silvermike Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Nobody gets anything for mid-depth chart receivers. Dante Hall got traded for a 5th round pick - that's probably the ceiling for Roscoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak tree 12 Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Then why is Evans playing at a higher level as is Reed (when healthy) Parrish is now a veteran not a rookie. My point is that he has talent and the Bills can get something in return for it (no pun intended). Keeping a guy on the roster simply to return punts takes up a very valuable roster spot. Also, to the other comments - agreed we should not give him away - the trade has to offer real value but like I said .. a second rounder ... a good mix of stuff moving us up (meaningfully) in the first round and maybe getting another pick to go with it .. who would pass it up? thats exactly the reason you dont even consider trading him. bad bad idea get rid of an electrifying slot receiver who is coming into his prime. bad bad idea and the bills will never consider it. they just resigned him they didnt do that to trade him they did it because they wanted to lock him up . no freaking way they will ever consider trading him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 To those wanting to trade roscoe, please explain to me the difference between a solid WR like Josh Reed, who will get you 4-5 catches and 50 yards every game, and Roscoe, who will get you 3-4 punt returns for a minimum of 50 yards per game. To me, they are just as valuable. Also Roscoe still has value as a WR as he's come up with quite a few decent catches in his tenure here. Sure he's not an every down player, but he has value as a weapon. A team like the pats* would turn roscoe into a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavarreFL_Bills_Fan Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Then why is Evans playing at a higher level as is Reed (when healthy) Parrish is now a veteran not a rookie. My point is that he has talent and the Bills can get something in return for it (no pun intended). Keeping a guy on the roster simply to return punts takes up a very valuable roster spot.Also, to the other comments - agreed we should not give him away - the trade has to offer real value but like I said .. a second rounder ... a good mix of stuff moving us up (meaningfully) in the first round and maybe getting another pick to go with it .. who would pass it up? You make the argument for why other teams will not give up anything real valuable for him: he eats a roster spot mostly as a return specialist. If he can't beat out Josh Reed for the second receiver spot, what team will he be able to break in as a second reciever. We won't get anything higher than a 4th for him. He's a luxury player that only certain teams can have. That's one reason why it's unfortunate that he got drafted by the Bills so high....just think, vincent jackson was on the board and some predicted the Bills to take him instead....not to metion the other impact players available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Not likely to get a day one pick .. kinda like buying a new car .. value drops as soon as you drive it off the lot. If he is not an impact plaer in Buffalo then not likely to be somewhere else just because the scenery changes. I agree that trading Roscoe is worth a good look. And I do actually think they could get a second round pick for him from the right team. He is arguably the top PR in the AFC and makes big plays on special teams and occasionally at WR, and if some team thinks they can make him into a starting wide receiver they'd pay the price for him. Personally, I don't think he can take the pounding stay healthy enough to be a highly productive #2 or slot receiver. If they keep Greer(and they should because they are flush with cap space) they would have depth at corner which might allow them to use McKelvin there, making Roscoe a bit more expendable. As for Hardy, people shouldn't be so down on him. Despite his great production, he was a very raw receiver at Indiana. All he had to do to succeed in the Big Ten was out jump the cornerback, and if you saw him play, that's really all he did. He has the size and athleticism to be a very good NFL receiver, but he's not so good that he can just post-up NFL corners. He now has to learn things about being a WR that a less imposing college player like Steve Johnson had to learn just to make it at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 thats exactly the reason you dont even consider trading him. bad bad idea get rid of an electrifying slot receiver who is coming into his prime. bad bad idea and the bills will never consider it. they just resigned him they didnt do that to trade him they did it because they wanted to lock him up . no freaking way they will ever consider trading him. + Where do his stats prove out that he is a valuable slot receiver? Why do people buy into this concept. This year he has 18 catches for a whopping total of 185 yards. Come on folks this is not an impact receiver nor a threat when on the field with the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 I agree that trading Roscoe is worth a good look. And I do actually think they could get a second round pick for him from the right team. He is arguably the top PR in the AFC and makes big plays on special teams and occasionally at WR, and if some team thinks they can make him into a starting wide receiver they'd pay the price for him. Personally, I don't think he can take the pounding stay healthy enough to be a highly productive #2 or slot receiver. If they keep Greer(and they should because they are flush with cap space) they would have depth at corner which might allow them to use McKelvin there, making Roscoe a bit more expendable. As for Hardy, people shouldn't be so down on him. Despite his great production, he was a very raw receiver at Indiana. All he had to do to succeed in the Big Ten was out jump the cornerback, and if you saw him play, that's really all he did. He has the size and athleticism to be a very good NFL receiver, but he's not so good that he can just post-up NFL corners. He now has to learn things about being a WR that a less imposing college player like Steve Johnson had to learn just to make it at that level. Thank you for some support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 To those wanting to trade roscoe, please explain to me the difference between a solid WR like Josh Reed, who will get you 4-5 catches and 50 yards every game, and Roscoe, who will get you 3-4 punt returns for a minimum of 50 yards per game. To me, they are just as valuable. Also Roscoe still has value as a WR as he's come up with quite a few decent catches in his tenure here. Sure he's not an every down player, but he has value as a weapon. A team like the pats* would turn roscoe into a good one. Josh Reed contributes on every play in the offense. He is highly regarded for his blocking skills on a run plays and is taken seriously as a receiving threat. He can also get YAC something that Roscoe is supposed to do but doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 To those wanting to trade roscoe, please explain to me the difference between a solid WR like Josh Reed, who will get you 4-5 catches and 50 yards every game, and Roscoe, who will get you 3-4 punt returns for a minimum of 50 yards per game. To me, they are just as valuable. Also Roscoe still has value as a WR as he's come up with quite a few decent catches in his tenure here. Sure he's not an every down player, but he has value as a weapon. A team like the pats* would turn roscoe into a good one. Agree he'd be a very valuable player on other teams. I think Roscoe is the most underutilized player on the Bills and IMO it's ridiculous that after almost 3 seasons this staff hasn't figured out how use his talent as a receiver. Welker has similar skills and size and he's a staple in the Pats offense. Roscoe if he gets the ball in just a bit of space or on the move makes people miss. He makes plays when he's given the ball. Imagine a defense that had to prepare to play against Lee Evans, a more experienced Hardy and Roscoe as a 3rd guy. That would create some tough matchups for the opposition. Hardy is still learning. Shame on this coaching staff if in '09 (if they're still around) they can't make something special out of the combination of these 3 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 well crap, miami picked ginn in the first round and parrish is a gamechanger... maybe a 2nd or 3rd isnt that far off. throw in a conditional clause based on return yards... maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 Agree he'd be a very valuable player on other teams. I think Roscoe is the most underutilized player on the Bills and IMO it's ridiculous that after almost 3 seasons this staff hasn't figured out how use his talent as a receiver. Welker has similar skills and size and he's a staple in the Pats offense. Roscoe if he gets the ball in just a bit of space or on the move makes people miss. He makes plays when he's given the ball. Imagine a defense that had to prepare to play against Lee Evans, a more experienced Hardy and Roscoe as a 3rd guy. That would create some tough matchups for the opposition. Hardy is still learning. Shame on this coaching staff if in '09 (if they're still around) they can't make something special out of the combination of these 3 players. Whatever the combination of factors is Parrish is no Welker Welker also has about 20 pounds on Parrish. Maybe not important because both are small by NFL standards but Parrish does seem to get knocked down on initial contact when he does catch a pass. His threat in retuns is his ability to make the first and often the second guy miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 another point, welker wasnt as well regarded at the time of his trade and miami got a 2nd for him. again, anything is possible if the right team comes around at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 another point, welker wasnt as well regarded at the time of his trade and miami got a 2nd for him. again, anything is possible if the right team comes around at the right time. Exactly the point I have been trying to get to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Agree he'd be a very valuable player on other teams. I think Roscoe is the most underutilized player on the Bills and IMO it's ridiculous that after almost 3 seasons this staff hasn't figured out how use his talent as a receiver. Welker has similar skills and size and he's a staple in the Pats offense. Roscoe if he gets the ball in just a bit of space or on the move makes people miss. He makes plays when he's given the ball. Imagine a defense that had to prepare to play against Lee Evans, a more experienced Hardy and Roscoe as a 3rd guy. That would create some tough matchups for the opposition. Hardy is still learning. Shame on this coaching staff if in '09 (if they're still around) they can't make something special out of the combination of these 3 players. Roscoe and Welker aren't anything alike. Welker is a tough, durable, instinctive receiver. Roscoe is dangerous but fragile and struggles to get open. Not that Roscoe is bad, but that's the difference between a guy who can catch 100 passes in a season and a guy who'd be lucky to average a couple grabs per game and not end up on IR. If you just look at the games played, it doesn't tell the story, injuries have really held Roscoe back in the passing game since he came to Buffalo, even if he has been able to still field punts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 This is not a bad idea at all as long as Buffalo can get at least a third rounder for him. Leodis McKelvin and Fred Jackson have been returning punts this year too. Granted their number of punt returns is low but it still says something. Jackson has returned 6 punts for a 14.3 average with a long of 35 yards and is rated number 2 in the AFC for average on punt returns Leodis has 2 punt returns for a 13.0 average with a long of 14 yards and is rated number 5 in the AFC. Roscoe is not rated in the top 25 in return avg. in the AFC. So the Bills have two legitimate punt returners besides Roscoe. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Bills get a third rounder because his contract is very cap friendly. Steve Johnson could take over Parrish's spot on the offense and will add 3" to that position at 6"2". It's too bad Millen isn't in Detroit anymore. The Bills could have gotten two first rounders for him. You make the argument for why other teams will not give up anything real valuable for him: he eats a roster spot mostly as a return specialist. If he can't beat out Josh Reed for the second receiver spot, what team will he be able to break in as a second reciever. We won't get anything higher than a 4th for him. He's a luxury player that only certain teams can have. That's one reason why it's unfortunate that he got drafted by the Bills so high....just think, vincent jackson was on the board and some predicted the Bills to take him instead....not to metion the other impact players available. Jackson is a bad analogy. I'd rather have Roscoe. Agree he'd be a very valuable player on other teams. I think Roscoe is the most underutilized player on the Bills and IMO it's ridiculous that after almost 3 seasons this staff hasn't figured out how use his talent as a receiver. Welker has similar skills and size and he's a staple in the Pats offense. Roscoe if he gets the ball in just a bit of space or on the move makes people miss. He makes plays when he's given the ball. Imagine a defense that had to prepare to play against Lee Evans, a more experienced Hardy and Roscoe as a 3rd guy. That would create some tough matchups for the opposition. Hardy is still learning. Shame on this coaching staff if in '09 (if they're still around) they can't make something special out of the combination of these 3 players. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 ........................Roscoe is not rated in the top 25 in return avg. in the AFC................... Hummmmmm, seems to be a bit of a problem with your stats. Roscoe's stats (punt returns for 2008 from Buffalo Bills official site): Roscoe Parrish : Returns - 14 FC - 8 Ave - 14.7 Long - 63 TD - 1 Seems a tad higher than Jackson and frankly pretty darned high in actually leagues stats.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Hummmmmm, seems to be a bit of a problem with your stats. Roscoe's stats (punt returns for 2008 from Buffalo Bills official site): Roscoe Parrish Returns - 14 FC - 8 Ave - 14.7 Long -63 TD - 1 Seems a tad higher than Jackson and frankly pretty darned high in actually leagues stats.... Check my link on the NFL site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Check my link on the NFL site. Not a mention of Parish, 14 returns to Faulks 7 ? I don't care where you got that from, it's wrong..... Check the Bills site, and check back on yours once they "fix" it. To claim Parrish isn't a top returner is, well, crap...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hossage Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 We need to figure out a way to get him the ball because he is so dangerous. He cannot be covered one on one. He is a polished receiver, but a small target. We should be able to put roscoe out in the slot and have him draw personnel toward him to defend quick passes like new england does with whelker to improve the running game. In other words, I agree with everything everyone else said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commish95 Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 By the way...if you want to look at trading a WR this off season...see James Hardy. We have a certain 7th rounder who looks like he could be the steal of the draft and the future starter opposite Evans if he continues to develop. Word is the FO really likes him...so that would leave Hardy where? An expensive 3rd WR? What about Reed and Roscoe then? Someone has to be the odd man out... Trade hardy on his potential...we could get a decent pick back for him...maybe a first day pick. As a fan of Hardys yes please trade him. Buffalo and being coached by Juron is a place where stars die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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