The Turning Point

[murra]

Beginning at 4-0 the Buffalo Bills appeared to the media as a strong team. Most people who now speak out against us believe it was a result of our easy schedule. While we made comebacks in decent fashion, it was overlooked by our coaching staff's commitment to playing not to loose. The cool thing about playing not to lose is that when you have a lead, you typically hold on to it and win. The bad thing is that it pretty much voids comeback opportunities. Interestingly enough, we were able to win 3 of the 4 games with 4th quarter comebacks.

 

After the Arizona debacle I personally believed it a result of a poor defensive gameplan and playing a good team on the road. Regardless, at this point in the season, I (along with many fans) maintained a fairly optomistic outlook for the rest of the year.

Where did it go wrong? What was this "turning point" (if there is only one)? I think it would be cool if we could all decide together where the team fell apart.

 

Believe it or not, I think it was one pass. Having just beaten San Diego to take that 5-1 record, then falling to Miami, the Bills were rebounding nicely in the beginning of the Jets game. We knew that we could afford to drop one of the three divisional games and still be in great shape. We were marching, in the red zone attempting to take a bigger lead. The bills were leading 7-6. A touchdown, and the first quarter ends 14-6, a field goal, and we're still up 10-6. Instead, Trent catapults a horrendous dud, that goes 97 yards the other way, and we have to play catchup at home again (and this time it isn't Oakland). If we score on that drive, the game is pretty much in our hands. Trent finished with his highest passing yardage game of the season, but that pass began what can only be characterized as a complete meltdown of choke-artist proportions. Sophomore slump or no sophomore slump, he choked in the MNF game last year, choked in our biggest divisional game, and yet again BIG TIME in this year's MNF. The guy is young and maturing, but having a choke-artist reputation is starting to worry me much more than the glove wearing or "phantom" post-concussion illness.

[BeastMode54]

Beginning at 4-0 the Buffalo Bills appeared to the media as a strong team. Most people who now speak out against us believe it was a result of our easy schedule. While we made comebacks in decent fashion, it was overlooked by our coaching staff's commitment to playing not to loose. The cool thing about playing not to lose is that when you have a lead, you typically hold on to it and win. The bad thing is that it pretty much voids comeback opportunities. Interestingly enough, we were able to win 3 of the 4 games with 4th quarter comebacks.

 

After the Arizona debacle I personally believed it a result of a poor defensive gameplan and playing a good team on the road. Regardless, at this point in the season, I (along with many fans) maintained a fairly optomistic outlook for the rest of the year.

Where did it go wrong? What was this "turning point" (if there is only one)? I think it would be cool if we could all decide together where the team fell apart.

 

Believe it or not, I think it was one pass. Having just beaten San Diego to take that 5-1 record, then falling to Miami, the Bills were rebounding nicely in the beginning of the Jets game. We knew that we could afford to drop one of the three divisional games and still be in great shape. We were marching, in the red zone attempting to take a bigger lead. The bills were leading 7-6. A touchdown, and the first quarter ends 14-6, a field goal, and we're still up 10-6. Instead, Trent catapults a horrendous dud, that goes 97 yards the other way, and we have to play catchup at home again (and this time it isn't Oakland). If we score on that drive, the game is pretty much in our hands. Trent finished with his highest passing yardage game of the season, but that pass began what can only be characterized as a complete meltdown of choke-artist proportions. Sophomore slump or no sophomore slump, he choked in the MNF game last year, choked in our biggest divisional game, and yet again BIG TIME in this year's MNF. The guy is young and maturing, but having a choke-artist reputation is starting to worry me much more than the glove wearing or "phantom" post-concussion illness.

 

He did look lost on MNF, but you can't call comeback wins against the Raiders and Jacksonville the result of a choke artist

[The Big Cat]

Beginning at 4-0 the Buffalo Bills appeared to the media as a strong team. Most people who now speak out against us believe it was a result of our easy schedule. While we made comebacks in decent fashion, it was overlooked by our coaching staff's commitment to playing not to loose. The cool thing about playing not to lose is that when you have a lead, you typically hold on to it and win. The bad thing is that it pretty much voids comeback opportunities. Interestingly enough, we were able to win 3 of the 4 games with 4th quarter comebacks.

 

After the Arizona debacle I personally believed it a result of a poor defensive gameplan and playing a good team on the road. Regardless, at this point in the season, I (along with many fans) maintained a fairly optomistic outlook for the rest of the year.

Where did it go wrong? What was this "turning point" (if there is only one)? I think it would be cool if we could all decide together where the team fell apart.

 

Believe it or not, I think it was one pass. Having just beaten San Diego to take that 5-1 record, then falling to Miami, the Bills were rebounding nicely in the beginning of the Jets game. We knew that we could afford to drop one of the three divisional games and still be in great shape. We were marching, in the red zone attempting to take a bigger lead. The bills were leading 7-6. A touchdown, and the first quarter ends 14-6, a field goal, and we're still up 10-6. Instead, Trent catapults a horrendous dud, that goes 97 yards the other way, and we have to play catchup at home again (and this time it isn't Oakland). If we score on that drive, the game is pretty much in our hands. Trent finished with his highest passing yardage game of the season, but that pass began what can only be characterized as a complete meltdown of choke-artist proportions. Sophomore slump or no sophomore slump, he choked in the MNF game last year, choked in our biggest divisional game, and yet again BIG TIME in this year's MNF. The guy is young and maturing, but having a choke-artist reputation is starting to worry me much more than the glove wearing or "phantom" post-concussion illness.

 

This whole "playing not to lose" theory is utterly BOGUS. I

[murra]

He did look lost on MNF, but you can't call comeback wins against the Raiders and Jacksonville the result of a choke artist

 

No, that's why I prefaced my post chronicling how we were winning, and that the team looked sharp. My point isn't just that Trent is a choke-artist, but that the one pass against the Jets possibly was the season, and him being a choke-artist hasn't helped us at all when needed. I'm blaming Trent for the season more than the coaches because I believe if he makes that throw (well, if he doesn't throw it at all I should say), we could literally be looking at a playoff team.

 

Now, I'm prepared for people to suggest that maybe we're not that good, and yes we've only beaten teams with losing records, but there is pretty much one similar play in each of our losses (save the Arizona game) that can be turned around and we have a solid record on our hands.

 

I won't complain with any overhaul of the coaches, I'm just trying to ignore all that for a moment and focus on why this season went from success to failure.

[murra]

This whole "playing not to lose" theory is utterly BOGUS. I

 

I agree. I'm trying to say, however, that people who blame the season on that theory are wrong, you can look elsewhere.

 

Look, I hate DJ as much as the next guy, I'm just trying to find other sources of failure that made us go from 5-1 to 6-6.

[The Big Cat]

I agree. I'm trying to say, however, that people who blame the season on that theory are wrong, you can look elsewhere.

 

Look, I hate DJ as much as the next guy, I'm just trying to find other sources of failure that made us go from 5-1 to 6-6.

 

We don't have a center who can handle 3-4 NT's. All our division opponents play 3-4.

 

We don't have a number 2 WR who knows how to get open when Reed's injured.

 

We have 2/3 of LB corps.

 

We have a rookie OC who calls plays for a second year QB that won't and/or can't make all the throws that are drawn up for him.

 

None of our opponents in the first four weeks had the chance to exploit these weaknesses.

[BuffaloWings]

This whole "playing not to lose" theory is utterly BOGUS. I

Why? I think it's a HUGE part of the skid.

 

Ever since Trent threw a pick and fumbled in Miami, the play-calling started going conservative. Then the more he made mistakes, the more conservative the play-calling got. This really snowballed into the coaching staff over-thinking the situations and out-coaching themselves. Hence...the settling for a 47-yard FG against Cleveland and the throws on 2nd/3rd & goal from the 1.

 

You can go conservative for a little bit, but the aggression needs to return once the opponents think you're playing not to lose. That never happened.

[Captain Quint]

I tend to agree with the after-effects of that pass on our season, but I think that it didn't really have anything to do with choking. I chalk that up to a young player making a stupid throw.

 

However, after the throw and subsequent touchdown, he should have come out fired up and try to right his wrong. Instead, he came out, checked down on every throw for the next month, and never threw the ball down the field despite having open receivers.

 

Basically, the problem wasn't the throw itself, it was the response to it that troubles me. The blame can be spread not only to Edwards, but also the coaching staff for not being able to settle him down. Good QB coaches & head coaches have ways of making young players forget their stupid mistakes, but apparently, this one is taking all season to correct.

 

Either its a slow reaction curve from the Stanford grad or the coaches didn't do the right things or say the right things when he needed it.

[murra]

I tend to agree with the after-effects of that pass on our season, but I think that it didn't really have anything to do with choking. I chalk that up to a young player making a stupid throw.

 

However, after the throw and subsequent touchdown, he should have come out fired up and try to right his wrong. Instead, he came out, checked down on every throw for the next month, and never threw the ball down the field despite having open receivers.

 

Basically, the problem wasn't the throw itself, it was the response to it that troubles me. The blame can be spread not only to Edwards, but also the coaching staff for not being able to settle him down. Good QB coaches & head coaches have ways of making young players forget their stupid mistakes, but apparently, this one is taking all season to correct.

 

Either its a slow reaction curve from the Stanford grad or the coaches didn't do the right things or say the right things when he needed it.

 

You're on to something. I think after that play, which helped propel our losing streak, Trent did not come out gunning for wins. He was still calm and complacent, and that led to boring football, checkk-down passes, and ultimately interceptions (Browns Game) and losses.

 

I call him a choke-artist, but you're probably right, my real issue with him is that he doesn't respond well to failure. Most people were happy that throwing picks doesn't affect him, but as we found out, it does...in a big big way.

[The Big Cat]

Why? I think it's a HUGE part of the skid.

 

Ever since Trent threw a pick and fumbled in Miami, the play-calling started going conservative. Then the more he made mistakes, the more conservative the play-calling got. This really snowballed into the coaching staff over-thinking the situations and out-coaching themselves. Hence...the settling for a 47-yard FG against Cleveland and the throws on 2nd/3rd & goal from the 1.

 

You can go conservative for a little bit, but the aggression needs to return once the opponents think you're playing not to lose. That never happened.

 

Conservative play calling, huh?

 

So you don't think Schonert EVER sends a WR on a deep route that goes ignored by Trent? If you belive this, you're flat out wrong. Trent will ONLY throw down field if the WR is WIDE open. That's called conservative QUARTERBACKING.

 

Do you think that passing inside the 5 yard line is conservative? Because half the people who agree with you about Jauron being a crappy coach will cite the plays called close to the goal line as his Achilles heel. Lynch ran a whopping 16 times yesterday. Where's the conservatism in that?

[murra]

Conservative play calling, huh?

 

So you don't think Schonert EVER sends a WR on a deep route that goes ignored by Trent? If you belive this, you're flat out wrong. Trent will ONLY throw down field if the WR is WIDE open. That's called conservative QUARTERBACKING.

 

Do you think that passing inside the 5 yard line is conservative? Because half the people who agree with you about Jauron being a crappy coach will cite the plays called close to the goal line as his Achilles heel. Lynch ran a whopping 16 times yesterday. Where's the conservatism in that?

 

I agree. I'm glad we're on the same page...I think you didn't quite understand my initial post, because you seemed to be trying to dissent my argument, but we're making the same points...the conservative play calling is much less a factor to our losses as the conservative quarterbacking.

[Poeticlaw]

Where did it go wrong? What was this "turning point" (if there is only one)? I think it would be cool if we could all decide together where the team fell apart.

 

IT was believing this team was better than then they really were.

 

Really look at it. We got the handicapped (walking wounded) Seahawks and looked good in all phases, barely pulled the win out against Jax, Oak was beating us up and barely pulled that one out. THe score looked like we crushed STL but STL played an unbelievable game leading us 14-6 until 5 minutes left in the 3rd qtr and then they had a complete collapse in the 4th qtr a game they should ahve won but lost their coach and We had two weeks to prepare for SD and they havent looked good all season. The team we were against arizona is the team we have been ever since and its the same team we were last year and the year before that.

 

The fact was we were all isn such disbelief about thm winning we sai nothing, we disected nothing we hoped that the positive of winning and stating only positive things about them winning would carry us until the reality set in that this team is no better and wasnt anything but a string of luck against the teams they faced in the first half. The teams were only 2-16 lets say it again the OPPOSING TEAM COMBIBNED RECORD was 2-16.

[The Big Cat]

I agree. I'm glad we're on the same page...I think you didn't quite understand my initial post, because you seemed to be trying to dissent my argument, but we're making the same points...the conservative play calling is much less a factor to our losses as the conservative quarterbacking.

 

That was meant for BuffaloWings.

 

Personally, I don't know how you can blame conservative QB'ing on the coach. The problem is, they don't have another option. If we could put Losman's balls below Edwards brain, we'd have a hell of a quarterback. Instead, we've got a guy who throws the deep ball, and a guy who throws the short ball. If you bench the short ball guy, you get nothing but the long ball. SF knew this yesterday and played a COMPLETELY different defense in the second half, and gave up the short stuff, as opposed to the long ones.

 

To me, if you're drawing up deep routes, SOMEWHERE along the line, SOMEONE'S telling your quarterback to throw it deep. If not Schonert, then Van Pelt. If not Van Pelt, then Hackett. This team has 18 coaches, and you assume the message doesn't get to where it needs to go? And you assume its the HEAD coach that's not doing his job? C'mon.

[Rubes]

Believe it or not, I think it was one pass. Having just beaten San Diego to take that 5-1 record, then falling to Miami, the Bills were rebounding nicely in the beginning of the Jets game. We knew that we could afford to drop one of the three divisional games and still be in great shape. We were marching, in the red zone attempting to take a bigger lead. The bills were leading 7-6. A touchdown, and the first quarter ends 14-6, a field goal, and we're still up 10-6. Instead, Trent catapults a horrendous dud, that goes 97 yards the other way, and we have to play catchup at home again (and this time it isn't Oakland). If we score on that drive, the game is pretty much in our hands. Trent finished with his highest passing yardage game of the season, but that pass began what can only be characterized as a complete meltdown of choke-artist proportions. Sophomore slump or no sophomore slump, he choked in the MNF game last year, choked in our biggest divisional game, and yet again BIG TIME in this year's MNF. The guy is young and maturing, but having a choke-artist reputation is starting to worry me much more than the glove wearing or "phantom" post-concussion illness.

 

You know, I actually thought about this as well a little while ago, and I agree it might have been one pass, but not that one. I thought it was the one a couple of plays before that, when Trent threw a perfectly set up screen pass to Freddie Jackson in the flat. Freddie had two blockers and a wide open field in front of him, and he dropped the ball. That would have been 6 for certain.

 

After the play, I told my uncle that dropped ball is going to come back and haunt us. Couple plays later, Trent throws the pick-6, and we still haven't recovered.

 

Ah, crap.

[crackur]

Conservative play calling, huh?

 

So you don't think Schonert EVER sends a WR on a deep route that goes ignored by Trent? If you belive this, you're flat out wrong. Trent will ONLY throw down field if the WR is WIDE open. That's called conservative QUARTERBACKING.

 

Do you think that passing inside the 5 yard line is conservative? Because half the people who agree with you about Jauron being a crappy coach will cite the plays called close to the goal line as his Achilles heel. Lynch ran a whopping 16 times yesterday. Where's the conservatism in that?

sorry but you are wrong........the throws to lee downfield are spot on and lee makes the grab........those have not been conservative but just good plays on both parts

 

you need to either go to the games or get directv kiddo...........because your blind

[Ramius]

The turning point was when we started playing teams that are going to win more than 5 games this season.

[The Big Cat]

You know, I actually thought about this as well a little while ago, and I agree it might have been one pass, but not that one. I thought it was the one a couple of plays before that, when Trent threw a perfectly set up screen pass to Freddie Jackson in the flat. Freddie had two blockers and a wide open field in front of him, and he dropped the ball. That would have been 6 for certain.

 

After the play, I told my uncle that dropped ball is going to come back and haunt us. Couple plays later, Trent throws the pick-6, and we still haven't recovered.

 

Ah, crap.

 

I remember that play distinctly, and yes it would have gone for six. Instead, we punted then gave up another score- the result? More than a 10 point swing in a game decided by 9.

[The Big Cat]

sorry but you are wrong........the throws to lee downfield are spot on and lee makes the grab........those have not been conservative but just good plays on both parts

 

you need to either go to the games or get directv kiddo...........because your blind

 

Yeah, and he's been wide open each of the three times this has happened this year. Watch highlights of other teams play and then tell me Trent throws completions into traffic ten or more yards down the field. Better yet, tell me Trent even TRIES to throw completions into traffic. There's college open and there's NFL open- Trent hasn't yet figured out the latter.

[murra]

You know, I actually thought about this as well a little while ago, and I agree it might have been one pass, but not that one. I thought it was the one a couple of plays before that, when Trent threw a perfectly set up screen pass to Freddie Jackson in the flat. Freddie had two blockers and a wide open field in front of him, and he dropped the ball. That would have been 6 for certain.

 

After the play, I told my uncle that dropped ball is going to come back and haunt us. Couple plays later, Trent throws the pick-6, and we still haven't recovered.

 

Ah, crap.

 

I think you're right. Jackson's drop was pivotal also. I think TE's pick was obviously worse because it has continually effected Trent, and also is the reason we lost that game.

 

I still believe that no matter which pass it was, the first quarter of the Jets game seems to have more of an effect on the Bills current record than most people seem to realize.

[C.Biscuit97]

No, that's why I prefaced my post chronicling how we were winning, and that the team looked sharp. My point isn't just that Trent is a choke-artist, but that the one pass against the Jets possibly was the season, and him being a choke-artist hasn't helped us at all when needed. I'm blaming Trent for the season more than the coaches because I believe if he makes that throw (well, if he doesn't throw it at all I should say), we could literally be looking at a playoff team.

 

Now, I'm prepared for people to suggest that maybe we're not that good, and yes we've only beaten teams with losing records, but there is pretty much one similar play in each of our losses (save the Arizona game) that can be turned around and we have a solid record on our hands.

 

I won't complain with any overhaul of the coaches, I'm just trying to ignore all that for a moment and focus on why this season went from success to failure.

 

 

Really, you're blaming a 25 year old, 2nd year QB? That is jsut stupid. Maybe if we don't have Edwards weren't 2-10 instead of 6-6.

 

As frustrating as it is, this is still a very young team that started off extremely well and raise expectations beyond what they should have been.