While you were sleeping

[colin]

This thread is not about wages and your outlook on what is fair and what is not.

 

Its about losing the Bills with a smaller market.

 

Get off the union garbage and the big BAD General Motors.

 

I know more about the auto industry then you will ever know

 

i'm sure you know where to file a grievance and how to put your side panel on at your station, but you understand very little.

 

do you have a single source of any repute for your "most make 12 an hour" comment?

[Tom]

Not to worry change is coming. HA!

 

U BETCHA!!!!!!!!!

 

Hows your Governor?

 

 

Turkey..........

[KD in CA]

Unions??? The real problem is unabated greed within the Executive class. How can you blame unions for fighting to make a living wage when the CEO of Ford made 21.7 million dollars last year.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/200...ustry-ceos.html

 

The US government should bail out the auto industry and use the bail out to force the companies to change their business models, starting with executive pay.

 

Everyone agrees the CEO is overpaid and Congress is going to certainly make that a condition of any bailout. The problem is that if you cut his salary by $20MM a year, that's enough money to run GM for about one hour. The CEO's pay is a drop in the bucket compared to the excessive wage/benefit/post retirement costs of the hundreds of thousands of people in the unions.

 

And spare us the "living wage" rhetoric. Auto workers at the non-union Honda plant certainly seem to be making a "living wage".

 

You can't fix the Big 3 without overhauling the entire thing; distribution channels, operational redundancies, executive structure and pay, AND the unions. Sorry guys, it's not the 19th century anymore so the old arguments don't fly. And to the original point in the thread -- Buffalo is dying because it hasn't successfully evolved to a post-industrial economy.

 

Go back and read the posts by BuffaloBill and Peevo

[DIE HARD 1967]

i'm sure you know where to file a grievance and how to put your side panel on at your station, but you understand very little.

 

do you have a single source of any repute for your "most make 12 an hour" comment?

 

First of all I have been in the Auto industry for 40 years and was both hourly and salary, I worked for 7 different GM dealerships, two GM suppliers, in Syracuse and Rochester and the River Road complex in Tonawanda NY

 

I still travel back to Buffalo, and I know exactly what the employees make.

 

They were hired by GM as temps and they work under a 3 year contract at $12 per hour.

 

I worked with 11,897 employees in 1972 and retired with 798.

 

We started at $4.44 per hour and retired at $27.50 and I was the highest paid worker.

 

The wages you see on CNN include heath care, dental, vision, and they do not reflect true actual wages

 

Nearly EVERYONE I know is now retired and we know exactly how much they pay our replacements because 2 of them are in my family

[colin]

First of all I have been in the Auto industry for 40 years and was both hourly and salary, I worked for 7 different GM dealerships, two GM suppliers, in Syracuse and Rochester and the River Road complex in Tonawanda NY

 

I still travel back to Buffalo, and I know exactly what the employees make.

 

They were hired by GM as temps and they work under a 3 year contract at $12 per hour.

 

I worked with 11,897 employees in 1972 and retired with 798.

 

We started at $4.44 per hour and retired at $27.50 and I was the highest paid worker.

 

The wages you see on CNN include heath care, dental, vision, and they do not reflect true actual wages

 

Nearly EVERYONE I know is now retired and we know exactly how much they pay our replacements

 

ok, so you have no data at all. great.

 

in 40 years you haven't figured out how to support a single shred of your argument. well done.

 

all the other benefits count, they are part of the cost.

[DIE HARD 1967]

ok, so you have no data at all. great.

 

in 40 years you haven't figured out how to support a single shred of your argument. well done.

 

all the other benefits count, they are part of the cost.

 

You want me to spend hours discussing the Auto intustry and I certainly could ,and that would get me nowhere with you anyway.

 

If you want me to answer a few questions....fine

 

You want to place blame, and that will get us nowhere.

 

This thread is not about that.

 

Its about losing jobs in Buffalo and saving the Buffalo Bills.

 

What happened to the other big employers in WNY?

 

Its not all GM, What happend to Bethleham Steel and Ingram Micro?

 

You better take a closer look at NY State taxes and moving jobs out of the country for slave labor wages that average $3.65

and the fair trade agreement now in place

[Cookiemonster]

maybe if people stopped believing all the blind hype that the imports are better than the domestics and started buying our own products they wouldn't be in as much trouble as they are. Toyota = crap.

Best post ever. I am probably just, or more, guilty then the next guy, but I think, and hope, that all Americans

wake up, and buy American, I personally will never buy another foreign car , regardless of where it is made.But beyond that, it becomes very difficult. The Auto Industry mess has shaken me to the core, do we make anything anymore?

I know that I will be checking going forward. I hope that they show them the money. I hope that Obama's very first

campain promise he keeps, is to stop American Companies from investing overseas.Go Bills!

[DIE HARD 1967]

Best post ever. I am probably just, or more, guilty then the next guy, but I think, and hope, that all Americans

wake up, and buy American, I personally will never buy another foreign car , regardless of where it is made.But beyond that, it becomes very difficult. The Auto Industry mess has shaken me to the core, do we make anything anymore?

I know that I will be checking going forward. I hope that they show them the money. I hope that Obama's very first

campain promise he keeps, is to stop American Companies from investing overseas.Go Bills!

 

Thank you for your reponses.

 

I just hope we have a team down the Raod!

[mchammer]

Unions??? The real problem is unabated greed within the Executive class. How can you blame unions for fighting to make a living wage when the CEO of Ford made 21.7 million dollars last year.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/200...ustry-ceos.html

 

The US government should bail out the auto industry and use the bail out to force the companies to change their business models, starting with executive pay.

 

Spoken like a true communist. We live in a free market society and if you’re smart enough and ambitious enough you will earn a lot of money. If you can't perform your job then you will be shown the door and that is the way it should be. We do not need parity in our society where everyone earns the same no matter what you do, that would stifiel creativity and inovation and makes us another Russia. I do not believe the government should bail out any private industries no matter how many people they employ.

[DIE HARD 1967]

Spoken like a true communist. We live in a free market society and if you’re smart enough and ambitious enough you will earn a lot of money. If you can't perform your job then you will be shown the door and that is the way it should be. We do not need parity in our society where everyone earns the same no matter what you do, that would stifiel creativity and inovation and makes us another Russia. I do not believe the government should bail out any private industries no matter how many people they employ.

 

Man, do I love this guy or what?

 

Nice, Mchammer

 

I live in Florida,which is a right to work state.

 

Nearly everyone makes $8 per hour with no Heath Insurance or pension.

 

If you are looking for a job, stay out of Florida

[erynthered]

Nearly everyone makes $8 per hour with no Heath Insurance or pension.

 

If you are looking for a job, stay out of Florida

 

 

Bullshiit!

[nucci]

Best post ever. I am probably just, or more, guilty then the next guy, but I think, and hope, that all Americans

wake up, and buy American, I personally will never buy another foreign car , regardless of where it is made.But beyond that, it becomes very difficult. The Auto Industry mess has shaken me to the core, do we make anything anymore?

I know that I will be checking going forward. I hope that they show them the money. I hope that Obama's very first

campain promise he keeps, is to stop American Companies from investing overseas.Go Bills!

What about all the Americans who work for Honda, Toyota, Mercedes...etc?

[DIE HARD 1967]

Bullshiit!

 

Really

 

I work down here, and I staff new jobs from Port Charlotte

 

I can't even hire you at $8.

 

Sorry, no jobs

[BuffaloBill]

Everyone agrees the CEO is overpaid and Congress is going to certainly make that a condition of any bailout. The problem is that if you cut his salary by $20MM a year, that's enough money to run GM for about one hour. The CEO's pay is a drop in the bucket compared to the excessive wage/benefit/post retirement costs of the hundreds of thousands of people in the unions.

 

And spare us the "living wage" rhetoric. Auto workers at the non-union Honda plant certainly seem to be making a "living wage".

 

You can't fix the Big 3 without overhauling the entire thing; distribution channels, operational redundancies, executive structure and pay, AND the unions. Sorry guys, it's not the 19th century anymore so the old arguments don't fly. And to the original point in the thread -- Buffalo is dying because it hasn't successfully evolved to a post-industrial economy.

 

Go back and read the posts by BuffaloBill and Peevo

 

 

Amen ...well said

[BuffaloBill]

What about all the Americans who work for Honda, Toyota, Mercedes...etc?

 

 

Truth of the matter is that there is so much parts sharing in the industry there is hardly a "American" car anymore. I worked 7 years for a Toyota and Honda supplier. I can tell you for a fact that Toyota places a premium on excellence in manufacturing and materials. They strive to wring every manufacuring inefficiency out of the system and they use the gain to better their parts.

[DIE HARD 1967]

Amen ...well said

 

This Country is in worse shape then GM

 

I wonder what kind of planes the Senators , Congress and Governors fly around in?

 

Stay tuned, CNN in hot on that story.

[erynthered]

Really

 

I work down here, and I staff new jobs from Port Charlotte

 

I can't even hire you at $8.

 

Sorry, no jobs

 

I live in the Tampa area, and have for the last 27 years. There's jobs here!! Go where the jobs are, dude. Port Charlotte? No wonders!

 

BTW, they're short about 500 School bus drivers here in this area. Starting pay is 12 bucks an hour. HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike in Syracuse]

maybe if people stopped believing all the blind hype that the imports are better than the domestics and started buying our own products they wouldn't be in as much trouble as they are. Toyota = crap.

 

First, half of what you call "imports" are made HERE.

 

Second, if you don't think that Toyota and Honda aren't producing cars that are exponentially better than the sh-- the US manufacturers are making then you are clueless.

 

Third, US auto manufacturers have been producing a sh------- product for almost 60 years. That fact combined with reality that unions have over inflated wages to absurd levels leads us to the current situation.

 

Do I feel bad for the US workers? Yes, but I'm not buying their sh-- because it's made by my neighbor.

[DIE HARD 1967]

I live in the Tampa area, and have for the last 27 years. There's jobs here!! Go where the jobs are, dude. Port Charlotte? No wonders!

 

BTW, they're short about 500 School bus drivers here in this area. Starting pay is 12 bucks an hour. HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I lived in Tampa, but you guys need to learn to drive.

 

Note: Red lights mean STOP

 

Tail gating is dangerous

 

Turn signal are in your car for a reason.

 

Cell phones , MP3 players and text messages tend to distract while driving

 

The 275 is not Nascar....its just looks like it!

 

You might have a job, but you won't be alive very long (lol)

[mchammer]

Really

 

I work down here, and I staff new jobs from Port Charlotte

 

I can't even hire you at $8.

 

Sorry, no jobs

 

Finding work in FL has always been tough. I have family that live in the Bradenton/Sarasota area and I remember going for a visit years back and I would see people on the streets holding signs reading "work for food", that's bad. The last time I was there about 3 years ago the area was in the mitts of a housing boom developers were stripping farm land and building 500 - 1000 homes at a time and no one had a hard time finding work. I'm sure it is back to what it uses to be.

 

But let me make one point. Everything is relative, FL has a large retirement population and that population lives on a fixed income and they spend their money wisely. They are a service oriented society. Lets face it retirees are not manning the assembly lines at any manufacturing plant (thank god. I've seen them drive in FL) they are consuming good that enrich their lives. Service jobs require less experience and there for less pay. Anyone can take an order or ring a register. That's why your average hourly wage is so low. Also it does not cost as much to live in FL as it does in other parts of the country. Do you notice how you can go out for dinner at 4 PM and get a steak meal for $6.00 but if you go after 4 PM you will pay full price $11 - $12 for a steak meal. Do you think that steak cost the own of that restaurant less at 4 PM than 6 PM. No he needs to keep customers coming in all day so he adjusts his price to entice people to come in for dinner at those off hours. And yet I see plenty of restaurants and drug stores and grocery stores in FL. How can they all stay in business? They adapt and offer their customers the things they need at a price they can live with.

 

P.S. Sorry about the economic rambling, but when I hear people talk about bail out and protectionism I feel they just do not want to work or do what it takes to make a living. I have a great deal of respect for my elders they know what it means to really work for a living and I'm sure if our generation had the same work ethics that our parents or grand parents did we would not be talking about bail outs or stimulus programs but how well our Buffalo Bills are doing or not doing.