Cripes - what is the matter with people?

[Wacka]

The Toys R US shooting , they said was not over a toy. Two women started fighting and then their guys did. Likely a gang thing, as the store is not in a good neighborhood.

[gmac17]

this seems to be the stores fault as much as anyone's

 

You can't expect any one of the people to be able to stop and help the guy up - they probably would have been trampled themselves. The people in the front of the line can't stop - they were being pushed from behind by 500 people. It is the store's fault for allowing 1500 people to crowd around an entrance.

[mcjeff215]

this seems to be the stores fault as much as anyone's

 

You can't expect any one of the people to be able to stop and help the guy up - they probably would have been trampled themselves. The people in the front of the line can't stop - they were being pushed from behind by 500 people. It is the store's fault for allowing 1500 people to crowd around an entrance.

 

Could go either way. The store *wants* the crowds, obviously. Unless they did something negligent, like mop the floor 30 seconds before they opened the door, I think it falls on the shoulders of the shoppers. Sounds like a classic case of people just sucking and not respecting a line and order of arrival.

 

They'll start doing the lotteries before long, much like they did with concert tickets back in the early 1990s. Used to be you'd wait in line for hours and hours to get good seats. They killed that with a lottery system such that the guy that gets there at 7:59 has the same chance a the guy that slept there.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Could go either way. The store *wants* the crowds, obviously. Unless they did something negligent, like mop the floor 30 seconds before they opened the door, I think it falls on the shoulders of the shoppers. Sounds like a classic case of people just sucking and not respecting a line and order of arrival.

 

They'll start doing the lotteries before long, much like they did with concert tickets back in the early 1990s. Used to be you'd wait in line for hours and hours to get good seats. They killed that with a lottery system such that the guy that gets there at 7:59 has the same chance a the guy that slept there.

 

Remember The Who concert and "festival seating" back in 1979... 11 people died.

[bills_fan]

this seems to be the stores fault as much as anyone's

 

You can't expect any one of the people to be able to stop and help the guy up - they probably would have been trampled themselves. The people in the front of the line can't stop - they were being pushed from behind by 500 people. It is the store's fault for allowing 1500 people to crowd around an entrance.

 

 

Apparently the security guard who was killed jumped in front of a preganat lady and shielded her from the crowd.

 

Link

 

There really needs to be some charges brought here. You have a pool of about 2000 people, most who purchased via credit card. You have names and security footage. Link them up and bring charges against these people. It is very likely that the charges will not stick (can you determine which stomp actually caused the death?), but I'd be willing to use my taxpayer money to out the azzholes responsible for this.

[Bmwolf21]

Could go either way. The store *wants* the crowds, obviously. Unless they did something negligent, like mop the floor 30 seconds before they opened the door, I think it falls on the shoulders of the shoppers. Sounds like a classic case of people just sucking and not respecting a line and order of arrival.

Then I'd have to ask why it seems that this stuff seems to happen more often at Wal-Mart and not other places like Best Buy, Target, etc., who coincidentally issue tickets for the big sale items so there isn't a stampede? By not coming up with a better procedure for selling those "hot items" Wal-Mart is helping to create an aggressive atmosphere, encouraging people to use prison rules to make sure they get a big-screen TV.

 

Don't misinterpret this as letting the people who charged the store off the hook, though - they are responsible for their actions. But WalMart has to take responsibility for not having a better plan in place and for not anticipating these kinds of risks.

[Acantha]

Then I'd have to ask why it seems that this stuff seems to happen more often at Wal-Mart and not other places like Best Buy, Target, etc., who coincidentally issue tickets for the big sale items so there isn't a stampede? By not coming up with a better procedure for selling those "hot items" Wal-Mart is helping to create an aggressive atmosphere, encouraging people to use prison rules to make sure they get a big-screen TV.

 

Don't misinterpret this as letting the people who charged the store off the hook, though - they are responsible for their actions. But WalMart has to take responsibility for not having a better plan in place and for not anticipating these kinds of risks.

Big screen TV's don't kill people...people kill people.

 

I'm sorry, but a bunch of pathetic !@#$s breaking down a door and stampeding into a store has nothing to do with the store. There's no way Wal-Mart should have to set up extra rules so that shoppers don't KILL during their shopping. It's disgusting, and blaming anyone other than those that actually did it is just as disgusting.

[Bmwolf21]

Big screen TV's don't kill people...people kill people.

 

I'm sorry, but a bunch of pathetic !@#$s breaking down a door and stampeding into a store has nothing to do with the store. There's no way Wal-Mart should have to set up extra rules so that shoppers don't KILL during their shopping. It's disgusting, and blaming anyone other than those that actually did it is just as disgusting.

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?

 

Don't misinterpret this as letting the people who charged the store off the hook, though - they are responsible for their actions. But WalMart has to take responsibility for not having a better plan in place and for not anticipating these kinds of risks.

 

Every other store sets up extra rules so this kind of thing doesn't happen - Best Buy, Target, etc all did the ticket vouchers for sale items? What I'm saying is that Wal-Mart sure as hell could have done things differently to help make sure that people didn't stampede their door.

[Acantha]

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?

 

Don't misinterpret this as letting the people who charged the store off the hook, though - they are responsible for their actions. But WalMart has to take responsibility for not having a better plan in place and for not anticipating these kinds of risks.

 

Every other store sets up extra rules so this kind of thing doesn't happen - Best Buy, Target, etc all did the ticket vouchers for sale items? What I'm saying is that Wal-Mart sure as hell could have done things differently to help make sure that people didn't stampede their door.

I didn't misread, I disagreed. Finding other people to blame, even if it's to share the blame, is still bull. Those people are responsible for their actions, period. Can't speak for you, but I don't need extra rules set up so that I don't act like an animal and kill people. But hey, guess we're not all so self sufficient.

[Bmwolf21]

I didn't misread, I disagreed. Finding other people to blame, even if it's to share the blame, is still bull. Those people are responsible for their actions, period. Can't speak for you, but I don't need extra rules set up so that I don't act like an animal and kill people. But hey, guess we're not all so self sufficient.

Whatever. Other stores seem to be more proactive and don't seem to have the kinds of problems that Wal-Mart has, but it must just be the animals running into the store.

 

Can't speak for you, but IMO completely absolving Wal-Mart of any blame is completely asinine. But I guess I don't see the world in such black-and-white terms.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Apparently the security guard who was killed jumped in front of a preganat lady and shielded her from the crowd.

 

Link

 

There really needs to be some charges brought here. You have a pool of about 2000 people, most who purchased via credit card. You have names and security footage. Link them up and bring charges against these people. It is very likely that the charges will not stick (can you determine which stomp actually caused the death?), but I'd be willing to use my taxpayer money to out the azzholes responsible for this.

 

Again... They were all in the store... Like rats in a vat... Let them shop and then when the walk out... Take the people leaving aside and get their info and picture ID.

 

I know it was a cluster phuck... But, it doesn't preclude doing an investigation... There was some time to gather the info... Afterall, the shoppers were in the store.

 

I mean... There was a death... I don't think this violates any rights?

 

??

[ExiledInIllinois]

I didn't misread, I disagreed. Finding other people to blame, even if it's to share the blame, is still bull. Those people are responsible for their actions, period. Can't speak for you, but I don't need extra rules set up so that I don't act like an animal and kill people. But hey, guess we're not all so self sufficient.

 

It is easier to control one store than it is 2,000 shoppers. Expecting all 2,000 to do the right thing is naive. We don't live in a perfect world. Mobs are mobs.

 

Of course people are responsible... But, you can to the end of time and the crazy crap will continue.

 

The point is to stop the crazy crap from happening as much as you can... And in this case there is a workable way... Wal-Mart refuses.

 

I agree with your ideals... Yet, let's be pragmatic here.

[The Poojer]

hear hear....i dont need wal mart to assist me in how to act in public...that was my parents job and those around me, and they taught me to eventually do that myself...who cares what best buy, target, CIRCUIT CITY does, doesnt affect how I behave

 

I didn't misread, I disagreed. Finding other people to blame, even if it's to share the blame, is still bull. Those people are responsible for their actions, period. Can't speak for you, but I don't need extra rules set up so that I don't act like an animal and kill people. But hey, guess we're not all so self sufficient.

[Bmwolf21]

It is easier to control one store than it is 2,000 shoppers. Expecting all 2,000 to do the right thing is naive. We don't live in a perfect world. Mobs are mobs.

 

Of course people are responsible... But, you can to the end of time and the crazy crap will continue.

 

The point is to stop the crazy crap from happening as much as you can... And in this case there is a workable way... Wal-Mart refuses.

 

I agree with your ideals... Yet, let's be pragmatic here.

EXACTLY.

 

I mean no kidding, 99% of the posters on here aren't going to go to WalMart in Black Friday and behave like savages and !@#$s, and they don't need extra rules to keep them from hurting someone. No schitt. And I agree completely that it sucks that stores need to mitigate that risk and prepare for people to act like complete morons. But obviously the people who went to WalMart on Long Island were the types who DO need extra rules and security to ensure that they didn't hurt themselves or others (like the poor store employee) and WalMart obviously knew there was a chance that something bad could happen, since they consulted with police and added security personnel and put up barricades.

[Acantha]

It is easier to control one store than it is 2,000 shoppers. Expecting all 2,000 to do the right thing is naive. We don't live in a perfect world. Mobs are mobs.

 

Of course people are responsible... But, you can to the end of time and the crazy crap will continue.

 

The point is to stop the crazy crap from happening as much as you can... And in this case there is a workable way... Wal-Mart refuses.

 

I agree with your ideals... Yet, let's be pragmatic here.

I think expecting them to act like idiots is one thing, expecting them to trample and kill people is another. Look, I'm not disagreeing with the idea of putting things in place to make things more orderly, and if it had been a point of this crowd breakind down the door and causing damage to the store, then this Wal-Mart got what they deserved. I'm disagreeing with WalMart having blame in that crowd killing someone. And no, I don't consider this some accidental death. These people not only didn't care that they were hurting someone, they didn't care after the fact either. The crowd takes the blame.

[stuckincincy]

Lawsuit ?

Big lawsuit.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I think expecting them to act like idiots is one thing, expecting them to trample and kill people is another. Look, I'm not disagreeing with the idea of putting things in place to make things more orderly, and if it had been a point of this crowd breakind down the door and causing damage to the store, then this Wal-Mart got what they deserved. I'm disagreeing with WalMart having blame in that crowd killing someone. And no, I don't consider this some accidental death. These people not only didn't care that they were hurting someone, they didn't care after the fact either. The crowd takes the blame.

 

Ya... But in this case... Once sh*t starts roling downhill... Is is hard to stop. And Wal-Mart should know that. Well, actually Wal-Mart doesn't know that considering all the other practices they engage in. IMO, they play ignorant...

 

This situation is like parking a vehicle on steep hill without putting on the e-brake, turning the tires to the curb, or without total preventive measure like choking the wheels... Wal-mart did NOTHING. Now a child comes along skateboarding (Again... Not so innoucously becuase they may be using the vehicle as leverage, balance or something else)... Now the vehicle breaks free... Who do you blame? Are you gonna yell at the car? Of course you partially blame the child... If they wouldn't been there, then maybe nothing... But the real blame is the vehicle's owner who took very little (in this case NONE) preventive measure to begin with. Who knows, the catalyst could have been something else like an outside force (the skateboarder... In this case, Wal-Mart's marketing) or and inside force (the transmission of the vehicle... In this case the people waiting). Any one preventive measure would have exonarated the vehicle's owner (Wal-Mart) in my eyes.

 

Wal-Mart is to blame here more. This was a tinder box ready to go up... And it did. We will see how the Wal-Mart lawyers play this? IMO I fear, the blame will be twisted and forced back on the vehicle's transmission (the people). That is what Wal-Mart is famous for doing.

[Just Jack]

New reports that I heard on the news last night (can't find a link though to verify) is that it started when an employee said they would be doing a ticket system for door busters and people started fighting to get to the front of the line to get the tickets. Also the guy was a big dude, something like 6'4" and 275lbs, not a little weakling like me.

[ExiledInIllinois]

New reports that I heard on the news last night (can't find a link though to verify) is that it started when an employee said they would be doing a ticket system for door busters and people started fighting to get to the front of the line to get the tickets. Also the guy was a big dude, something like 6'4" and 275lbs, not a little weakling like me.

Supposewdly he also got in the way to protect a pregnant woman?

 

Sounds honorable... But I have to ask the question... What the phuck was a pregnant woman doing in that throng of people?

 

 

If that was my wife... I would drag her out of there (early) faster than she could drag me out of bar during the pregnancy...

[Acantha]

This situation is like parking a vehicle on steep hill without putting on the e-brake, turning the tires to the curb, or without total preventive measure like choking the wheels... Wal-mart did NOTHING. Now a child comes along skateboarding (Again... Not so innoucously becuase they may be using the vehicle as leverage, balance or something else)... Now the vehicle breaks free... Who do you blame? Are you gonna yell at the car? Of course you partially blame the child... If they wouldn't been there, then maybe nothing... But the real blame is the vehicle's owner who took very little (in this case NONE) preventive measure to begin with. Who knows, the catalyst could have been something else like an outside force (the skateboarder... In this case, Wal-Mart's marketing) or and inside force (the transmission of the vehicle... In this case the people waiting). Any one preventive measure would have exonarated the vehicle's owner (Wal-Mart) in my eyes.

Seriously?

 

Once the car has free will, try this again.