Bills' Defense

[YOOOOOO]

So you basically want just a whole new defense for it to be good.

 

 

I didnt know 1 DE/1 DT was a whole new defense.....but ok

[SwampD]

I didnt know 1 DE/1 DT was a whole new defense.....but ok

plus greer, plus crowell, plus a couple more, plus I was only joking anyway. I actually agree. With only one real pass rusher this D would be really good.

[YOOOOOO]

plus greer, plus crowell, plus a couple more, plus I was only joking anyway. I actually agree. With only one real pass rusher this D would be really good.

 

 

Good thing your joking...

[Thurman#1]

This Defense is a pass rusher opposite Schobel and a starting quality DT opposite Stroud away from being a top 5 to 10 defense in the league....

 

If we get Crowell back, and find a way to keep Greer around....add a DE&DT thru FA...plus a couple more thru the draft....

 

 

Were going to be in good shape on the defensive side of the ball....

 

 

 

I actually agree with you there. If we just get a quality pass rusher and a quality DT, we could be a Top 5 to 10 defense. But pass rushers, good ones, are rare. Very rare. Think about it ... how many guys in the NFL right now would you define as good pass rushers? Twenty? Less? Thirty, maybe? I don't think so. Right now, there are 17 guys in the league with at least 6 sacks. And I don't think 6 sacks is all that impressive at this time of year. There are eight guys with eight or more sacks, which I think is about the line for being a good sack man near the end of November. EDIT: Actually, three guys are tied for #8 in the league, so there are actually ten guys with eight sacks. But that doesn't substantially alter my point.

 

Ten guys with eight sacks. And that's with each defense having two DEs and often an LB with primary responsibilities of rushing the pass on passing downs. And remember, those ten guys didn't come into the league in one draft. They came into the league in the last eight or ten drafts. So if there are ten good sack artists in the league, that would mean that you can find about one in each draft. And we won't be picking in the top ten this year.

 

Now try to figure out how hard it is to find a really good DT.

 

And all we need is a good sack man and a good DT. And all I need is a Ferrari and a lakefront house and I'd be living pretty.

 

 

 

This defense isn't bad, I agree with those of you who think that. But defenses win championships. And this is just not a championship defense. It's an average or slightly above average defense. The only way you win a championship with a defense like that is if your offense is on par with the Greatest Show on Turf.

 

This defense needs to be upgraded. A lot.

 

Of course, the offense needs it even more.

[YOOOOOO]

I actually agree with you there. If we just get a quality pass rusher and a quality DT, we could be a Top 5 to 10 defense. But pass rushers, good ones, are rare. Very rare. Think about it ... how many guys in the NFL right now would you define as good pass rushers? Twenty? Less? Thirty, maybe? I don't think so. Right now, there are 17 guys in the league with at least 6 sacks. And I don't think 6 sacks is all that impressive at this time of year. There are eight guys with eight or more sacks, which I think is about the line for being a good sack man near the end of November. EDIT: Actually, three guys are tied for #8 in the league, so there are actually ten guys with eight sacks. But that doesn't substantially alter my point.

 

Ten guys with eight sacks. And that's with each defense having two DEs and often an LB with primary responsibilities of rushing the pass on passing downs. And remember, those ten guys didn't come into the league in one draft. They came into the league in the last eight or ten drafts. So if there are ten good sack artists in the league, that would mean that you can find about one in each draft. And we won't be picking in the top ten this year.

 

Now try to figure out how hard it is to find a really good DT.

 

And all we need is a good sack man and a good DT. And all I need is a Ferrari and a lakefront house and I'd be living pretty.

 

 

 

This defense isn't bad, I agree with those of you who think that. But defenses win championships. And this is just not a championship defense. It's an average or slightly above average defense. The only way you win a championship with a defense like that is if your offense is on par with the Greatest Show on Turf.

 

This defense needs to be upgraded. A lot.

 

Of course, the offense needs it even more.

 

 

Pass rush is not all about sacks......its about making a QB rush his throws and hitting him as he gets it off....Thats what forces turnovers....

 

I'll take a bunch of hurries and a handfull of knockdowns...

 

 

A guy that gets 5-6 sacks a season but consistently makes a QB moves his feet and puts a few licks on him thruout the game....is what we need....

 

There quite a few guys who get this down consistently...right now We dont have one....

[reddogblitz]

D has been a big disappointment at critical times. ... Additionally, that 98 yard drive given up to Cleveland Monday night, especially after they looked so good in only giving up FGs after the INTs was a big letdown.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The defense did indeed give up the 96 yard drive to the Clowns. However, I think a lot of this rests on the coaches. Up until that point in the game the defense was playing aggressive. Blitzing, fake blitzing, guys standing up in the middle of the line etc. Then on that drive, they went back to the play back, keep everything in front of you, linebackers 5 yards off the line of scrimmage defense. They didn't blitz on a single play. Whey we don't play aggressively and blitz/fake blitz on 80% of the plays with this defense, I'll never understand. Especially with a rookie QB in his second start for crying out loud.

 

The defense is fine and good enough to be make the playoffs if they could just get a little help from the offense. Against a weak defense they were only able to score 20 points and gave up 6 off turnovers. We need more than a net 14 to beat most teams. Even KC.

[freeagentqb]

they seem to play good for stretches at a time but fall apart at the end of the game, especially when it matters. The later the game, the harder it becomes for them to stop a third down play. think they become too conservative in their secondary coverages and with the blitz.

[Big Hurt]

The Good:

They didn't give up a lot of points, even the offense was giving away the ball all the time.

They were able to stop the run in some games.

 

The Bad:

Third down, could not get off the field. Giving up big plays on third and long.

No pressure, no pass rush, no sack.

Cannot play press coverage. Let the other team dink and dunk you to death.

Cannot create turnovers.

Players could not stay healthy.

[My Friends Call Me Tebucky]

Man, I didn't really think it was complicated...they don't make big plays. That's the problem.

 

They didn't have much pass rush last year (26 sacks), they're on pace for 24 this year. So that doesn't explain it.

 

They just have a bunch of guys in their defense that don't make plays, despite how much more "talented" they are than the guys that were around last year.

 

Just a comparison of some of the guys from last year and their replacements this year in terms of "big plays," the production in bold is from last year:

 

DiGiorgio: 2 sacks, INT.

Poz: 1 forced fumble

 

Wilson/ Leonard: 4 INTs, FR, 2TDs

Simpson: nothing that I remember

 

McCargo/Triplett: 3.5 sacks, 2 FF, INT

Stroud/Johnson: 3.5 sacks, FF

 

Schobel: 6.5 sacks, 5 FF

Schobel/Denney: 2 sacks

 

 

They just don't have any playmakers. Greer makes an occasional play, as do Stroud and Mitchell it seems.

 

Whitner in 2 and a half seasons: 1 sack, 1 forced fumble, 2 INTs. That's a lot of games, and not a lot of plays. Simpson doesn't make plays. Poz doesn't make plays. Ellison, Kyle Williams, Kelsay, same goes for them.

[DrFishfinder]

I'm not convinced the Bills D is as bad as we give them credit for. I think they're just overshadowed by an abysmal offense. I'm not saying they're GOOD, don't get me wrong. I just think of them as solidly average.

 

We rank 14th in points-per-game. That's respectable, if not special. 13th in yards-per-game, too. And in this whole time, we've only given up more than two TDs in a game once, in that blowout in the desert.

 

We suck at picking off passes - only 5 - but bear in mind, it helps to be facing a QB who's behind and taking risks, and our D is almost never in that position. The same goes for our humiliatingly low sack total, but we're in the top 10 in pass deflections. The coverage isn't bad.

 

We get beat by #1 WRs, but are among the league's best in terms of #2 and #3 WRs and TEs, which makes sense for a team with plenty of decent CBs but no shutdown man, and a solid corps of safeties.

 

It may not feel like it, but the Bills aren't bad at getting off the field on 3rd down. We're 10th in the league, allowing a 37% conversion rate.

 

Look, I'm not saying they're world beaters. I'm saying they're a good-enough defense for a team that had any semblance of a coherent offensive attack. And we don't have one. Give these guys a few more chances to rest, the knowledge that giving up the occasional big play won't blow it altogether for their chances to win, and they'll do their job.

The offense is having trouble staying on the field for sustained drives and by the 4th quarter, the defense is gassed and giving up 8 and 9 minute drives. Not to mention we keep having to put in backups because our defensive starters are out. I'm not convinced that Fewell is flexible enough to change things up when the defense is getting toasted, either.

[VOR]

The offense is having trouble staying on the field for sustained drives and by the 4th quarter, the defense is gassed and giving up 8 and 9 minute drives. Not to mention we keep having to put in backups because our defensive starters are out. I'm not convinced that Fewell is flexible enough to change things up when the defense is getting toasted, either.

Bingo. If the offense could sustain drives and, god forbid, score points, the defense would look great. Especially if it gets healthy again.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The lack of picks is a reflection of having no pass rush.

Of course, it is more complicated than this. Having no pass rush makes interceptions very difficult, but a more complete answer is more like the following.

 

Pressure will help the secondary by forcing the QB to make his reads quicker, etc. But, it also works the other way as well. If the secondary has good, tight coverage then that gives the front time to get to and harass the QB. Of course, the scheme matters because even if the players are good in coverage, if they are told to play off, give receivers clean releases, etc. then the front doesn't have time to get to the QB, the secondary is too loose, and the whole defense gets methodically picked apart. Finally, if the defense can't play the run or is playing from behind on the scoreboard often, then it will typically be behind on down and distance, which gives the opposition the initiative.

[BillsVet]

I like to look at where the Bills have drafted on defense these past three years:

 

7 DB's (Whitner, McKelvin, Youboty, Simpson, Corner, Wendling, Cox)

2 LB's (Posluszny, Ellison)

2 DT's (McCargo, Williams)

2 DE's (Ellis, Ah You)

 

It's easy to pick apart drafts, but taking 7 DB's in three drafts has hurt. When you consider that when Levy and Jauron took over, the Bills had Clements, Greer, Milloy, and McGee, it's hard to understand all the resources allocated toward the secondary. When they did draft a DL, it was a bust with McCargo.

 

Priorities on defense begin at DL, then LB, then secondary. We're seeing how a lack of a real pass rush affects the entire team. Spending picks on DB's is worthless without a front seven to help them.

 

What I can't comprehend is that many of the things which killed the Bills in recent years are still appearing. They still allow long drives and fail to get turnovers. Those have been problems all three years DJ's been HC. Having a C2 base defense requires you get turnovers. Unfortunately, without a pass rush that won't happen anytime soon.

[My Friends Call Me Tebucky]

I like to look at where the Bills have drafted on defense these past three years:

 

7 DB's (Whitner, McKelvin, Youboty, Simpson, Corner, Wendling, Cox)

2 LB's (Posluszny, Ellison)

2 DT's (McCargo, Williams)

2 DE's (Ellis, Ah You)

 

It's easy to pick apart drafts, but taking 7 DB's in three drafts has hurt. When you consider that when Levy and Jauron took over, the Bills had Clements, Greer, Milloy, and McGee, it's hard to understand all the resources allocated toward the secondary. When they did draft a DL, it was a bust with McCargo.

 

Priorities on defense begin at DL, then LB, then secondary. We're seeing how a lack of a real pass rush affects the entire team. Spending picks on DB's is worthless without a front seven to help them.

 

What I can't comprehend is that many of the things which killed the Bills in recent years are still appearing. They still allow long drives and fail to get turnovers. Those have been problems all three years DJ's been HC. Having a C2 base defense requires you get turnovers. Unfortunately, without a pass rush that won't happen anytime soon.

 

 

Good post- and it really makes you question the McKelvin pick. Maybe he'll end up being a pro bowler, who knows...but to take a cover 2 cornerback that high in the draft? It seems retarded to me.

 

Corners are basically interchangeable in the defense...it's about safeties. They missed (relatively) on Whitner. He's an NFL caliber player, but not a good cover 2 safety.

 

Draft a dominant lineman, or linebacker that can rush the passer...

[apuszczalowski]

Good post- and it really makes you question the McKelvin pick. Maybe he'll end up being a pro bowler, who knows...but to take a cover 2 cornerback that high in the draft? It seems retarded to me.

 

Corners are basically interchangeable in the defense...it's about safeties. They missed (relatively) on Whitner. He's an NFL caliber player, but not a good cover 2 safety.

 

Draft a dominant lineman, or linebacker that can rush the passer...

Are you kidding me? He is one ofthe best players on the defence currently, and a defensive captain, and you call that missing on a pick? maybe if you used Youbouty, or Simpson, fine, I might be able to agree, but Whitner has stepped up and became a leader, and one ofthe better players on the team, thats not a miss.

 

Taking McKelvin early is only "retarded" if it is obvious that he would be available later in the draft, at your next pick. Right now, the Bills took a guy who is supposed to be able to play a position in their defence and can be a huge upgrade on their special teams. McGee was getting to the point that his position on the team, and his age was getting to the point where he should not be out there on the field returning kicks on a regular basis, so they got one of college footballs best to replace him, and for now, be a backup at McGee's psoition too.

 

The Cover 2 is supposed to rely heavily on the secondary, and the bills completly rebuilt theres using the draft. Of those 4 players that were mentioned by Bills vet that the Bills already had, (Clements, Greer, Milloy and McGee), 2 are the starters now (and one of them only stepped it up to become a starter last year after not impressing enough previously to be anything more then a depth guy), One was looking like he was getting to the downside of his career (Milloy) and the other wanted to be the highest payed player in the league.

 

The problem has been that the Bills have also tried to fill some of the gaps on the team with some FA's that they hoped would pan out instead of just drafting everyone, and some have not workedthe way they had hoped.

 

The defence has beengood enough to make them a playoff team, but not good enough to carry the team like the way some teams have had in the past. I said it last year too, if you looked at the defence, they kept the Bills in the game for about 90% of the time, If the offence could only score a little more, then they would have looked alot different. Right now, the Bills can't be too aggressive on defence because they are affraid to make a mistake. They know that if they make a mistake, it could cost them the game cause theres no guarantee that when the offence gets the ball back, they will do anything with it. Sustaining long drives on offence is good for the defence cause it gives them time to rest, but its no good when the end result is only a FG, like most of last season. A defence that is only allowing 20-25 points a game should not be considered a weakness in the NFL, your offence should be putting up bigger numbers. The offence shouldn't rely on the Defence or Special teams to make a big play and score the points. The offence needs to get the ball intot he endzone more often and give the defence more of a lead to play with. Thats when you will see this defence look more "aggressive" and alot better cause they won't be affraid of giving up that one big play that costs them the game

[BillsVet]

They missed (relatively) on Whitner. He's an NFL caliber player, but not a good cover 2 safety.

 

MFCMT, you really sparked a crapstorm with that one.

 

All the pro-Bills we don't need a real GM front office fans will be out and about now.

 

Unfortunately, Buffalo has the worst front office in the AFCE, and probably only a step above of Oakland, Detroit, and Cincinnati.

 

What I'd like to know is how drafting a Whitner has solidified this team's ability to stop the run. DJ's build through the secondary mindset really didn't start to work until Buffalo acquired Stroud and bigger linebackers. Let them keep believing the secondary is the most important part of the defense.

 

Then again, Buffalo hasn't had a statistically high ranked pass defense since Clements was on this team. Of course after he left, they've had issues defending the pass.

[bananathumb]

Very bad. No ends, a back-up lb, a 'rookie' mlb, safeties who are injured but even when healthy slow, a good cb is is now out.

 

And apparently not much depth.

[VOR]

MFCMT, you really sparked a crapstorm with that one.

 

All the pro-Bills we don't need a real GM front office fans will be out and about now.

 

Unfortunately, Buffalo has the worst front office in the AFCE, and probably only a step above of Oakland, Detroit, and Cincinnati.

 

What I'd like to know is how drafting a Whitner has solidified this team's ability to stop the run. DJ's build through the secondary mindset really didn't start to work until Buffalo acquired Stroud and bigger linebackers. Let them keep believing the secondary is the most important part of the defense.

 

Then again, Buffalo hasn't had a statistically high ranked pass defense since Clements was on this team. Of course after he left, they've had issues defending the pass.

The 49'ers were 22nd in 2007 and are 25th this year. It's more than just Clements. I'd say that Schobel's decline/absence has more to do with it.

[Pete]

add a pass rusher and DT, resign Greer, and get back a healthy Youboty- this defense would rock!

[MDH]

The defense is pretty good, especially considering its performance during the recent spate of injuries. They play better when the coach asks them to be more aggressive, though

 

The D has been pretty good for the most part yet they have the exact same problems that Bills Ds over the past 7 or so years have had - when they have to step up at the end of a game and make a stop they cannot do it. They either allow long time consuming drives or they allow just enough points to be scored to lose games.