lets review this losman disaster

[K-9]

i wish him well in the CFL.

 

He'd do well in the CFL. Hell, he could still GO LONG in the red zone!

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Flbillsfan#1]

I like seeing people's opinions and talking or debating opinions .

But I don't live and die with it like some people.

Lets face it to some people it's like a religion.

 

For example, there was someone from another teams forum saying how miserable we must feel after the game moday.

But for me the game ended and it's over with the minute the game ended.

I don't feel bad.

 

I discuss what happened but I don't get down over it.

You are obviously very young. I will tell you what my father told me when I was a boy: Keep your eyes & ears open & your mouth shut & you may learn something. I think you would do yourself a favor by reading more & posting less.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

How many SB's victories, does Parcells have, I think that the answer is two, and if it weren't for, heaven forbid,

wide right, he would have only one, what makes him an expert? He is way overrated.

 

Do you realize how big of an accomplishment it is to win 2 superbowls as a coach? Also, he is regarded as one of the best player and personnel evaluators in the game. But no, he's overrated.

[FreakPop]

Lawyer Milloy, no.

 

 

I think it was Troy Vincent that accidentally ran him over in training camp and broke his leg. I could be wrong though, i'm not 100% sure.

[2003Contenders]

Getting back to the original poster's question about what was said at the time... I remember all of this stuff like it was yesterday.

 

First the history of why the Bills selected Losman.

 

The team was coming off a very disappointing 6-10 season, a year after having gone 8-8 and having revamped the defense with acquisitions like Takeo and Adams. Despite the poor record, the defense played very well, and Travis Henry had a pretty good year too. The primary blame, then, fell on the shoulders of Bledsoe, whose skills were clearly declining and Gilbride, who had just gone out the door with Gregg. Mularkey was the new coach, Pittsburgh's former offensive coordinator who had cleaned up after Gilbride once before in Pittsburgh and was credited with having turned Tommy Maddox's career around. Repaying long time debts, Mularkey hired Sam Wyche as the new QB coach. With Bledsoe's days numbered, the team agreed that they needed to find an heir apparent, and one of Wyche's first tasks was to scout the young guys coming out of college.

 

Wyche attended Eli Manning's workout in New Orleans. After Eli was done and most of the scouts left, Wyche hung around for JP's much less pulicized workout. Wyche came away believing that JP had had the better workout that day. He felt that JP's arm was stronger and he was more athletic than Manning.

 

Heading into the draft, the QB that the team had ranked as their #1 QB was Roethlisberger. They knew that the Steelers had their sights set on him and tried to trade up ahead of the #11 spot to get him. With Big Ben gone, the Bils stayed pat at #13 and drafted Lee Evans. They had a borderline 1sr round/2nd round grade on JP, but knew that he would be gone before the 2nd round, since their intel led them to believe that both the Packers and the Rams, who were picking in the mid 20's were considering drafting him. They also saw a significant drop-off between JP and their next ranked QB. Moreover, Donahoe and Modrak looked ahead to the next year's draft, and they were not convinced that there was a 1st-round quality QB coming out in 2005 that would be ranked as highly as JP was at THAT time. Thus, they made the move to come up out of the 2nd round to draft JP. The addition of the new 1st round pick (from Dallas) cost them their 2004 2nd and 5th rounders as well as their 2005 1st rounder.

 

What was said at the time.

 

Kiper had Losman ranked as an early 2nd round pick. He saw the move by the Bills to be a slight reach, but he understood the reasoning, so he was not highly critical. He agreed with the assessment that, from a physical standpoint, JP ranked right up there with Manning/Rivers/Big Ben. However, questions about his leadership, maturity and ability to read a defense dropped his grade. Mort's focus was more on the fact that, by making the trade with the Bills, Dallas had lost out on the best running back in the draft, Steven Jackson. And RB was a great position of need for the Cowboys, who wound up taking Julius Jones with the Bills' 2nd round pick.

 

Jaws LOVED the pick. He predicted that Losman would be a much better pro than Rivers. He showed clips of JP's ability to throw the deep out, which he said was the hardest pass to throw in the NFL. He agreed that JP would be entering the league behind the other three in terms of his development but felt that he had the advantage of having Wyche, who had groomed Montana and Esiasen, as a QB coach. Hodge didn't like the pick because he felt that JP was too erratic.

 

Meanwhile, Mike Mayock was probably the most prophetic of all. He said that JP was probably the most naturally gifted QB in the draft. He predicted that there would be plays where he would do something that would make you say "Wow!" then he would turn around and do something that would make you shake your head. His success would depend upon how much a team would be able to live with his mistakes. He also reckoned that his situation may not be too bad if he had 2 or 3 years to sit behind Bledsoe.

 

And our friend Jerry Sullivan? Well, he was in his full anti-Drew mode at that time. In his last article leading up to the draft, he DEMANDED that the Bills do whatever they had to do to secure drafting a top flight QB. Then after the draft, he criticized them for giving up too much to move up for what he thought was a fringe QB like Losman. In hind-sight he was right about their giving up too much, but the Bills had no shot at Manning/Rivers/Big Ben.

[49er Fan]

That's a sweet post.

 

So in hindsight the Bills should have drafted Matt Schaub or given the house away to Pittsburgh for Roethlisberger to sit for one year behind Bledsoe.

 

Other QBs from '04:

 

2nd round - none

3rd round - Matt Schaub

4th round - Luke McCown

5th round - Craig Krenzel

6th round - Andy Hall

7th round - John Navarre, Cody Pickett, Casey Bramlet, Matt Mauck, B.J. Symons, Bradlee Van Pelt

 

Interestingly, had the Bills not traded up with Dallas for Losman, their 2nd round/#43 pick could have been used on S Bob Sanders, whom the Colts took at #44.

[Hanoverbills]

We know that is probably not true because he failed under multiple coaches.

Losman is the common denominator

Yea,look at Edwards,Must be our coaches.Didn't some HOF coach tell us to pick him?He not getting any better under our coaches we have know.

[TheKing]

You are obviously very young. I will tell you what my father told me when I was a boy: Keep your eyes & ears open & your mouth shut & you may learn something. I think you would do yourself a favor by reading more & posting less.

Your father was absolutely correct in telling you to keep your mouth shut.

He should still be telling you that today.

When you begin to gain some intelligence then open that trap.

 

In the meantime i'll take the place of your father for a second and tell you two things, keep that hole of yours shut and develop some manhood.

Stop swooning over JP ,I'm sure your father wouldn't be too pleased, I know mine wouldn't, if you are going to swoon at all ,swoon over women.

Your father will be relieved to see it.

[TheKing]

Yea,look at Edwards,Must be our coaches.Didn't some HOF coach tell us to pick him?He not getting any better under our coaches we have know.

Those aren't my words, I think Edwards ia playing horrible right now.

And I do not think it's the coaching.

I could be a head injury or it could be just bad play , period.

[TheKing]

Getting back to the original poster's question about what was said at the time... I remember all of this stuff like it was yesterday.

 

First the history of why the Bills selected Losman.

 

The team was coming off a very disappointing 6-10 season, a year after having gone 8-8 and having revamped the defense with acquisitions like Takeo and Adams. Despite the poor record, the defense played very well, and Travis Henry had a pretty good year too. The primary blame, then, fell on the shoulders of Bledsoe, whose skills were clearly declining and Gilbride, who had just gone out the door with Gregg. Mularkey was the new coach, Pittsburgh's former offensive coordinator who had cleaned up after Gilbride once before in Pittsburgh and was credited with having turned Tommy Maddox's career around. Repaying long time debts, Mularkey hired Sam Wyche as the new QB coach. With Bledsoe's days numbered, the team agreed that they needed to find an heir apparent, and one of Wyche's first tasks was to scout the young guys coming out of college.

 

Wyche attended Eli Manning's workout in New Orleans. After Eli was done and most of the scouts left, Wyche hung around for JP's much less pulicized workout. Wyche came away believing that JP had had the better workout that day. He felt that JP's arm was stronger and he was more athletic than Manning.

 

Heading into the draft, the QB that the team had ranked as their #1 QB was Roethlisberger. They knew that the Steelers had their sights set on him and tried to trade up ahead of the #11 spot to get him. With Big Ben gone, the Bils stayed pat at #13 and drafted Lee Evans. They had a borderline 1sr round/2nd round grade on JP, but knew that he would be gone before the 2nd round, since their intel led them to believe that both the Packers and the Rams, who were picking in the mid 20's were considering drafting him. They also saw a significant drop-off between JP and their next ranked QB. Moreover, Donahoe and Modrak looked ahead to the next year's draft, and they were not convinced that there was a 1st-round quality QB coming out in 2005 that would be ranked as highly as JP was at THAT time. Thus, they made the move to come up out of the 2nd round to draft JP. The addition of the new 1st round pick (from Dallas) cost them their 2004 2nd and 5th rounders as well as their 2005 1st rounder.

 

What was said at the time.

 

Kiper had Losman ranked as an early 2nd round pick. He saw the move by the Bills to be a slight reach, but he understood the reasoning, so he was not highly critical. He agreed with the assessment that, from a physical standpoint, JP ranked right up there with Manning/Rivers/Big Ben. However, questions about his leadership, maturity and ability to read a defense dropped his grade. Mort's focus was more on the fact that, by making the trade with the Bills, Dallas had lost out on the best running back in the draft, Steven Jackson. And RB was a great position of need for the Cowboys, who wound up taking Julius Jones with the Bills' 2nd round pick.

 

Jaws LOVED the pick. He predicted that Losman would be a much better pro than Rivers. He showed clips of JP's ability to throw the deep out, which he said was the hardest pass to throw in the NFL. He agreed that JP would be entering the league behind the other three in terms of his development but felt that he had the advantage of having Wyche, who had groomed Montana and Esiasen, as a QB coach. Hodge didn't like the pick because he felt that JP was too erratic.

 

Meanwhile, Mike Mayock was probably the most prophetic of all. He said that JP was probably the most naturally gifted QB in the draft. He predicted that there would be plays where he would do something that would make you say "Wow!" then he would turn around and do something that would make you shake your head. His success would depend upon how much a team would be able to live with his mistakes. He also reckoned that his situation may not be too bad if he had 2 or 3 years to sit behind Bledsoe.

 

And our friend Jerry Sullivan? Well, he was in his full anti-Drew mode at that time. In his last article leading up to the draft, he DEMANDED that the Bills do whatever they had to do to secure drafting a top flight QB. Then after the draft, he criticized them for giving up too much to move up for what he thought was a fringe QB like Losman. In hind-sight he was right about their giving up too much, but the Bills had no shot at Manning/Rivers/Big Ben.

Thank you, great post,

 

Looks to me like Hodge and Sullivan nailed it.

Followed by Mayock and Kiper.

Kiper was 100% on when he questioned his ability to read defenses

I'm suprised Jaws was that far off the mark.

 

On the Bills part their scouts and coaches obviously missed the mark.

Wyche of course sounds like the main culprit and Modrak seemed clueless.

My suspicion is that Donahoe didn't do his own assessment and went on their advice, bad move, it cost him his job, and rightfully so.

 

Is Modrak still with the Bills?

I hope not, he should have been fired.

[TheKing]

The thing I get out of the Losman tradeup is that Blow missed a chance at picking up Demarcus Ware with the pick we shot over to Dallas. The pick we shot over to New England for Bledsoe I think they either Wolfork or Ty Warren. We missed with the 4th pick on Mike Williams. A team like the bills who refuse to spend to the cap & has limited resources can not miss on 1st rnd picks. I do not know who is responsible for Losman being a bust & I really do not care. The fact is he is a bust & the bills missed out on getting a good player.

 

One of the main reasons for the bills lack of success this decade is their lack of success in drafting players in the 1st round. If you look back at the last 8 drafts(since donahoe was hired):

 

2001 : Nate Clements - Not with the team anymore

2002 : Mike Williams - Not with the team anymore

2003 : Drew Bledsoe - trade away the pick. Bledsoe is no longer with the team

2004 : Lee Evans/Jp Losman : Evans was a solid pick, could of had Tommie Harris though(perfect cover 2 DT). Losman has been a bust, will no longer be with the team after this year

2005 : Traded pick for Losman - He will no longer be on the team after this season

2006 : Donte Whitner : seems like a decent pick, maybe a bit high for #8 but that is for another argument

2007 : Lynch : book is still out on him. Will need to produce more if he is to see a 2nd contract with the bills

2008 : Mckelvin ; To early to make a judgement on this pick.

 

So from 01-05 our first round picks are no longer on the team(or Losman's case will be gone after this year). Only Evans will still be with the club. 1 out 5 guys from those drafts. Not very good.

Nate Clements was a real good player.

 

There was also a DT picked in the same year with whitner. He's done so little that I can't bring his name to mind.

He's still with the Bills , they tried to trade him.

He's another disaster, just like Losman.

 

Judging from that record the Bills might be better off with a ploicy of trading out of the 1st round.

[TheKing]

Parcells didn't like him.

See, the Tuna is usually very good at assessing players, especially free agents in the pros.

The Bills should have hired him.

He rubs a lot of people the wrong way but he know his stuff.

[TheKing]

i wish him well in the CFL.

I think that's more his pace, he'll never make it in the NFL.

I'd be suprised to see an NFL team sign Losman to begin with.

[TheKing]

Flutie was/is a winner, JP is not.

Very true.

[TheKing]

How many SB's victories, does Parcells have, I think that the answer is two, and if it weren't for, heaven forbid,

wide right, he would have only one, what makes him an expert? He is way overrated.

There is no question that parcell's is an expert.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I think that's more his pace, he'll never make it in the NFL.

I'd be suprised to see an NFL team sign Losman to begin with.

 

I know Losman is a POS as a starter but have you seen some of the backup QBs out there? He'll get signed by somebody.

[TheKing]

I know Losman is a POS as a starter but have you seen some of the backup QBs out there? He'll get signed by somebody.

I have a gut feeling he won't be.

In fact as a last resort his agent might try to make a pitch to the BIlls for signing JP as a backup.

But it's clear the BIlls are done with him.

[Hanoverbills]

I think that's more his pace, he'll never make it in the NFL.

I'd be suprised to see an NFL team sign Losman to begin with.

Losman could be a good starter.All some team has to do is go with his strenghs.I brought this up before,but other teams adjusted to the Qb.Look at Chiefs and what they did with Thigpen,They adjusted they're offense with what he did in college.Also the Bears with Orton'they added plays that he had at Purdue and look what has happen to him,a better QB .

He still young and it doesn't matter what anybody says TheKing doesn't like him.In 2006 with with better talent Tom Brady Stats.61%com.pct.220.6 yrds.gm.24tds and that with 100more att.Losman 62.5%com.pct.190.7yds.gm.19 t.d.s also BradysQB rating87.9 and Losman84.9.I'm not saying Losman is Brady but his stat wasn't to bad in 2006.Yes we only had 7 wins.But we haven't been any better .We are still average,except know it isn't the QB fault.

[Orton's Arm]

Getting back to the original poster's question about what was said at the time... I remember all of this stuff like it was yesterday.

 

First the history of why the Bills selected Losman.

 

The team was coming off a very disappointing 6-10 season, a year after having gone 8-8 and having revamped the defense with acquisitions like Takeo and Adams. Despite the poor record, the defense played very well, and Travis Henry had a pretty good year too. The primary blame, then, fell on the shoulders of Bledsoe, whose skills were clearly declining and Gilbride, who had just gone out the door with Gregg. Mularkey was the new coach, Pittsburgh's former offensive coordinator who had cleaned up after Gilbride once before in Pittsburgh and was credited with having turned Tommy Maddox's career around. Repaying long time debts, Mularkey hired Sam Wyche as the new QB coach. With Bledsoe's days numbered, the team agreed that they needed to find an heir apparent, and one of Wyche's first tasks was to scout the young guys coming out of college.

 

Wyche attended Eli Manning's workout in New Orleans. After Eli was done and most of the scouts left, Wyche hung around for JP's much less pulicized workout. Wyche came away believing that JP had had the better workout that day. He felt that JP's arm was stronger and he was more athletic than Manning.

 

Heading into the draft, the QB that the team had ranked as their #1 QB was Roethlisberger. They knew that the Steelers had their sights set on him and tried to trade up ahead of the #11 spot to get him. With Big Ben gone, the Bils stayed pat at #13 and drafted Lee Evans. They had a borderline 1sr round/2nd round grade on JP, but knew that he would be gone before the 2nd round, since their intel led them to believe that both the Packers and the Rams, who were picking in the mid 20's were considering drafting him. They also saw a significant drop-off between JP and their next ranked QB. Moreover, Donahoe and Modrak looked ahead to the next year's draft, and they were not convinced that there was a 1st-round quality QB coming out in 2005 that would be ranked as highly as JP was at THAT time. Thus, they made the move to come up out of the 2nd round to draft JP. The addition of the new 1st round pick (from Dallas) cost them their 2004 2nd and 5th rounders as well as their 2005 1st rounder.

 

What was said at the time.

 

Kiper had Losman ranked as an early 2nd round pick. He saw the move by the Bills to be a slight reach, but he understood the reasoning, so he was not highly critical. He agreed with the assessment that, from a physical standpoint, JP ranked right up there with Manning/Rivers/Big Ben. However, questions about his leadership, maturity and ability to read a defense dropped his grade. Mort's focus was more on the fact that, by making the trade with the Bills, Dallas had lost out on the best running back in the draft, Steven Jackson. And RB was a great position of need for the Cowboys, who wound up taking Julius Jones with the Bills' 2nd round pick.

 

Jaws LOVED the pick. He predicted that Losman would be a much better pro than Rivers. He showed clips of JP's ability to throw the deep out, which he said was the hardest pass to throw in the NFL. He agreed that JP would be entering the league behind the other three in terms of his development but felt that he had the advantage of having Wyche, who had groomed Montana and Esiasen, as a QB coach. Hodge didn't like the pick because he felt that JP was too erratic.

 

Meanwhile, Mike Mayock was probably the most prophetic of all. He said that JP was probably the most naturally gifted QB in the draft. He predicted that there would be plays where he would do something that would make you say "Wow!" then he would turn around and do something that would make you shake your head. His success would depend upon how much a team would be able to live with his mistakes. He also reckoned that his situation may not be too bad if he had 2 or 3 years to sit behind Bledsoe.

 

And our friend Jerry Sullivan? Well, he was in his full anti-Drew mode at that time. In his last article leading up to the draft, he DEMANDED that the Bills do whatever they had to do to secure drafting a top flight QB. Then after the draft, he criticized them for giving up too much to move up for what he thought was a fringe QB like Losman. In hind-sight he was right about their giving up too much, but the Bills had no shot at Manning/Rivers/Big Ben.

Now that was a post! I can't really think of much to add, other than it looks like some people were closer to being right about Losman than others. You'd think that a former player like Jaws would have a better shot at being right than a sports writer like Sully. But I guess not, at least not in this case.

[keepthefaith]

I know Losman is a POS as a starter but have you seen some of the backup QBs out there? He'll get signed by somebody.

 

It's amazing how many people around here feel that JP has played his best ball and that he'll never do any better. After all, the Bills have such a rich history over the past decade in developing and utilizing the QB position.

 

I wouldn't count the guy out. He'll leave with incredible motivation. It'll be interesting to see where he lands and what he can do with that opportunity.