to me.

 

I just laugh that there is no question, no thought process, no request for a business plan from companies like AIG. They just hand over money left and right. Yet, there is a huge debate over helping out/loaning the big 3 money.

[GG]

I just laugh that there is no question, no thought process, no request for a business plan from companies like AIG. They just hand over money left and right. Yet, there is a huge debate over helping out/loaning the big 3 money.

 

Because the impact would be more sudden, more severe, more widespread, and more prolonged. Otherwise, they should be considered the same.

[pBills]

Because the impact would be more sudden, more severe, more widespread, and more prolonged. Otherwise, they should be considered the same.

 

 

And yet, even though AIG has wasted money on retreats, they still give. They should have demanded a business plan and a change in leadership before handing anymore money over.

[bills_fan]

And you can also add ridiculous. Why should a failed leader gain so much. I also know that it's not a check. I also agree about the complaining over the private jets into DC. Not a big deal to me.

 

I just laugh that there is no question, no thought process, no request for a business plan from companies like AIG. They just hand over money left and right. Yet, there is a huge debate over helping out/loaning the big 3 money.

 

 

AIG's business plan would have been something like this....

 

Stop writing CDS contracts.

 

Close AIG Financial Products.

 

Keep everything else the same.

 

And it would have been perfectly accepted.

 

The big three have far more complex problems than AIG for many reasons. Its just that AIG going bankrupt would suck in dozens of other institutions due to the CDS contracts and effectively cancel the insuance for many, many homeowners and businesses (remember AIG is the largest insuance company in the world).

[GG]

And yet, even though AIG has wasted money on retreats, they still give. They should have demanded a business plan and a change in leadership before handing anymore money over.

 

And yet, no matter how many times the stupid retreat story has been refuted, you can't help yourself to the steaming pile.

 

Genius, when a global financial firm is on a brink of failure and its collapse can bring the entire financial system to its knees in less than a day, you don't have the flexibility to "demand a business plan." I'm guessing that based on your knowledge, a business plan would qualify if it was a blank piece of paper that said in big bold type "BUSINESS PLAN" on its cover.

 

The company has a business plan. It's to try to stay above water for as long as possible to repay the emergency loan. Part of that includes investing $400k in your sales agents, so they can generate millions in future business.