AKC Posted October 26, 2004 Author Share Posted October 26, 2004 That link seems to only mention passing yards. I see no mention of passer rating, the statistic that the NFL actually uses to judge its passers. 86888[/snapback] You can't possibly be serious. A fabricated formula that has been exposed since the introduction of the West Coast offense to be fatally flawed? Do you honestly believe that Steve Young was the best QB of all time as the "Passer Ratings" suggest? You honestly would rest your reputation on TBD stating that Dante Culpepper and Jeff Garcia are among the top 10 Quarterbacks of ALL TIME? Please stop with your obvious attempt at humor- you can't in any lifetime be suggesting that Brad Johnson and Brian Griese are the 15th and 16th best QB in the History of The NFL?!!! Here, let's explore your theorum- Are Brad Johnson and Brian Griese even the 15th and 16th best QBs in the NFL TODAY? You've got them at 15 and 16 ALL-TIME, where do they rate among the league's best in their own era? I'm ANXIOUS to hear your answer!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutting Drew With Dignity Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Is John Hadl still available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 as much as we would like to think we as fans are better than most, every fan base has the same good and bad qualities. just look at the board here, we are talking about running DB out of town, we are looking forward to TH being dealt. Sadly we are no different than the raider nation or <gasp> felon fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 As a new jumper off the Drew bandwagon, last game sealed it for me. I think that you are right on about the inanity of the death of a pure pocket passer. There's still ample room for them. But that's not what plauguing the Bills nor Bledsoe. Others have correctly pointed to the fact that mobility and pocket presence have very little to do with one another. Bledsoe has neither. My concern with his deteriorating play has been signaled by his decision making and the complete inability to make a short throw. The talking heads were apoplectic about his tightrope pass to Evans in the Jets game, but what's killing the team is his uncanny ability to shot put a 5 yd pass and be woefully off target on a very consistent basis. You cite the replay of the pass behind Moulds as absolving Drew of blame, since he couldn't get it through the passing lane. But, Moulds was so open, a lob pass would have easily cleared the line and caught Moulds in stride. It is a toss that college QBs do with regularity. When was the last time you saw Bledsoe lob a perfect jump ball that Letwich tossed in game 1? Don't want to use that example? Then what about the countless overthrows of wide open receivers that are 5-10 yds off the line of scrimmage? There is absolutely no touch or accuracy. Ever time they run a screen, I cringe because I fear a play that Deion returned for a TD. How about not looking off a WR in your 12th year in the league. You think there was another reason that there were 3 Ravens DBs around Evans on another INT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 How about not looking off a WR in your 12th year in the league. You think there was another reason that there were 3 Ravens DBs around Evans on another INT? 86934[/snapback] The sad thing about that throw is it's a TD if he throws it at his knees. Instead, he saves THAT pass for the 3 yard out he throws to Reed earlier in the game. Simple, yet costly mistakes in judgement that are the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted October 27, 2004 Author Share Posted October 27, 2004 Did you watch Jennings in the jest game? It gets no worse. Big Mike is a worthless piece of stevestojan. We have no true center, and our LG sucks. Drew has taken 125 brutal sacks in 2 1/2 years. Honestly, how much is too much? 86901[/snapback] With the change at RB I won't be surprised at all to see our team move up before the end of the season to become a top rushing team. I believe that will happen with the OLinemen we have on the roster. The reason I think that will happen is that in watching the two different styles between Henry and McGahee I see our "former" starter who wants to hit a hole and run, take it off the exchange and dash into a hole. We both know that's not been an "ideally" fruitful style, in fact I'm leaning towards the opinion that it might just be making our line look less competent than they may really be. I base that on when McGahee gets the ball behind the same guys running the same scheme- I keep noticing his patience in letting the blocking mature before he makes his move. It's an interesting trait for a guy McGahee's size- a 240 pounder with some of the blocking instincts of Thurman Thomas? It's intriguing and too long in coming this season. From this I believe with Willis in the starting role the line will look better than they do with Travis as starter (in my opinion it's already evident). I also think if Travis can keep his juvenile sensitivities in check he'll excel as the change-up back who hits holes quickly in spot duty. He can therefore increase his off-season value becasue his fuble number will be reduced by his more limited opportunities to fumble and that will hopefully allow some team manager to covet him going into 2005. And before we COMPLETELY give up Big Mike remember one stat from this season that we might be paying a lot more attention to with this starting RB change- Willis is averaging a full 4.9 yards per carry over the right side at this time. When he gets a chance to pound on a team like Arizona all day long and go into the 4th with the lead I wonder if he might not just extend that average a bit higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I agree that OL play is underestimated by a lot of casual fans, while the importance of QB play is overrated. However, the QB IS the most important player on the team, even if it's not necessarily the most important position. There are 5 OLmen and only 1 QB. It is absurd to say that Kevin Mawae is "carrying" the Jets offense. He might be their best player, but he's a small fraction of the reason for them scoring points. He's been there for what - 9 years? The Jets have had some pretty average offensive teams during that span - particularly without Pennington. Perhaps him, Pete Kendall, and the other 3 guys are a big reason for success. Lets say Bledsoe & Pennington traded teams tommorow: The Jets offense is probably still better, but I think you're fooling yourself to think that the gap doesn't narrow considerably. The goal of course, is to improve the overall team when evaluating these positions. Philadelphia decided a better pass-rush with Jevon Kearse could compensate for losing their CB's since DE's and CB's are not unrelated with respect to the defense. Along similar lines, QB and OL are closely related as well. If it was feasible w/ the salary cap to replace all 5 OLmen, I'd say go for it, but - right now we have no choice but to put all of our eggs into JP's basket for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 You can't possibly be serious. A fabricated formula that has been exposed since the introduction of the West Coast offense to be fatally flawed? Fabricated and flawed or not, I'll take a formula that takes ALL passing statistics into account over a single stat that is among the least important used to judge the success of a passer. The fact that Bledsoe has the 11th most passing yards of all time shows just how meaningless a statistic it is. His career defines mediocrity. Whether you like it or not, the Pro Football Hall of Fame uses passer rating to judge QBs, and that should be good enough for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Fabricated and flawed or not, I'll take a formula that takes ALL passing statistics into account over a single stat that is among the least important used to judge the success of a passer. The fact that Bledsoe has the 11th most passing yards of all time shows just how meaningless a statistic it is. His career defines mediocrity. Whether you like it or not, the Pro Football Hall of Fame uses passer rating to judge QBs, and that should be good enough for anyone. 87093[/snapback] I strongly disagree that the Pro Football Hall of Fame uses passer rating to judge Qb's. A quick look at the QB membership will reveal to you a host of tough guys, winners, leaders, and surgeons (the only group who would probably refllect your theory of how ratings are used in the Hall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I strongly disagree that the Pro Football Hall of Fame uses passer rating to judge Qb's. A quick look at the QB membership will reveal to you a host of tough guys, winners, leaders, and surgeons (the only group who would probably refllect your theory of how ratings are used in the Hall). I'm not talking about their induction practices. I'm talking about the HoF weekly top 20 list that ranks RBs by rushing yards, WRs and TEs by receiving yards, and QBs by passer rating, NOT passing yardage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I strongly disagree that the Pro Football Hall of Fame uses passer rating to judge Qb's. A quick look at the QB membership will reveal to you a host of tough guys, winners, leaders, and surgeons (the only group who would probably refllect your theory of how ratings are used in the Hall). 87113[/snapback] Yep. One thing I think we can all agree on is that Drew is NOT Hall-of-Fame material. He wore out his welcome amongst the Patriots press, and I've got a feeling that no one in Buffalo will be campaigning for him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I'm not talking about their induction practices. I'm talking about the HoF weekly top 20 list that ranks RBs by rushing yards, WRs and TEs by receiving yards, and QBs by passer rating, NOT passing yardage. 87127[/snapback] Ok thanks for the clarification. But (while I understand your point) I still have a question for you.... Would YOU rank a TE by receiving yards ? Hmmm...... Think about that one for a sec...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Ok thanks for the clarification. But (while I understand your point) I still have a question for you.... Would YOU rank a TE by receiving yards ? Hmmm...... Think about that one for a sec...... First off, let me correct my word usage. The site ranks rushers by rushing yards, receivers by receiving yards, and passers by passer rating. Position doesn't really matter as long as the numbers are there. Secondly, receiving yards are the only statistic by which to measure TEs, since the NFL does not record blocking statistics. That said, no player at any position should ever be judged purely by statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 That said, no player at any position should ever be judged purely by statistics. 87136[/snapback] Exactly, and that's why Bledsoe doesn't have a prayer at making the HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 First off, let me correct my word usage. The site ranks rushers by rushing yards, receivers by receiving yards, and passers by passer rating. Position doesn't really matter as long as the numbers are there. Secondly, receiving yards are the only statistic by which to measure TEs, since the NFL does not record blocking statistics. That said, no player at any position should ever be judged purely by statistics. 87136[/snapback] Exactly so now you understand my point that just the plain fact that the Pro Football Hall of Fame has a weekly palyer ranking that happens to use passer rating as the stick for Qb's is not the proof that "greatness" or "productivity" should be measured that way any more than using passing yards is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Exactly so now you understand my point that just the plain fact that the Pro Football Hall of Fame has a weekly palyer ranking that happens to use passer rating as the stick for Qb's is not the proof that "greatness" or "productivity" should be measured that way any more than using passing yards is. We agree, no stat should be used as the sole measuring stick of a player's greatness. That said, if you're going to use a stat, one that incorporates multiple aspects of a player's game (like passer rating) would be better than that doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lamb Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 "Whether you like it or not, the Pro Football Hall of Fame uses passer rating to judge QBs, and that should be good enough for anyone." 87093[/snapback] There is so much more to judging a HOF player than just some numbers. No one has ever managed to figure out how to measure leadership, heart and sheer guts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 As a fan I believe that Tom Donahoe knows a hell of a lot more about football than I do. If we were a team being routed regularly by bad football teams I’d have a lot tougher questions for him, but the continued improvement of this team is what I expect from his forces. 86704[/snapback] WTH are you talking about? We are getting beaten by bad football teams although not routed. How is this good? Or improvement? The Ravens minus Lewis? Oakland? Barely winning over Miami? This team is moving backwards in the truest sense of the word. There's no improvement. We're scoring less from last season when everyone said it can't possibly get any worse. If what you said about TD is true, then at least we'd be around .500 and staying steady, not getting worse from season to season under him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 My own biggest complaint about Drew is that he doesn’t seem to motivate the playmakers around him to make big plays- I remember when I played ball as a WR it was the best QBs who came into the huddle and looked me in the eye with a “MAKE A PLAY HERE” that I knew my number was up and it was time to go high, low, over or under to make something happen. I don’t see that with Drew. He's not getting our playmakers up and they're not doing it on their own either. Our failures to date in 2004 highlight a season in which the playmakers on our offense have been LESS rather than MORE likely to make the big play when it makes a difference. The 2004 season has played out with a new staff asking our old offensive roster to play a different game. We’ve seen blocking breakdowns game after game from our running backs. Our WRs continue to lead the league in dropped balls. The play from our QB spot has been one of the more steady and even positive spots on our offense. Surely there have been those vampires waiting through this early struggle to blame everything on the QB, and they’ve picked a 3 tipped ball game to do so. It’s very convenient to ignore the balls bouncing off our “star” WR’s chest in the end zone and focusing on the QB. That’s certainly what the big market fan always thinks- the QB must play perfectly to make up for the likelihood that everyone else will fail at times. But football doesn’t work that way. Every player will fail at times; the QB has ample opportunities to fail and has the highest visibility. So the QB consumes the frustration of some. The simple reality is that the biggest improvements we can make on our offense to win games right now have nothing to do with the QB position. 86704[/snapback] Who knows...you may be right...but...well you knew there HAD to be a but coming... To me Win/Loss numbers just don't lie...Drew Bledsoe has not led an NFL Football Team to a winning Record since the 1998 Season...That's an eternity in Pro Football...Something is definitely wrong with Bledsoe as a Leader of an NFL Team, and he's just not the type of QB who wants to take a back seat and go along for the ride. DB puts himself out as a Leader, and he does not lead well...For whatever reason. And for the record I have no earthly idea why...But I think you covered that problem... The big problem here, to me anyway, is the Win/Loss Record...At the start of this Season, 8 NFL Teams had Starting QB's who did not have a single winning Season since 1998. But the names of those QB's are Harrington Leftwich, Boller, Carr, Brees, Rattay, McCown, and Grossman...They're Kids...Bledsoe is a Vet, and the only Vet QB (to my knowledge) Starting in the NFL without a single winning Season since freaking 1998...Maybe not so surprisingly, 5 of those "Kid" QB's (Leftwich, Herrington, Boller, Brees, and Carr) have led their Teams to a collective 20-12 record so far in 2005...They are progressing, Drew is not...That to me says it all... I have never said Bledsoe is the only problem with the Bills Offense...ever...But there is something else going on here...Call it lost magic, a jinx, whatever... Call it anything, but don't call it doing enough to win, because Bledsoe simply has not done it (winning consistantly) in a long time now...And I feel bad for Drew. The way his career started it looked obvious that he would go down as one of the greatest ever, and it just did not turn out that way. It's kind of sad, but even sadder when he's the Starter for your favorite Team... I disagree that it is a "simple reality that the biggest improvements we can make on our Offense to win games right now have nothing to do with the QB position." It's not a simple reality, it's an unknown. We don't know, just the way the Pats had no idea they would become a Super Bowl Contender when Brady stepped in...There's just no telling...But what we do know, what is a simple reality, is the fact that Bledsoe is 28-44 as a Starter in his last 72 Games dating back to the start of the 1999 Season... That reality is indisputable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 There is so much more to judging a HOF player than just some numbers. No one has ever managed to figure out how to measure leadership, heart and sheer guts 87233[/snapback] Just to clarify, I was talking only of the HoF website's weekly top 20 all-time statistical rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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