molson_golden2002 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 People are angry somewhere out there! http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=9395762 "I've lost friends over this issue. What it has done to us is terrible," said Heather Lanphear, a Woodbury parent. It's a town divided-- divided about how students in this school spend two minutes of their day. Students at Woodbury Elementary School stopped saying the Pledge of Allegiance last spring. No one is sure exactly when or why the ritual stopped. "It was eliminated for unspecified reasons. No one in the community had been notified," said Ted Tedesco, who supports the recitation of the Pledge in school. "It was never a decision not to say the pledge," Lanphear said. "It was never one day-- that's it. It never went down like that." The Pledge returned to the school this past September on a weekly basis. But many parents still weren't satisfied. A petition began to circulate... Within weeks, more than 300 residents had signed demanding the Pledge be recited daily. The school responded with a new policy. While the Pledge isn't recited in the classroom-- it is how the school's 55 students now start their day every day of the week. Instead every morning the students are led out of the classroom and into a common space, where they recite the Pledge of Allegiance together, as a school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I know....terrible thing that students are taught a little love of Country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 I know....terrible thing that students are taught a little love of Country. Does the kid get in trouble if he refuses to conform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Does the kid get in trouble if he refuses to conform? If the kid doesnt conform to or participate in "undertaking a jihad" or reading about "my two daddys" does he get in trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I know....terrible thing that students are taught a little love of Country. I think this is a bulls#it issue, on both sides. There are far bigger concerns, IMO, than the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance. I think those on either sides of these kinds of issues should find more important issues to address...but, that's me. But, let's be clear on one thing...being forced to repeat a "pledge" every day, does very little, if anything, to teach love of country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I think this is a bulls#it issue, on both sides. There are far bigger concerns, IMO, than the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance. I think those on either sides of these kinds of issues should find more important issues to address...but, that's me. But, let's be clear on one thing...being forced to repeat a "pledge" every day, does very little, if anything, to teach love of country. I dont think its a BS issue at all. There arent enough activities like this. Reciting the Pledge, civics courses, more detailed teaching of American history, etc. Schools are not doing a good job of teaching "the American Experience", IMO. Bu....youre making it sound like the kids are "forced" or "coerced" here. I really doubt thats the case. Can anyone harken back to their days in elementary school and remember feeling "forced" to recite the Pledge? I cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I know....terrible thing that students are taught a little love of Country. Now that the Messiah is President, I'm sure they're going to start teaching love of country again. Now that Michelle is proud of her country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Change Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I dont think its a BS issue at all. There arent enough activities like this. Reciting the Pledge, civics courses, more detailed teaching of American history, etc. Schools are not doing a good job of teaching "the American Experience", IMO. Bu....youre making it sound like the kids are "forced" or "coerced" here. I really doubt thats the case. Can anyone harken back to their days in elementary school and remember feeling "forced" to recite the Pledge? I cant. Agreed. What's wrong with civic pride? We need more not less of this. Just another chip away at the foundation of our society. When the house caves in on itself in the name of 'diversity' some will be wondering what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I dont think its a BS issue at all. There arent enough activities like this. Reciting the Pledge, civics courses, more detailed teaching of American history, etc. Schools are not doing a good job of teaching "the American Experience", IMO. Bu....youre making it sound like the kids are "forced" or "coerced" here. I really doubt thats the case. Can anyone harken back to their days in elementary school and remember feeling "forced" to recite the Pledge? I cant. When I was in grade school (and I think even Jr High), we were absolutely FORCED to recite the Pledge in grade school. Refusal to actively recite led to discipline, period. But, even if the school didn't force us to recite it, social forces of the school yard would likely rear its ugly head. But, back to the real issue. Memorizing and parroting, a pledge or a prayer, does nothing to teach you the foundation for of the text in question. It simply teaches you to do what authority tells you to do. Learning about the Pledge, or the Lord's prayer (for example), is another thing, entirely. Of course American school children should learn the Pledge of Allegiance and discuss its meaning. I'm fairly certain they still do, although I can't speak to every class or school district. I do hope they learn to question the objectivity and veracity of the history they are being taught, as well. When I went to school, we were taught a very stilted view of history, and were told that it was TRUTH, not one version of what transpired, with the warts well covered. Now, I think a good option for a school, is to allow a moment, before the school day begins, for students to reflect/pray/pledge/meditate to themselves, in any way that they choose. Meaningful discussions of the choices, different students make, might be an excellent exercise for examining the differences in cultures, religions, nationalities, etc. In any event, what you CHOOSE to do is far more meaningful that what you are FORCED to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Agreed. What's wrong with civic pride? We need more not less of this. Just another chip away at the foundation of our society. When the house caves in on itself in the name of 'diversity' some will be wondering what happened. I assume your post, and your whole persona, is a sarcastic joke. But, if not, and since there are some that seriously espouse this simple-minded view, I say: Unfortunately for you, and your ilk, the days where the only acceptable world view, for Americans, is that of White Christians from European descent, is over. You can embrace the diversity and the opportunity it brings, and get ready to face the challenges and problems that are part of the package. Those that acknowledge the new realities are in a better position to help shape the course they take. But, beware! They will continue to march forward, and will not be stopped and/or reversed. It isn't 1950, anymore. The other choice is to be a fossil, cursing at the "good old days" while you watch the country race toward its inevitable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Seems to me that forcing grade-school age kids to recite like unthinking zombies a pledge to a piece of cloth is antithetical to the idea that it represents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Seems to me that forcing grade-school age kids to recite like unthinking zombies a pledge to a piece of cloth is antithetical to the idea that it represents. Last I checked, the American Flag doesnt represent anarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Last I checked, the American Flag doesnt represent anarchy. When did anarchy come into the conversation? In your mind, is it "children programed to believe some particular propaganda", or "anarchy"? Can't get much more black and white than that, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I assume your post, and your whole persona, is a sarcastic joke. But, if not, and since there are some that seriously espouse this simple-minded view, I say: Unfortunately for you, and your ilk, the days where the only acceptable world view, for Americans, is that of White Christians from European descent, is over. You can embrace the diversity and the opportunity it brings, and get ready to face the challenges and problems that are part of the package. Those that acknowledge the new realities are in a better position to help shape the course they take. But, beware! They will continue to march forward, and will not be stopped and/or reversed. It isn't 1950, anymore. The other choice is to be a fossil, cursing at the "good old days" while you watch the country race toward its inevitable future. You mention diversity, yet fail to note that in most cases its a forced endeavor. Its "you must hire at least XX per cent of your workforce from "diverse" classes of people" or other such nonsense. The practice of encouraging diversity is rarely done without being forced, often by law or loss of business for non compliance. So...to rail against what youre calling coercion to recite a Pledge, yet at the same time embrace the concept of "diversity" is a bit questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 When did anarchy come into the conversation? In your mind, is it "children programed to believe some particular propaganda", or "anarchy"? Can't get much more black and white than that, I guess. Mr. Coli can speak for himself but he seems to be pushing that old far left nonsense that any kind of conformation to authority.... in this case, reciting a Pledge to our Nation's Flag, is automatically "bad." Just like that other line of BS, that any kind of "non-diverse" enviornment is also automatically "bad." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Change Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Now that the Messiah is President, I'm sure they're going to start teaching love of country again. Now that Michelle is proud of her country I'm proud that Michelle is proud. It makes me all warm and tingly up my leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 You mention diversity, yet fail to note that in most cases its a forced endeavor. Its "you must hire at least XX per cent of your workforce from "diverse" classes of people" or other such nonsense. The practice of encouraging diversity is rarely done without being forced. So...to rail against what youre calling coercion to recite a Pledge, yet embrace the concept of "diversity" is a bit questionable. Wow, are you out of touch. Where do you find quotas anymore? Quotas were, for the most part, a necessary evil, and one of the few ways to get those who control hiring, and entrance, to actually allow minorities into their all-white fields and institutions. For the most part, quotas have given way to affirmative action, which requires those gatekeepers to actively recruit and consider those traditionally underrepresented in the workplace/schools/etc. While some don't like the concept of affirmative action for minorities, it is still necessary to combat the affirmative action the upper classes already enjoy, IMO. Slowly, as the diversity that exists in our culture is apparent in the workforce, management, ownership, student bodies, faculty and administration, government, etc, then official "affirmative action" will have less impact, and be less of an issue. But, if you are suggesting that those in power (White Christian's of European descent) are just going to naturally accept the diversity and share the fruits gained, in large part, at the expense of those minorities, then you are naive. Unfortunately, those with the power don't want to share it, and complain loudly when any of it is taken, or acquired, by others outside of their circle. The fact that White people complain that they didn't get a job because a less-qualified minority got it instead, or Christians complain that the city won't allow their religious accouterments to occupy public land, is laughable to me. For many many years, minorities weren't even considered for jobs, regardless of their qualifications? Did cities support the religious celebrations of Jews and Muslims with public money and land? Yes, the people who have been in power, for all these years, might feel a little pain when, long overdue mind you, the pendulum swings the other way, a tad. Sorry if I don't weep for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Mr. Coli can speak for himself but he seems to be pushing that old far left nonsense that any kind of conformation to authority.... in this case, reciting a Pledge to our Nation's Flag, is automatically "bad." Just like that other line of BS, that any kind of "non-diverse" enviornment is also automatically "bad." There is nothing wrong, IMO, with reciting a pledge to a piece of cloth, if you choose to do it. There is a lot wrong, with being COMPELLED or programmed to recite a pledge to a piece of cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Seems to me that forcing grade-school age kids to recite like unthinking zombies a pledge to a piece of cloth is antithetical to the idea that it represents. I thought the idea was to inspire patriotism...in which case it seems spot-on to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Last I checked, the American Flag doesnt represent anarchy. It represents freedom to think and act freely, without being forced to do so. How is mandatory recitation by six-year-olds espousing freedom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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