Corp000085 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Now there's two examples of outstanding QB play in NE. Is it the system or the QB? Part of me really wishes it is the system, cause obviously cassel is a scrub, it would tarnish brady's legacy, and it would give credence as to why bledsoe was traded within the division... He just couldn't work in the system. I think it's the system. Now, how come it's taken 8 years and nobody really knows how to defend it yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Next year we get our answer. Cassel's a UFA. If he goes and chokes it up in Minnesota, we'll know it was the system. But if he brings the Lions offense to life, well, they had another hit. And if he stays and backs up Brady, you can be certain it's all system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Does system=player talent? Forget about schemes or play-calling. Any QB who has Moss, Welker and friends instead of Berrian and bunch of nobodies is always going to look better. That being said, I wouldn't call Cassel a scrub. He still has to make the throws regardless of the system and the talent level of the players around him. His play is getting better as the season progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Next year we get our answer. Cassel's a UFA. If he goes and chokes it up in Minnesota, we'll know it was the system. But if he brings the Lions offense to life, well, they had another hit. And if he stays and backs up Brady, you can be certain it's all system. I'll eat my hat if he stays in New England backing up Brady. He is going to be laughing all the way to the bank after these last two performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Does system=player talent? Forget about schemes or play-calling. Any QB who has Moss, Welker and friends instead of Berrian and bunch of nobodies is always going to look better. That being said, I wouldn't call Cassel a scrub. He still has to make the throws regardless of the system and the talent level of the players around him. His play is getting better as the season progresses. Brady was doing this long before Moss & Welker showed up...remember, he had Troy Brown, David Patten, & Deion Branch. Brown is now retired (I don't think he ever left NE*) and Patten & Branch haven't exactly lit things up in other places. I'm leaning towards the system right now. Yes, the QB still has to make the throws, but when the QB has plenty of time and the receivers are WIDE open all day long, it's not that hard for an NFL QB to play well in that system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Brady was doing this long before Moss & Welker showed up...remember, he had Troy Brown, David Patten, & Deion Branch. Brown is now retired (I don't think he ever left NE*) and Patten & Branch haven't exactly lit things up in other places. I'm leaning towards the system right now. Yes, the QB still has to make the throws, but when the QB has plenty of time and the receivers are WIDE open all day long, it's not that hard for an NFL QB to play well in that system. I agree that Brady is good no matter who is out there. I was referring to a less talented QB like Cassel who does benefit from having talented WR's around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 brady had slightly above average numbers (while cheating and with a great d that gave him the ball extra times a game) his entire career until last year. brady and cassel are total system qb's -- they are winning because of a good line and moss. randy moss made jeff george and randle cunningham come off the scrap heap and be pro bowlers. he made donte fricking culpepper, who has flamed out and couldn't find a job in the nfl till detroit get desperate, a multiple 30+ TD quarterback. moss might be the best WR ever. both the NE qb's are system goofs getting fluffed by hero worshipers in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I know all of you who watch the games for yourself are thinking it, so Ill come right out and say it. Cassel is better than Brady. 90% of it is the system, its all screen passes and dump offs with a hail mary to Moss in between, a competant HS QB could win a game in that system. I have seen Cassel make so many more plays this year than Brady has done in his career, ala that throw to moss for OT vrs the Jets. Either way niether is as good as their numbers. Cassel>Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Coaching plus solid O-line. Amazing what it can do for a mediocre QB. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I know all of you who watch the games for yourself are thinking it, so Ill come right out and say it. Cassel is better than Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 As much as Bellicheat and crew* have succeeded while cheating they still have to know the best scheme to cheat. He's just a better coach in a coach's league. The league is technological up the azz with percentages, guys behind the scene who use algorithms to call plays, video crews who re-role tape to tell the coach when the challenge, and it goes on and on. On this level the Cheatriots are best. It's the system, and it's a system that is exposed when their other WRs leave and look pedestrian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 System. Cassel will be the next RJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Coaching plus solid O-line. Amazing what it can do for a mediocre QB. PTR Perhaps. But he's been with the NE* club 4 years. I give him credit for learning, paying attention to their offense style during his bench time. We know his story...sitting at USC behind Palmer then Leinart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 brady and cassel are total system qb's -- they are winning because of a good line and moss. Ugh... So you're saying that Peyton Manning is a system QB because he has had a good line and Harrison? Or Kelly was a good QB because he had a good line and Reed? At some point you have to give a guy credit. It's not that Cassel is a system QB, it's that because of some of the weapons the Patriots possess, he is able to bring out his best abilities. System. Cassel will be the next RJ. Sorry buddy, but Cassel is 8th in passing yards, 11th in TDs, and 11th in QB rating. Rob Johnson only had one good game. I'm not saying Cassel will be a stud on his next team, but he's not in the same situation as one-game Johnson was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Ugh... So you're saying that Peyton Manning is a system QB because he has had a good line and Harrison? Or Kelly was a good QB because he had a good line and Reed? At some point you have to give a guy credit. It's not that Cassel is a system QB, it's that because of some of the weapons the Patriots possess, he is able to bring out his best abilities. re read my post. the ne qb's are system guys. proof: without moss and the current O (include welker) brady had slightly above average numbers for his career. this is with proven cheating. moss by himself has made bad/not great qbs (cunningham, culpepper, george) into probowl and all pro players. these are players who were on the scrap heap before, or after moss. now that brady is down cassell (who hasn't started a game since HS) is putting up big numbers for the pats. it's all about moss, the line and the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 right coach, right system, right players = W's We can call him Bellicheat til we are blue in the face, he is still a great coach and he puts the right players into the right system and fields a very strong team year in, year out. You can't cheat in the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 It is the system with no question. Brady would succeed with any team, but I doubt to the extent he has in NE. On top of that, cheating doesn't hurt your chances either when you know what defense the other team is going to run or what plays their offense is going run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 It is the system with no question. Brady would succeed with any team, but I doubt to the extent he has in NE. On top of that, cheating doesn't hurt your chances either when you know what defense the other team is going to run or what plays their offense is going run. so apparently they are still cheating this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Wheels Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Cassel paid his dues as Brady's backup. It's about time he got some credit. Yeah, he has Welker and Moss to throw to, but back-to-back 400 yard games deserves some respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Anderson's Lunch Pail Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 re read my post. the ne qb's are system guys. proof: without moss and the current O (include welker) brady had slightly above average numbers for his career. this is with proven cheating. moss by himself has made bad/not great qbs (cunningham, culpepper, george) into probowl and all pro players. these are players who were on the scrap heap before, or after moss. now that brady is down cassell (who hasn't started a game since HS) is putting up big numbers for the pats. it's all about moss, the line and the system. I could understand your logic if the Patriots were playing against air rather than real NFL football players. But Cassel still has to make the throws. And clearly he has football sense, as evidenced by his TD scrambles the last few weeks. But this ends the argument right here: What NFL QB has been sacked the most this season? Matt Cassel. So much for that great line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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