Adam Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 Ok, for those who want McKelvin pushed into the starting defense after his great game yesterday- take a step back. Greer had a pretty strong season last year and has played at a pretty high level this season, despite dealing with a terrible defensive front. Both definitely have aplace on the D, but I need to see more of what happened yesterday- and I don't mean interceptions- remember, we played a team with a terrible offensive line and rookie QB who will be prone to mistakes. On Trent Edwards- he is showing a combination of being a second year QB and has played abysmally since the concussion against Arizona- how much that concussion is still lingering is anyone's guess- at this point it could just be inexperience. For those who thought is was just going to be great with him this season, get real, get some understanding of the game! He is a young QB, everyone goes through this to some extent- add to that he plays for one of the worst teams in the league. I do like that they are sticking with him after screwing up with JP. He isn't playing like he normally does- too many dump offs and not enough WR's. I do think Reed can become the go-to guy, even more than Lee Evans. When firing on all cylinders, Edwards is MUCH better than Tony Romo, who made one of the worst plays I've ever seen yesterday On the offensive line- Langston Walker is the exact same player he was in Oakland. He plays hard, he knows what to do, but can't do it. Fowler and Preston are both smart players, but physically don't cut it. Butler looks liek a great guard, but he can't seem to stay healthy. Peters will be back to form next season as long as he reports on time. We need to get smaller and more athletic, the line is in shambles- and you can't run a coherent offense without a strong line. On the defensive line- Stroud is the best we have at DT and Schobel is all we have at DE. Schobel is getting older and we will only see him injured more- I would consider moving him for draft picks since we pretty much have to start over on the defensive line- same as the OL, you can't run anything coherent here. On the coaching- yes, Jauron isn't one of the better game-day guys, but the team only looks unprepared because of the above problems. I think Jauron does a good job preparing, but doesn't have players who can executte- he should not have a direct hand in aquiring talent, that is a weakness for him. Give him two strong lines and I think he will do fine. Wilson just gave him an extension, so you can forget another coaching change- RW doesn't spend like that- who would want to come to the Bills anyways? Jauron is a grind it out type coach- and that will work if the team is ever built right. There are a lot of guys on this board who want to go with the flavor of the weak as far as coach, GM and QB. Its fuinny, because those fans want to win- and that formula is a proven loser.
1billsfan Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 Ok, for those who want McKelvin pushed into the starting defense after his great game yesterday- take a step back. Greer had a pretty strong season last year and has played at a pretty high level this season, despite dealing with a terrible defensive front. Both definitely have aplace on the D, but I need to see more of what happened yesterday- and I don't mean interceptions- remember, we played a team with a terrible offensive line and rookie QB who will be prone to mistakes. On Trent Edwards- he is showing a combination of being a second year QB and has played abysmally since the concussion against Arizona- how much that concussion is still lingering is anyone's guess- at this point it could just be inexperience. For those who thought is was just going to be great with him this season, get real, get some understanding of the game! He is a young QB, everyone goes through this to some extent- add to that he plays for one of the worst teams in the league. I do like that they are sticking with him after screwing up with JP. He isn't playing like he normally does- too many dump offs and not enough WR's. I do think Reed can become the go-to guy, even more than Lee Evans. When firing on all cylinders, Edwards is MUCH better than Tony Romo, who made one of the worst plays I've ever seen yesterday On the offensive line- Langston Walker is the exact same player he was in Oakland. He plays hard, he knows what to do, but can't do it. Fowler and Preston are both smart players, but physically don't cut it. Butler looks liek a great guard, but he can't seem to stay healthy. Peters will be back to form next season as long as he reports on time. We need to get smaller and more athletic, the line is in shambles- and you can't run a coherent offense without a strong line. On the defensive line- Stroud is the best we have at DT and Schobel is all we have at DE. Schobel is getting older and we will only see him injured more- I would consider moving him for draft picks since we pretty much have to start over on the defensive line- same as the OL, you can't run anything coherent here. On the coaching- yes, Jauron isn't one of the better game-day guys, but the team only looks unprepared because of the above problems. I think Jauron does a good job preparing, but doesn't have players who can executte- he should not have a direct hand in aquiring talent, that is a weakness for him. Give him two strong lines and I think he will do fine. Wilson just gave him an extension, so you can forget another coaching change- RW doesn't spend like that- who would want to come to the Bills anyways? Jauron is a grind it out type coach- and that will work if the team is ever built right. There are a lot of guys on this board who want to go with the flavor of the weak as far as coach, GM and QB. Its fuinny, because those fans want to win- and that formula is a proven loser. For the last time...DICK JAURON IS A WORTHLESS HEAD FOOTBALL COACH WHEN HE HAS TO FACE WINNING TEAMS!!!! Thank you for your time and have a nice day.
Adam Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 For the last time...DICK JAURON IS A WORTHLESS HEAD FOOTBALL COACH WHEN HE HAS TO FACE WINNING TEAMS!!!! Thank you for your time and have a nice day. Whatever....go watch MTV, thats more suited to you. Who would win here- I will accept you as a sentient human being when you can answer that. No players, no wins.
nucci Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 We are one of the worst teams in the league??
Adam Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 We are one of the worst teams in the league?? I would have to say yes- the record may not say so, but when you look at strength of schedule, we haven't beaten anyone. Half our wins are against the woeful AFC West, we have two wins against the weakest division in the NFC and a win against Jacksonville. Our offensive and defensive lines have been in shambles for years. Until that is addressed we won't move up the food chain. Everybody wants to credit Favre for the Jets turnaround- look at how they built up their O-line and brought in Kris Jenkins to shore up the defense.
Dan Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I would have to say yes- the record may not say so, but when you look at strength of schedule, we haven't beaten anyone. Half our wins are against the woeful AFC West, we have two wins against the weakest division in the NFC and a win against Jacksonville. Our offensive and defensive lines have been in shambles for years. Until that is addressed we won't move up the food chain. Everybody wants to credit Favre for the Jets turnaround- look at how they built up their O-line and brought in Kris Jenkins to shore up the defense. If that makes us a bad team, wouldn't that logic imply that all those teams are by default worse than us? So, at least we're not the worst in the league.
DE Bills Fan Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 Exactly! Great point. The keys for them, other than Favre, were Kris Jenkins at NT, Calvin Pace at DE/LB and Alan Faneca at OG. Also, the drafing of Nick Mangold was a great move, one that I wanted the Bills to jump on along with D. Ferguson at OT.
Adam Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 If that makes us a bad team, wouldn't that logic imply that all those teams are by default worse than us? So, at least we're not the worst in the league. OK, lets go with your point- we're still a bad team
Thoner7 Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 What are the chances of keeping Kirk Chambers. He played very well at tackle early in the year, and has been better than good in backing up Butler at guard. OL that can play multiple positions are a huge help. He could/would be a cheaper option at guard than Dockery, and his play may even be an improvemnt. As for the D line. Cut Kelsay, enough said. #1 draft needs to be spent on a top DE, along with adressing it in FA.
The Big Cat Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 OK, lets go with your point- we're still a bad team 14th out of 32 in terms of record and we're one of the worst, though? You did say worst, not bad, one of the WORST.
MRM33064 Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I believe Mr. Jauron has the second-worst win/loss record among active coaches in the league, second only to Herm Edwards (who managed to slither past Jauron by going on a tear of 19 losses out of 20 games). I suppose I'd be inclined to give Jauron the benefit of the doubt if it weren't for the fact that he's coached over 120 games to earn such a stellar credential. I'm sure Jauron's a great guy to have over for Thanksgiving dinner, but at what point do we have enough of a sample size to say that his record is a true measure of his actual ability?
Spun Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I hear from fans from all around the league, the AFC East is one of the toughest divisions. The Jets, Dolphins and yes, the Bills are all on the way up. And New England is, unfortunately, still New England, with two pretty good quarterbacks. The Bills lost to three division rivals and that stings. They also lost in what I consider an aberration, the collapse to the Browns. And they firmly got whupped by a more physical team, Arizona. The Bills won big yesterday but I expect a return of that young, struggling, bumbling team any time now. I don't want to be patient either. I hate losing anything and I am sick of losing. I want to see a consistently effective offensive line. I want a threatening, menacing pass rush. No TE turnovers. No stupid penalties. Victories and playoffs. And victories in the playoffs. But all that may not happen this year. But there are bright spots. And a lot of the bright spots have to do with the youngest players on the team. Want to know what Charger fans are going through here in San Diego right now? They are meeting the realization that the Bolts are probably not going to be in the playoffs. The Bolts fans are also thinking that contrary to the Bills, the Chargers may be on the way down. At least until next Sunday, Bills fans still have hope!
Flbillsfan#1 Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 Ok, for those who want McKelvin pushed into the starting defense after his great game yesterday- take a step back. Greer had a pretty strong season last year and has played at a pretty high level this season, despite dealing with a terrible defensive front. Both definitely have aplace on the D, but I need to see more of what happened yesterday- and I don't mean interceptions- remember, we played a team with a terrible offensive line and rookie QB who will be prone to mistakes. On Trent Edwards- he is showing a combination of being a second year QB and has played abysmally since the concussion against Arizona- how much that concussion is still lingering is anyone's guess- at this point it could just be inexperience. For those who thought is was just going to be great with him this season, get real, get some understanding of the game! He is a young QB, everyone goes through this to some extent- add to that he plays for one of the worst teams in the league. I do like that they are sticking with him after screwing up with JP. He isn't playing like he normally does- too many dump offs and not enough WR's. I do think Reed can become the go-to guy, even more than Lee Evans. When firing on all cylinders, Edwards is MUCH better than Tony Romo, who made one of the worst plays I've ever seen yesterday On the offensive line- Langston Walker is the exact same player he was in Oakland. He plays hard, he knows what to do, but can't do it. Fowler and Preston are both smart players, but physically don't cut it. Butler looks liek a great guard, but he can't seem to stay healthy. Peters will be back to form next season as long as he reports on time. We need to get smaller and more athletic, the line is in shambles- and you can't run a coherent offense without a strong line. On the defensive line- Stroud is the best we have at DT and Schobel is all we have at DE. Schobel is getting older and we will only see him injured more- I would consider moving him for draft picks since we pretty much have to start over on the defensive line- same as the OL, you can't run anything coherent here. On the coaching- yes, Jauron isn't one of the better game-day guys, but the team only looks unprepared because of the above problems. I think Jauron does a good job preparing, but doesn't have players who can executte- he should not have a direct hand in aquiring talent, that is a weakness for him. Give him two strong lines and I think he will do fine. Wilson just gave him an extension, so you can forget another coaching change- RW doesn't spend like that- who would want to come to the Bills anyways? Jauron is a grind it out type coach- and that will work if the team is ever built right. There are a lot of guys on this board who want to go with the flavor of the weak as far as coach, GM and QB. Its fuinny, because those fans want to win- and that formula is a proven loser. I agree with you Juaron is the flavor or the WEAK.
The Big Cat Posted November 24, 2008 Posted November 24, 2008 I believe Mr. Jauron has the second-worst win/loss record among active coaches in the league, second only to Herm Edwards (who managed to slither past Jauron by going on a tear of 19 losses out of 20 games). I suppose I'd be inclined to give Jauron the benefit of the doubt if it weren't for the fact that he's coached over 120 games to earn such a stellar credential. I'm sure Jauron's a great guy to have over for Thanksgiving dinner, but at what point do we have enough of a sample size to say that his record is a true measure of his actual ability? You believe wrong. Link
Adam Posted November 24, 2008 Author Posted November 24, 2008 I hear from fans from all around the league, the AFC East is one of the toughest divisions. The Jets, Dolphins and yes, the Bills are all on the way up. And New England is, unfortunately, still New England, with two pretty good quarterbacks. The Bills lost to three division rivals and that stings. They also lost in what I consider an aberration, the collapse to the Browns. And they firmly got whupped by a more physical team, Arizona. The Bills won big yesterday but I expect a return of that young, struggling, bumbling team any time now. I don't want to be patient either. I hate losing anything and I am sick of losing. I want to see a consistently effective offensive line. I want a threatening, menacing pass rush. No TE turnovers. No stupid penalties. Victories and playoffs. And victories in the playoffs. But all that may not happen this year. But there are bright spots. And a lot of the bright spots have to do with the youngest players on the team. Want to know what Charger fans are going through here in San Diego right now? They are meeting the realization that the Bolts are probably not going to be in the playoffs. The Bolts fans are also thinking that contrary to the Bills, the Chargers may be on the way down. At least until next Sunday, Bills fans still have hope! You really don't have much of a choice as far as being patient. Both lines are in shambles and you don't get good on the O or D-lines overnight. Once those are taken care of, things will fall into place
4BillsintheBurgh Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Ok, for those who want McKelvin pushed into the starting defense after his great game yesterday- take a step back. Greer had a pretty strong season last year and has played at a pretty high level this season, despite dealing with a terrible defensive front. Both definitely have aplace on the D, but I need to see more of what happened yesterday- and I don't mean interceptions- remember, we played a team with a terrible offensive line and rookie QB who will be prone to mistakes. So let's play McKelvin and see what he can do. It's okay if he makes enough plays to keep Greer in the nickel spot. Makes us a better, deeper team. McKelvin has improved vastly on kickoffs, why not on the corner when he gets some time. On Trent Edwards- he is showing a combination of being a second year QB and has played abysmally since the concussion against Arizona- how much that concussion is still lingering is anyone's guess- at this point it could just be inexperience. For those who thought is was just going to be great with him this season, get real, get some understanding of the game! He is a young QB, everyone goes through this to some extent- add to that he plays for one of the worst teams in the league. I do like that they are sticking with him after screwing up with JP. He isn't playing like he normally does- too many dump offs and not enough WR's. I do think Reed can become the go-to guy, even more than Lee Evans. When firing on all cylinders, Edwards is MUCH better than Tony Romo, who made one of the worst plays I've ever seen yesterday If I remember correctly, teams take a baseline brain activity scan on qb's prior to the season for comparison if/when there is a question of whether a concussion is still effecting the player. I know some of the teams were doing that, maybe some else knows for sure that the NFL mandated it. I think the problem is his youth and the coaches have probably thrown too much at him. Regardless, he needs to keep improving. The fans need to realize that improvement may not mean better play all the time. On the offensive line- Langston Walker is the exact same player he was in Oakland. He plays hard, he knows what to do, but can't do it. Fowler and Preston are both smart players, but physically don't cut it. Butler looks liek a great guard, but he can't seem to stay healthy. Peters will be back to form next season as long as he reports on time. We need to get smaller and more athletic, the line is in shambles- and you can't run a coherent offense without a strong line. Is it really that bad? Our starters seem to do okay except for center. I agree Butler seems a little fragile, and it would be nice to have him as our top backup. I'd like to see Walker play some guard because Chambers or someone else can play RT, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I remember the Oak fans saying Walker played well at guard and struggled at RT in space but I guess the Bills don't see him there. On the defensive line- Stroud is the best we have at DT and Schobel is all we have at DE. Schobel is getting older and we will only see him injured more- I would consider moving him for draft picks since we pretty much have to start over on the defensive line- same as the OL, you can't run anything coherent here. Again, is it so bad? Schobel is a quality LDE and I think that with a quality RDE Schobel gets less double teams and is under less pressure, gets hurt less and contributes more because of single blockers. We need pressure on the qb from our down 4, and we're not there yet. Our 3DT rotation has played okay, at least we're not a seive against the run and Stroud can get close to the qb. On the coaching- yes, Jauron isn't one of the better game-day guys, but the team only looks unprepared because of the above problems. I think Jauron does a good job preparing, but doesn't have players who can executte- he should not have a direct hand in aquiring talent, that is a weakness for him. Give him two strong lines and I think he will do fine. Wilson just gave him an extension, so you can forget another coaching change- RW doesn't spend like that- who would want to come to the Bills anyways? Jauron is a grind it out type coach- and that will work if the team is ever built right. Keep in mind that Turk is learning as well, it's not all Dick. My hope is that between the two of them everything will come together for us to make a run. Sort of like Coughlin "got it" after a while. There are a lot of guys on this board who want to go with the flavor of the weak as far as coach, GM and QB. Its fuinny, because those fans want to win- and that formula is a proven loser. I think the place were we should spend money is the college/free agent scouting staff. More quality people there should translate to more quality draft choices and help our coaches get more wins. If Barry Switzer could win a SB, Dick Jauron can also.
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 You believe wrong. Link BTW, this is stale data. Jauron, Herm, and Norv Turner have the worst W-L ratio among "tenured" coaches, where tenure would be >4 seasons. Nolan was on the verge but got fired already. Crennel is on the verge and rumors are flying that he'll be fired. Most coaches, if they show they can't win after 3-4 years, are fired and never heard from again.
Cynical Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Ok, for those who want McKelvin pushed into the starting defense after his great game yesterday- take a step back. Greer had a pretty strong season last year and has played at a pretty high level this season, despite dealing with a terrible defensive front. Both definitely have aplace on the D, but I need to see more of what happened yesterday- and I don't mean interceptions- remember, we played a team with a terrible offensive line and rookie QB who will be prone to mistakes. On Trent Edwards- he is showing a combination of being a second year QB and has played abysmally since the concussion against Arizona- how much that concussion is still lingering is anyone's guess- at this point it could just be inexperience. For those who thought is was just going to be great with him this season, get real, get some understanding of the game! He is a young QB, everyone goes through this to some extent- add to that he plays for one of the worst teams in the league. I do like that they are sticking with him after screwing up with JP. He isn't playing like he normally does- too many dump offs and not enough WR's. I do think Reed can become the go-to guy, even more than Lee Evans. When firing on all cylinders, Edwards is MUCH better than Tony Romo, who made one of the worst plays I've ever seen yesterday Lets see: Trent played well in the SD and KC games After the Cleveland game, Trent ADMITTED being confused by defenses he had not prepared for a simplified offensive game plan which probably helped him deal with said confusion But, you are still not quite sure just how much of that concussion is affecting him? You just keep hanging on to that. That way when he plays lousy again, you have got your built in excuse already to go. IMHO, what's wrong with just admitting he is a second year QB going through second year growing pains. Nothing more. No concussions, no stubbed toe, no athlete's foot, etc ... He's struggling because defenses are starting to dial him in. That's what defenses do. And they are professionals, just like Trent. In fact, the majority of them probably have been doing this 'football' thing longer than Trent has. As for your second part, you do realize and remember after last year, Trent earned the nickname of 'Commander Checkdown'? He was being compared to Kelly Holcomb. So how does a player who is noted for checking down in his short career all of a sudden is "not playing normally" when he's checking down? On the offensive line- Langston Walker is the exact same player he was in Oakland. He plays hard, he knows what to do, but can't do it. Fowler and Preston are both smart players, but physically don't cut it. Butler looks liek a great guard, but he can't seem to stay healthy. Peters will be back to form next season as long as he reports on time. We need to get smaller and more athletic, the line is in shambles- and you can't run a coherent offense without a strong line. On the defensive line- Stroud is the best we have at DT and Schobel is all we have at DE. Schobel is getting older and we will only see him injured more- I would consider moving him for draft picks since we pretty much have to start over on the defensive line- same as the OL, you can't run anything coherent here. On the coaching- yes, Jauron isn't one of the better game-day guys, but the team only looks unprepared because of the above problems. I think Jauron does a good job preparing, but doesn't have players who can executte- he should not have a direct hand in aquiring talent, that is a weakness for him. Give him two strong lines and I think he will do fine. Wilson just gave him an extension, so you can forget another coaching change- RW doesn't spend like that- who would want to come to the Bills anyways? Jauron is a grind it out type coach- and that will work if the team is ever built right. There are a lot of guys on this board who want to go with the flavor of the weak as far as coach, GM and QB. Its fuinny, because those fans want to win- and that formula is a proven loser. Saying Jauron is not one of the better game day coaches is wrong. Jauron is a lousy game day coach. Secondly, when two news guys are saying the Bills have not confirmed the extension signing, you might want to rethink saying Jauron does have the extension. Personally, I find that a bit odd. If the Bills did extend Jauron contract, why not come out and admit it? Thirdly, do not kid yourself if you think Jauron will give up his control over personnel. Either learn to live with his decision, or can his ass. IMO, can his ass.
Cynical Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Keep in mind that Turk is learning as well, it's not all Dick. My hope is that between the two of them everything will come together for us to make a run. Sort of like Coughlin "got it" after a while. You do realize Coughlin admitted he had to change himself? These type of transformations are a rare occurrence in the NFL. It takes real commitment to look in the mirror and say to yourself, "The problem with this team is not the players, it's not the scheme, it's not the assistant coaches. The problem is me. The problem is my philosophy and my style. I need to change those." I think the place were we should spend money is the college/free agent scouting staff. More quality people there should translate to more quality draft choices and help our coaches get more wins. If Barry Switzer could win a SB, Dick Jauron can also. Switzer was handed a team loaded with talent and had already won 2 SB, and the assistant coaching staff to go with it. Jauron would have taken over the same team, and would have screwed it up.
BuffBills#1 Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 The original point made in this thread is very very LEGIT!! Without a pass rush the rest of the defense can't make those big plays. As for the O-line, obviously center is our biggest need, and considering Walker has done an OK job, we can afford to leave that alone. We need defensive ends that can actually rush the passer!! However, where the original poster is wrong is the fact that we are not one of the worst teams in the league. We have alot of young talent on this team, and if we added a bonafide pass rusher to this team, along with a legit center to take over for Preston, this team is much closer then people might think. Terrell Suggs and Julius Peppers are UFAs this year, but the chances of us getting either of them are slim to none, considering we're the Bills, but on the bright side this years draft is expected to be a solid one for DE's. Our first 2 picks should be DE and LB or C.
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