Tortured Soul Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I've been arguing this for years. Americans just assume that Toronto will glom onto any franchise the NFL throws their way, but they absolutely love the Argonauts up there! Yes, the NFL is a brand of football with the most talented players. But that doesn't a guarantee that tickets will sell and that the team would be marketable. Imagine if the CFL decided to expand to America (they actually did one time in Vegas) and they put a team in Buffalo. Let's hypothetically say that the new team was more successful than the Bills. Would anybody choose the new CFL team over the Bills? No way in hell. So why do we think the Torontans will choose the Bills over the Argos? I doubt the stadium would even sell out after the first few games. It's worth pointing out that it's not "Americans" assuming Canadians would latch onto anything the NFL throws their way. It's Toronto born and educated Ted Rogers, the wealthiest Canadian and an accomplished businessman. He signed the contract bringing the NFL to Canada, and no one was holding a gun to his head at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Well from an attendance perspective, the Blue Jays and Expos were the two teams that suffered the worst from the 1994 strike year. Of course for the Expos fans, there was a feeling of treachery because they were a heavy favorite to win the World Series that year. But aside from that, I've always found it interesting that Canadian baseball never really recovered from the strike, whereas the American teams show no lingering effects. It's not their national sport, so there wasn't a depth of passion for it. People just found other things to do. On the other hand, the CFL does have that base of diehards ... just not enough of them to fill the Rogers Centre for a generic Argos game. I will tell you this, though: if the Bills continue at their current level of mediocrity, Toronto will NOT support them the way Buffalo has. In fact, at the game Monday night, the guy sitting next to a friend of mine told him, "I'm from Toronto, and if this is how it's going to be, you have NOTHING to worry about. They won't put up with this." Well. That makes me feel a little better. I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 It's worth pointing out that it's not "Americans" assuming Canadians would latch onto anything the NFL throws their way. It's Toronto born and educated Ted Rogers, the wealthiest Canadian and an accomplished businessman. He signed the contract bringing the NFL to Canada, and no one was holding a gun to his head at the time. Yes, but almost everybody I talk to seems to have the same "Buffalo is a dead end, the NFL will make far more money if the franchise moves to Toronto" attitude. That's more what I was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 It's worth pointing out that it's not "Americans" assuming Canadians would latch onto anything the NFL throws their way. It's Toronto born and educated Ted Rogers, the wealthiest Canadian and an accomplished businessman. He signed the contract bringing the NFL to Canada, and no one was holding a gun to his head at the time. The NFL has been talking about going international for years, long before the Bills decide to play in Toronto. While you are correct that nobody was holding a gun to Rogers head when he signed a contract, nobody was holding a gun to Wilson's or the NFL's head either. Businessmen, regardless of their nationality, will make stupid business decisions. Regardless of who signed the contract, that still does not negate most Americans believing the Bills will be successful in Toronto because everybody wants an NFL franchise or wants to at least watch one in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Yes, but almost everybody I talk to seems to have the same "Buffalo is a dead end, the NFL will make far more money if the franchise moves to Toronto" attitude. That's more what I was talking about. The NFL will make more money if the franchise moves ... and not just to Toronto, but to anywhere with the sizable corporate base the Niagara Frontier lacks. Goodell may talk a good game, but I still believe that naming rights, premium-seat sales and suite leases mean more to the league than the Joe Sixpack buying the jerseys and the cheap endzone seats. Although, considering the current state of the economy, that isn't as much of a slam-dunk as it was a year ago. Mark me down as one more person amused by the thought that Jerry Jones might take a financial beating on his new playpen in Dallas ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Check out this article - not even sure why they are even bothering with trying to play there... I know - f-ck them, but I do respect the intense sense of Nationalism the Canadiens display for their sport... http://www.thestar.com/article/541713 torontonians smirk when the speak about buffalo....they consider themselves very superior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 torontonians smirk when the speak about buffalo....they consider themselves very superior Imagine that. Canadians living in Canada having a sense of national pride. Who would have thunk it. What's next? British people living in England thinking their the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbills17 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 torontonians smirk when the speak about buffalo....they consider themselves very superior What is this notion of being 'superior'? I'm a Canadian and I think it's pointless and ridiculous to say 'we're superior'. How do you even define that, superior in what? I love my country, but I travel a lot and also love America, Germany, England, Austria, etc. There are good people everywhere and great countries everywhere, who really spends time thinking this way? The sad thing about America is the negative attitude that people sometimes have for Americans around the world -- this is a direct result of people not liking leaders like George Bush and then painting everyone in America with that same brush. I also have been a die-hard Bills fan for 20 years and really couldn't care for the CFL so there are some of us out here I've been to enough Bills games in Buffalo to know and understand how amazing gameday is in Buffalo so while I really hope the Bills never leave, I do think playing a few games in Toronto is important and a good thing that brings in much-needed revenue to the team so they can compete with the 'big markets'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 With cheaper tickets than the Bills sell at RWS, the Argos average 30,000 fans for their home games. Multiple franchises have folded in Montreal and Ottawa; the current Alouettes are transplanted from Baltimore. Both Toronto and Hamilton went bankrupt and were taken over by the league in 2003. And in the most recent survey by Reginald Bibby, a sociologist at the University of Lethbridge, the CFL was more popular than the NFL in all but one province. The exception? Ontario. Rogers screwed the pooch with his insanely high tickets; if he'd priced them near the NFL average, the game would have sold out in July. Too bad for him ... and I dearly hope Ralph got his cash up front. Ding, Ding, Ding We have a winner. The ticket prices in TO for that game are insanely high, witht he lowest tickets almost as much as sitting in the "Club seats" in Buffalo right now. Toronto is Canadas largest populated City, and is probably the closest city in comparison to the US. A team would survive there if the Canadian dollar was better and more stable so the exchange rate wouldn't be a huge obstacle for owners and players salaries. There are enough CFL fans who are diehards that would keep the Argos in alive and not kill the CFL, and enough people in Southern Ontario to keep an NFL team there if the tickets are comparible tothe average cost of an NFL ticket. The big deal with Toronto is that they have the corporations there and the big money to buy the luxury boxes and keep money coming in. They would have a small town company like Perry's Ice Cream being their biggest corporate sponsors at their games. If it was any other City then Toronto, like Calgary, Vancouver, Saskatoon, Montreal,...... then I would agree and say that the NFL has no chance because most people there will stick with the "National game" of the CFL and not be swept in by the NFL. Southern Ontario is more "Americanized" then the rest of the country, they have more influence and are much closer to the US then the rest of the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 torontonians smirk when the speak about buffalo....they consider themselves very superior So does the rest of the US, whats your point? Are you complaining cause Canadians show some national pride and think that their home is better? Or is that something only Buffalonians are allowed to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 If you've ever been to a toronto raptors game, you would understand that they are pretty lame fairweather fans. The atmosphere at a raptors game is 5% of what a bills game is. Even compared to other NBA games, it is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 So does the rest of the US, whats your point? Are you complaining cause Canadians show some national pride and think that their home is better? Or is that something only Buffalonians are allowed to do? The smirking implies that they look down on Buffalo and is very ironic. I don't think these Canadians actually look down on Buffalo, they simply have pride in their own home, as sad as that may be. The ironic part is that their own ignorance of how to communicate perpetuates their predicament. The smirking is a sign of disdain whereas puffing out one's chest at the mention of Canada would be a sign of pride. So with this one simple act of smirking they both miscommunicate their intent and confirm the stupidity that is so stereotyped for Canadians. If they had simply puffed out their chests instead of smirking, the Americans could go back to pitying them instead of being angry. This type of thing is how hard feelings between cultures develop over time. I for one, blame the Americans in this instance. By forgetting how stupid the Canadian is, they make a problem out of something that shouldn't be a problem. The American should simply explain to the Canadian the difference between a smirk and a puff. Granted it may draw an annoying confused look and take a while to explain, but it is still the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 The funny, (read sad), thing about WNY with the cynicism directed to Toronto - 50 years ago, people from Toronto used to pack up the car and come to Buffalo to visit, shop, etc.. In that reletively short time, their city has grown into one of the top in North America (for many things), while Buffalo has fallen into the ranks of country wide joke, (on many fronts). As someone I know once commented on a city - Buffalo can be likened to a beautiful ship with an insane crew at the healm...Shame on the cities/counties leadership or lack there of this past 1/2 century. If Buffalo were a bank, the Feds would have seized her long ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 The smirking implies that they look down on Buffalo and is very ironic. I don't think these Canadians actually look down on Buffalo, they simply have pride in their own home, as sad as that may be. The ironic part is that their own ignorance of how to communicate perpetuates their predicament. The smirking is a sign of disdain whereas puffing out one's chest at the mention of Canada would be a sign of pride. So with this one simple act of smirking they both miscommunicate their intent and confirm the stupidity that is so stereotyped for Canadians. If they had simply puffed out their chests instead of smirking, the Americans could go back to pitying them instead of being angry. This type of thing is how hard feelings between cultures develop over time. I for one, blame the Americans in this instance. By forgetting how stupid the Canadian is, they make a problem out of something that shouldn't be a problem. The American should simply explain to the Canadian the difference between a smirk and a puff. Granted it may draw an annoying confused look and take a while to explain, but it is still the right thing to do. Why don't you tell us about your experiences in Canada and the reasons for your ignorant views towards Canadians? I guess everyone should be painted with the same brush, oh wait, that would mean all American are as rude and ignorant as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 The smirking implies that they look down on Buffalo and is very ironic. I don't think these Canadians actually look down on Buffalo, they simply have pride in their own home, as sad as that may be. The ironic part is that their own ignorance of how to communicate perpetuates their predicament. The smirking is a sign of disdain whereas puffing out one's chest at the mention of Canada would be a sign of pride. So with this one simple act of smirking they both miscommunicate their intent and confirm the stupidity that is so stereotyped for Canadians. If they had simply puffed out their chests instead of smirking, the Americans could go back to pitying them instead of being angry. This type of thing is how hard feelings between cultures develop over time. I for one, blame the Americans in this instance. By forgetting how stupid the Canadian is, they make a problem out of something that shouldn't be a problem. The American should simply explain to the Canadian the difference between a smirk and a puff. Granted it may draw an annoying confused look and take a while to explain, but it is still the right thing to do. Only you could use up 9 lines of text and say absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I think this much ado about nothing. The games in Toronto are to help regionalize the Bills to extend it's fan base in Buffalo. I dont see them moving to Toronto. As for LA, San Diego is homeless after this season. If anybody moves to LA it's San Diego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 My old boss used to say "Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered." Absolutely the case here. If Rodgers had kept tickets at a more reasonable price, he would have sold them out. And now the economy is in the $h!tter. I hope Ralph got paid upfront. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grog Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Do you really think it would take though? Don't you think we're too set in our ways for the most part to accept a new league? You say the smaller markets might lose their NFL franchises. So let's say Buffalo, Cleveland, KC, etc lose their NFL teams and the CFL moves in. I'm not sure enough people would buy it. Most Bills fans I know would just give up on football if the Bills ever left town, and I'm sure that's the case in the other small market cities. If the Bills leave Buffalo, not that it means much much, but I'm one that is done with the NFL GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Well from an attendance perspective, the Blue Jays and Expos were the two teams that suffered the worst from the 1994 strike year. Of course for the Expos fans, there was a feeling of treachery because they were a heavy favorite to win the World Series that year. But aside from that, I've always found it interesting that Canadian baseball never really recovered from the strike, whereas the American teams show no lingering effects. The strike was a joke and yes you're right, Montreal never really recovered from it. You know what else didn't help? The Olympic Stadium is located in the worst place you could locate a sporting event in Montreal. But I think CFL is crap and if the Bills ever left Buffalo, well NFL would most likely be over for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Only you could use up 9 lines of text and say absolutely nothing. I beg to differ. Have you ever met Pyrite Gal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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