Trade Roscoe Parrish during the offseason??

[Paup 1995MVP]

Then why is Evans playing at a higher level as is Reed (when healthy) Parrish is now a veteran not a rookie. My point is that he has talent and the Bills can get something in return for it (no pun intended). Keeping a guy on the roster simply to return punts takes up a very valuable roster spot.

 

Also, to the other comments - agreed we should not give him away - the trade has to offer real value but like I said .. a second rounder ... a good mix of stuff moving us up (meaningfully) in the first round and maybe getting another pick to go with it .. who would pass it up?

Stevie Johnson will hopefully become a very good slot receiver. I think he has way more upside than Roscoe as a receiver. I would definitely trade Roscoe for a third round pick. He is not a consistent factor in the offense. McKelvin and Fred Jackson are both good returners. We will not get more than a 3rd for Roscoe because he is not a major contributor on offense because he is too small and is frequently injured.

[BuffaloBill]

Stevie Johnson will hopefully become a very good slot receiver. I think he has way more upside than Roscoe as a receiver. I would definitely trade Roscoe for a third round pick. He is not a consistent factor in the offense. McKelvin and Fred Jackson are both good returners. We will not get more than a 3rd for Roscoe because he is not a major contributor on offense because he is too small and is frequently injured.

 

 

This year (offseason)is probably the best chance to get it done. Cap friendly deal already in place. Likely to lead the league in punt returns and has enough speed to still be perceived as a recieing threat. However, as I have said in other posts his threat as a receiver is far too hyped. His stats as a receiver barely resister. He averages a little better than 1 catch per game (slightly better because of games missed so in reality 1.5 to 2 catches per game). He may see 1 to 5 punts per game if the opposition kicks to him so we have a roster spot dedicated to a guy that may touch the ball 2 - 6 times per game at best. I believe his perceived value is far higher than his real value and that is why I favor a trade given fair value in exchange.

[thewildrabbit]

Would you trade away Josh reed at this point? No way.

 

Look how long it took for him to develop into a really good possession type receiver. Anyone remember all those dropped balls ?

Although Roscoe is still developing he doesn't miss many balls his way.Part of the problem is how the Bills utilize him or should I say under utilize him ?

 

Not for nothing but the combination of Lee Evans on one side and Roscoe on the other side both running fly patterns should scare the hell out of opponents and open up the middle. Then with Josh Reed and the tight ends in the Middle both should be open and man this offense should be so explosive!

 

Just hit a few of those deep balls or middle balls and it drops the backers and safeties deeper in coverage and opens up the running game. That's when play action really starts clicking.

Like I said the Bills offense could be so much more explosive. I suppose it might take Drew Brees throwing and Sean Payton calling plays to make it happen though

[Steely Dan]

Not a mention of Parish, 14 returns to Faulks 7 ?

 

I don't care where you got that from, it's wrong.....

 

Check the Bills site, and check back on yours once they "fix" it.

 

To claim Parrish isn't a top returner is, well, crap......

 

Did you even click the site? Would you please link the page at BB.com that compares Roscoe to the rest of the league. Look below, Dibs has a better site than the NFL site I used.

 

 

I've noticed that the NFL stat site seems to ignore Roscoe. This isn't the first year where he was leading the league in punt return average & was not even on the list.

 

Try this one.

 

Thanks, this is the second time NFL.com has been wrong about something. It's the last time I use them. The NFL site shows Jackson at a 14.3 average so far and the ESPN site doesn't even list him? It's probably because he doesn't have enough returns to qualify.

 

 

teams will just wait for him to get cut... trades very seldom happen in the NFL anymore that mean anything...you can just wait out the player and the team.

 

this isn't fantasy football..

 

He isn't getting cut. Wes Welker, Marcus Stroud, Willis McGahee and Randy Moss might disagree as well as others about the trades argument. There were a few trades last offseason. I think that having Jackson and McKelvin can make Roscoe dispensable but only for a third at the very least.

[BuffaloBill]

Would you trade away Josh reed at this point? No way.

 

Look how long it took for him to develop into a really good possession type receiver. Anyone remember all those dropped balls ?

Although Roscoe is still developing he doesn't miss many balls his way.Part of the problem is how the Bills utilize him or should I say under utilize him ?

 

Not for nothing but the combination of Lee Evans on one side and Roscoe on the other side both running fly patterns should scare the hell out of opponents and open up the middle. Then with Josh Reed and the tight ends in the Middle both should be open and man this offense should be so explosive!

 

Just hit a few of those deep balls or middle balls and it drops the backers and safeties deeper in coverage and opens up the running game. That's when play action really starts clicking.

Like I said the Bills offense could be so much more explosive. I suppose it might take Drew Brees throwing and Sean Payton calling plays to make it happen though

 

 

I keep returning to the facts:

 

Parrish is in his fourth year - long enough to have developed into a threat if he is going to be one

We've heard since training camp this year that the offense was going to be explosive - numbers show otherwise

Trent Edwards can't find or does not value Parrish as a receiver. he gets a very small number of throws each week

While he is elusive on punt returns he rarely makes the first guy miss when thrown the ball. he should get YAC but does not

He has 16 catches this year for 185 yards and this will likely be his best year as a receiver - sorry but for whatever set of reasons have caused it - these numbers do not show that he is or can be an effective receiver with this club.

 

Why does everyone buy into the idea that he is such a receiving threat?

 

Tell me one time where he broke a game open as a receiver in four years? the guy is amazing as a punt returner but has no value to this team otherwise.

[BuffaloBill]

Look at his stats and please tell me why does everybody say this guy is a receiving threat?

 

Season Team Receiving Rushing Fumbles

G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost

2008 Buffalo Bills 9 1 18 185 10.3 22 1 -- -- -- -- -- 1 1

2007 Buffalo Bills 16 3 35 352 10.1 47T 1 3 19 6.3 24T 1 1 0

2006 Buffalo Bills 16 1 23 320 13.9 51T 2 2 18 9.0 11 0 2 1

2005 Buffalo Bills 10 1 15 148 9.9 28 1 2 -2 -1.0 4 0 2 1

TOTAL 91 1,005 11.0 51 5 7 35 5.0 24 1 6 3

[thewildrabbit]

Would you trade away Josh reed at this point? No way.

 

Look how long it took for him to develop into a really good possession type receiver. Anyone remember all those dropped balls ?

Although Roscoe is still developing he doesn't miss many balls his way.Part of the problem is how the Bills utilize him or should I say under utilize him ?

 

Not for nothing but the combination of Lee Evans on one side and Roscoe on the other side both running fly patterns should scare the hell out of opponents and open up the middle. Then with Josh Reed and the tight ends in the Middle both should be open and man this offense should be so explosive!

 

Just hit a few of those deep balls or middle balls and it drops the backers and safeties deeper in coverage and opens up the running game. That's when play action really starts clicking.

Like I said the Bills offense could be so much more explosive. I suppose it might take Drew Brees throwing and Sean Payton calling plays to make it happen though

The Bills coaching staff and OC went from an over conservative to a rookie play caller. They guy definitely has the speed and can run routes. My point is simply...I think its the coaches failure to make certain he gets the ball more in open space.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

ahh ok thx..I was thinking he did, but when you go to a site that lists FA's youd think they would do their homework.

Considering they reported it as well...

 

 

Bills | Parrish contract details - from www.KFFL.com

Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:58:12 -0800

 

Updating a previous report, the Buffalo Bills have signed WR Roscoe Parrish to a three-year contract extension. Financial terms were not disclosed.

[BuffaloBill]

Look at his stats and please tell me why does everybody say this guy is a receiving threat?

 

Season Team Receiving Rushing Fumbles

G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost

2008 Buffalo Bills 9 1 18 185 10.3 22 1 -- -- -- -- -- 1 1

2007 Buffalo Bills 16 3 35 352 10.1 47T 1 3 19 6.3 24T 1 1 0

2006 Buffalo Bills 16 1 23 320 13.9 51T 2 2 18 9.0 11 0 2 1

2005 Buffalo Bills 10 1 15 148 9.9 28 1 2 -2 -1.0 4 0 2 1

TOTAL 91 1,005 11.0 51 5 7 35 5.0 24 1 6 3

 

 

If you also look he has had as many fumbles as he has had TD's for a better look at stats:

 

NFL Stats - Parrish

 

I am really not trying to bash the guy for those of you that may want to toss this at me ... just cut through the perception that this guy is a receiving threat

[thewildrabbit]

If you also look he has had as many fumbles as he has had TD's for a better look at stats:

 

NFL Stats - Parrish

 

I am really not trying to bash the guy for those of you that may want to toss this at me ... just cut through the perception that this guy is a receiving threat

You keep posting his stats over and over expecting an argument that the guy is an elite NFL receiver,he isn't!

I've got a better stat for you to chew on ...Yahoo quote: Note that Parrish has only had over 60 receiving yards in a game once in his entire NFL career.

 

I don't think its his fault if the coaches refuse to utilize him properly. The QB, Trent Edwards is not considered a deep ball guy either. Right now Marshawn Lynch is tied with Lee Evans on the team for most reception with 42. What does that tell you about Roscoe or Josh Reed seeing the ball.

 

This year he is coming on, Trent does find him occasionally and he does catch the ball and make plays.If only the coaches would find a way to get the guy the ball in open space he could become a star.

[Dibs]

.......If only the coaches would find a way to get the guy the ball in open space he could become a star.

Maybe he has difficulty getting open.

[Steely Dan]

If Steve Johnson wasn't on the team this wouldn't even be a question. Johnson's talent makes Parrish expendable because Jackson and McKelvin are both good returners. While they aren't quite in Roscoe's league they are good enough that if the Bills could use an extra third rounder on a C or LB which are parts of the team that are a lot less deficient they'd be ahead in the long run.

[Dibs]

If Steve Johnson wasn't on the team this wouldn't even be a question. Johnson's talent makes Parrish expendable because Jackson and McKelvin are both good returners. While they aren't quite in Roscoe's league they are good enough that if the Bills could use an extra third rounder on a C or LB which are parts of the team that are a lot less deficient they'd be ahead in the long run.

A little premature to pronounce Steve Johnson as a talent isn't it?

[Steely Dan]

A little premature to pronounce Steve Johnson as a talent isn't it?

 

I don't think so. He's only going to be needed as a slot receiver at worst behind Evans, probably Hardy and Reed. So I think that does make Roscoe expendable.

[thewildrabbit]

I love how you guys are so quick to dismiss valued players on this Bills team.

 

Roscoe is wayyyy better then rookies James Hardy or Steve Johnson.Those two might take years to get to where Parish is now. Like Josh Reed years...in 6 or so. The ONLY reason Johnson got the nod over Hardy is because he has shown a better ability to run more then the simple routes and he catches the ball.That does mean Johnson will never even see the field if Reed and Parish are healthy!

Simply because the Bills are getting other players ready behind the starters doesn't automatically make them better or more capable.

 

Besides,even if Johnson started playing like a world beater.. which he isn't! What makes you think Edwards will get him the ball? The guy just can't stop hitting the RB in the flat. We the fans should name him "Mr dump off". I like Trent Edwards but he really needs to work on throwing to his receivers more often.

Anytime the RB has as many receptions as the main wideout it has to be somewhat disconcerting.

 

Shoot,the way Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch catch the ball I'd start one in the back field and put the other in the slot

[BuffaloBill]

You keep posting his stats over and over expecting an argument that the guy is an elite NFL receiver,he isn't!

I've got a better stat for you to chew on ...Yahoo quote: Note that Parrish has only had over 60 receiving yards in a game once in his entire NFL career.

 

I don't think its his fault if the coaches refuse to utilize him properly. The QB, Trent Edwards is not considered a deep ball guy either. Right now Marshawn Lynch is tied with Lee Evans on the team for most reception with 42. What does that tell you about Roscoe or Josh Reed seeing the ball.

 

This year he is coming on, Trent does find him occasionally and he does catch the ball and make plays.If only the coaches would find a way to get the guy the ball in open space he could become a star.

 

 

I quote the stats because some in this thread keep insisting that Parrish is a receiving threat, the numbers clearly tell another story. As fo the coaches not using him properly, please, while we can start a debate about the quality of the coaching staff (not the purpose of this thread) they are not going to stupidly ignore him if he has all of this talent. Edwards admited at one point this year that Roscoe's size makes it hard to find him. Maybe that is the problem - of course it begs the question why can Brady find Welker so easily? I tend to believe that Trent does not have confidence in Roscoe and maybe he does not run crisp routes.

[generaLee83]

While there are many resons to hate Bellichick one thing he said years ago that did impress me (when referring to the Bledsoe trade to Buffalo) was that you have to decide who you can win without, even if they are good players. I'm not sure what we could get in trade for roscoe but he is not an NFL threat at wide-receiver and it may be too much of a luxury to carry him as a punt return specialist only. Let McKelvin handle all returns - even if it means dropping him to nickle corner on the depth chart to level out his playing time.

 

Let's argue that best case you get a second rounder for Roscoe. You can get a quality o-line or d-line player in return. If you can't get at least a third rounder then it is probably not worth the trade. Maybe there is a package deal in there somewhere such that we get extra picks and a move up in the draft. Again, may depend upon who is on the board but an impact pass rusher or solid TE helps the Bills more than Roscoe does.

 

Flame away

 

I understand your points but what is Roscoe going to net in a trade?

 

Maybe a 4th round pick?

 

Not worth it IMO, he is a great punt returner and I don't think he's been used correctly in Buffalo. If he fails to produce after 1 more year in Turk's system then consider a trade.

[bills44]

I really don't think that Parrish is a legitimate #2/3 WR. He's too frail, not physical enough, and he runs poor patterns.

 

Really, he's a good PR/#4 WR.

 

Another sh------- pick by Donahoe.

 

Problem is, I doubt that the Bills would get much in return for Parrish.

[Webster Guy]

Thats a good point about deciding who you can win without, even if they are good players. We had some close games early this year that we won, and if i remember correctly Roscoe did have some contributions there. Specifically that TD pass on the left side of the endzone (San Diego maybe?) It doesn't mean that play couldn't have been made by another good receiver in his place though.

 

I think the question comes down to what you can reasonably expect to get for the player in a trade. If it's a 3rd round pick could we get a contributor where we need it? Maybe a LB (by the way the Bills putting Crowell on IR to prove a point was incredibly foolish. He likely would have been back weeks ago but instead we have a huge hole in our LB corps and boy does it show. That felt like a Dopey-Ralph inspired decision to me. Maybe he forgot his meds at the Toronto Savings Bank that day)

 

Anyway I would hate to see us trade such an exciting player, but punters can usually avoid kicking to him by going out of bounds or forcing the fair catch. Notice how many actual returns he's had in the past 5 games it's meaningless. Turk isn't using him on screens or reverses, and we obviously need help in other areas.

 

I don't think you can discreetly shop a player in the NFL anymore without them hearing about it, so maybe the best bet is to get the word out officially and see what happens.

 

Man that guy is incredible to watch though. My favorite Bill when he has the ball.

[keepthefaith]

I keep returning to the facts:

 

Parrish is in his fourth year - long enough to have developed into a threat if he is going to be one

We've heard since training camp this year that the offense was going to be explosive - numbers show otherwise

Trent Edwards can't find or does not value Parrish as a receiver. he gets a very small number of throws each week

While he is elusive on punt returns he rarely makes the first guy miss when thrown the ball. he should get YAC but does not

He has 16 catches this year for 185 yards and this will likely be his best year as a receiver - sorry but for whatever set of reasons have caused it - these numbers do not show that he is or can be an effective receiver with this club.

 

Why does everyone buy into the idea that he is such a receiving threat?

 

Tell me one time where he broke a game open as a receiver in four years? the guy is amazing as a punt returner but has no value to this team otherwise.

 

I could support your idea that he's not valuable as a receiver if the Bills offensive braintrust had any track record of success in the passing game in the NFL. They don't and as far as I'm concerned, any and all talent on the offensive side of the ball will be wasted by this staff.