$20,000 for a private jet plane for one day?

[John from Riverside]

When a 1st class plane ticket costs $800?

 

I am not fully understanding all of this but on the outside looking in I dont want the workers to suffer (that poor schmoe like me who just trudges off to work every day to feed his family) and i also dont want to help these private jet flying execs who will still be rich no matter what.

 

I dont know what the solution is here.

[MattyT]

Wait till the airlines hit the govt up for a bailout. They've gotta be next, right?

 

Free money. Everybody get in line. No pushing.

[DC Tom]

Wait till the airlines hit the govt up for a bailout. They've gotta be next, right?

 

Free money. Everybody get in line. No pushing.

 

Airlines aren't doing that badly right now, actually.

 

Probably because they've already been bailed out (in 2002), and since reorganized.

[GG]

Airlines aren't doing that badly right now, actually.

 

Probably because they've already been bailed out (in 2002), and since reorganized.

 

Don't forget the role that bankruptcies played in those reorganizations. Amazing how passengers never gave a thought to flying on an airline that was bankrupt, unless the airline stopped flying.

[DC Tom]

Don't forget the role that bankruptcies played in those reorganizations. Amazing how passengers never gave a thought to flying on an airline that was bankrupt, unless the airline stopped flying.

 

I didn't forget (you knew that, of course).

 

But don't forget the role that the bailout played in getting the airlines over the post-9/11 hump and into a better economy where bankruptcy was a more realistic option.

[Johnny Coli]

Don't forget the role that bankruptcies played in those reorganizations. Amazing how passengers never gave a thought to flying on an airline that was bankrupt, unless the airline stopped flying.

Don't forget that an airline ticket didn't cost 20 grand and you didn't have to bring it in for an oil change every 5000 miles, or routine maintenance, or need to worry about getting parts for it, or reselling it.

[molson_golden2002]

Don't forget that an airline ticket didn't cost 20 grand and you didn't have to bring it in for an oil change every 5000 miles, or routine maintanence, or need to worry about getting parts for it, or reselling it.

That's the difference. Who the hell would buy a car from a company in banckruptcy???

[bills_fan]

Don't forget that an airline ticket didn't cost 20 grand and you didn't have to bring it in for an oil change every 5000 miles, or routine maintenance, or need to worry about getting parts for it, or reselling it.

 

 

Which is why the US Govt would have to provide debtor in possession financing for the bankruptcy to work at all.

[GG]

I didn't forget (you knew that, of course).

 

But don't forget the role that the bailout played in getting the airlines over the post-9/11 hump and into a better economy where bankruptcy was a more realistic option.

 

You could argue that it just speeded up the timing. Airline bankruptcies & consolidation was inevitable. 9/11 just speeded up the process, while the bailout was window dressing. Autos should take a lessoon - the bailout didn't help as much as bankriptcy to fix the industry for the future. Although a few more carriers could stand to consolidate.

[GG]

Don't forget that an airline ticket didn't cost 20 grand and you didn't have to bring it in for an oil change every 5000 miles, or routine maintenance, or need to worry about getting parts for it, or reselling it.

 

The aftermarket has proven to be very adept in meeting those needs, much in the same way you can get service & parts for virtually every car that has ever been produced. I don't recall this outcry when GM killed Oldsmobile or Chrysler did with Plymouth. Your fear would only be realized in a full liquidation. But the prospect of GM liquidating completely is as remote as the plagues descending before the San Diego game.

[pBills]

When a 1st class plane ticket costs $800?

 

I am not fully understanding all of this but on the outside looking in I dont want the workers to suffer (that poor schmoe like me who just trudges off to work every day to feed his family) and i also dont want to help these private jet flying execs who will still be rich no matter what.

 

I dont know what the solution is here.

 

 

 

Personally I could care less about the private jet ride into DC. $20,000 is nothing compared to what AIG wasted.

[GG]

Personally I could care less about the private jet ride into DC. $20,000 is nothing compared to what AIG wasted.

 

And which waste in particular are you referring to?

[pBills]

And which waste in particular are you referring to?

 

 

Their immediate retreat

[DC Tom]

Their immediate retreat

 

Which was probably already paid for in advance. I doubt they would have saved anything cancelling it.

[Johnny Coli]

The aftermarket has proven to be very adept in meeting those needs, much in the same way you can get service & parts for virtually every car that has ever been produced. I don't recall this outcry when GM killed Oldsmobile or Chrysler did with Plymouth. Your fear would only be realized in a full liquidation. But the prospect of GM liquidating completely is as remote as the plagues descending before the San Diego game.

Why even allow for the remote possibility if you could stave off both bankruptcy and possible liquidation with a loan? The money is already in the 700B package sent to the Treasury. Attach major restrictions as to how that money can be used. We're not talking about some textile company making placemats in Maine. Even the slimmest possiblity that one of the Big Three goes down in this economic environment would seem to me at least enough to take these measures. You seem to think the risk isn't there. I do.

[pBills]

Which was probably already paid for in advance. I doubt they would have saved anything cancelling it.

 

 

If it was bought and paid for in advance or even if they decided to do it after they received their initial bail out... either way it was a waste and should have opened some eyes. No way in justifying it.

[pBills]

Why even allow for the remote possibility if you could stave off both bankruptcy and possible liquidation with a loan? The money is already in the 700B package sent to the Treasury. Attach major restrictions as to how that money can be used. We're not talking about some textile company making placemats in Maine. Even the slimmest possiblity that one of the Big Three goes down in this economic environment would seem to me at least enough to take these measures. You seem to think the risk isn't there. I do.

 

 

 

The risk is huge. Even Toyota has come out and said that if the big 3 go down it will affect them as well. Suppliers will be hurt or go into bankruptcy, etc., etc. And that's on top of the millions out of work.

[GG]

Why even allow for the remote possibility if you could stave off both bankruptcy and possible liquidation with a loan? The money is already in the 700B package sent to the Treasury. Attach major restrictions as to how that money can be used. We're not talking about some textile company making placemats in Maine. Even the slimmest possiblity that one of the Big Three goes down in this economic environment would seem to me at least enough to take these measures. You seem to think the risk isn't there. I do.

 

I take it you haven't been reading the issues surrounding the Big 3. Their problem is not a liquidity crisis. Their problem is father time catching up to an antiquated business model, whose fix has been ignored by all parties for over a generation. A $25 bn cash infusion now will not solve the core issues of legacy costs, inflexible labor arrangements, too vast of a dealer network and the inability to bring quality products to the market faster than their competitors. A bankruptcy filing should help fix those, and you could use gov't money in bankruptcy, because you won't be able to get enough private capital for DIP financing.

 

But to throw $25 bn before restructuring is just widening the sinkhole.

[GG]

If it was bought and paid for in advance or even if they decided to do it after they received their initial bail out... either way it was a waste and should have opened some eyes. No way in justifying it.

 

Was this a retreat for AIG fat cats, or for independent agents who do business with AIG?

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

I did like the comment paraphrased here " So why didnt you bozzos at least downgrade to first class or jet pool to get here. You come begging for money and you fly down in your seperate corporate jets probably so ya can get back in time for lunch in the swank dining room"

 

I hear all these comments about how the car companies need to restructure and I am sure the executives are just thinking about how labor will have to give in on health insurance, wages and pensions.

 

If I was one of the congressman I would have said ok guys what did all your execs make last year in bonuses and options ( not salaries ). first give it all back to your companies than we can start talking.