CoachChuckDickerson Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 FROM AN EMAIL I RECEIVED THIS MORNING The war in Iraq may decide the 2004 presidential race. But, even at this late date, how well informed are voters? A new survey shows that, for many, the answer is: not very. The poll for the non-partisan Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) reveals that a vast majority of President Bush's backers continue to believe, contrary to evidence, that Saddam Hussein had strong links to al-Qaeda and possessed WMDs or a major program for making them. Equally interesting, the new survey finds that if the Bush supporters knew (or accepted) the truth, some of them might feel quite differently about the war. Asked whether we should have gone to war if Iraq was not making WMD or providing strong support to al-Qaeda, 58% of Bush supporters said no. The poll was conducted in September and October, with three samples of 968, 798, and 959 respondents. Margins of error were 3.2 to 4%. PIPA is affiliated with the Center on Policy Attitudes and the Center for International and Security Studies at the University of Maryland. Here are the details: * On WMDs: Even after the final report of chief weapons inspector Charles Duelfer saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD or a major program for developing them. And 57% also believe, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points. * On the al-Qaeda link: 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al-Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has actually been found. Plus, 55% believe, again incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. One in five believe Iraq was directly involved with the 9/11 attacks. Large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions. "One of the reasons that Bush supporters have these beliefs," Steven Kull, director of PIPA, asserts in a report, "is that they perceive the Bush administration confirming them. Interestingly, this is one point on which Bush and Kerry supporters agree." Indeed, 82% of Bush supporters perceive the administration as saying that Iraq had WMD or a major WMD program. Likewise, 75% say that the Bush administration claims Iraq was providing substantial support to al-Qaeda. But what's the deeper explanation for all this? Kull seems to let the media off the hook and direct attention to the receiver rather than the messenger. "To support the president and to accept that he took the U.S. to war based on mistaken assumptions," he explains, "likely creates substantial cognitive dissonance, and leads Bush supporters to suppress awareness of unsettling information about prewar Iraq." If true, this is pretty much a full-court suppress. Just 31% of Bush supporters recognize that the majority of people in the world oppose the United States having gone to war with Iraq. Fifty-one percent incorrectly assume Bush favors U.S. participation in the Kyoto treaty. Fifty-three percent believe he supports the International Criminal Court, despite his attack on that body in the recent debates. "The roots of the Bush supporters' resistance to information," according to Kull, "very likely lie in the traumatic experience of 9/11 and equally in the near pitch-perfect leadership that President Bush showed in its immediate wake. "This appears to have created a powerful bond between Bush and his supporters, and an idealized image of the President that makes it difficult for his supporters to imagine that he could have made incorrect judgments before the war, that world public opinion could be critical of his policies or that the President could hold foreign policy positions that are at odds with his supporters." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich in Ohio Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 hey Tom, would you call a thread titled "The Willfully Ignorant" appropriate? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 FROM AN EMAIL I RECEIVED THIS MORNING ... 86355[/snapback] And your point would be what? There are "Willfully Ignorant" supporters of both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 And your point would be what? There are "Willfully Ignorant" supporters of both sides. 86375[/snapback] You said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted October 26, 2004 Author Share Posted October 26, 2004 hey Tom, would you call a thread titled "The Willfully Ignorant" appropriate? Just curious. 86367[/snapback] Teacher! Teacher! Look what Coach is doing!! Did you get beat up a lot as a kid Rich? In response, the "willfully ignorant" is a common term in reference to people who vote and support a candidate when they have no factual platform to base their vote and support on. Both parties have them. The Bush campaign just works harder at misleading them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 The Bush campaign just works harder at misleading them. 86425[/snapback] That, of course, is your OPINION. There is plenty of evidence of sheep herding on both sides. To say anything different is nothing more than a pissing contest for the "willfully ignorant". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 So Kerry's Senate record is misleading? Right. I have to go P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 The Bush campaign just works harder at misleading them. 86425[/snapback] Sure they do. What was that about willfully ignorant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich in Ohio Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Teacher! Teacher! Look what Coach is doing!! Did you get beat up a lot as a kid Rich? In response, the "willfully ignorant" is a common term in reference to people who vote and support a candidate when they have no factual platform to base their vote and support on. Both parties have them. The Bush campaign just works harder at misleading them. 86425[/snapback] No not really, i had a pretty normal childhood. But thank you for asking. Actually the reason I am asking is becasue I have had a number of threads of mine taken off that had no such title. had nothing to do with the content. Anyway, still looking for an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wham Rocks Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Saddam didn't have WMD? Saddam didn't have connections to al Qaeda? LOL! Yeah right! He had 'em both regardless of what the liberal media tells us. Saddam was going to be the next Hitler, but luckily George W. Bush had the foresight to take him down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckner's Glove Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 This reminds me of Bill O'Reilly's "Stoned Slackers" comment when referring to John Stuart's base audience. Stuart rebutts the comment with a statistic showing that his viewers have a higher level of eduacation, on average, than do O'Reilly's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 This reminds me of Bill O'Reilly's "Stoned Slackers" comment when referring to John Stuart's base audience. Stuart rebutts the comment with a statistic showing that his viewers have a higher level of eduacation, on average, than do O'Reilly's. 86557[/snapback] Tell me you don't have a college degree. Please? Education does not equal intelligence and never will. O'Reilly was way off in his criticism of Stewart. Of course, he's also an arrogant fuss budget who is a pretty easy target for J.S. and his merry band. The "Daily Show" is hilarious and very well done. I didn't think they'd survive losing Kilborn but they have instead blossomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 This reminds me of Bill O'Reilly's "Stoned Slackers" comment when referring to John Stuart's base audience. Stuart rebutts the comment with a statistic showing that his viewers have a higher level of eduacation, on average, than do O'Reilly's. 86557[/snapback] The O'Reilly's, Coulter's and Limbaugh's would have everyone believe that the youth are all "stoned", stupid or disinterested. They couldn't be farther from the truth. Next Tuesday will be a rude awakening for those on the right who look at the polls thinking their boy will win in a cake-walk. The kids won't be throwing rocks this time, they'll be pulling voting booth levers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckner's Glove Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Tell me you don't have a college degree. Please? Education does not equal intelligence and never will. O'Reilly was way off in his criticism of Stewart. Of course, he's also an arrogant fuss budget who is a pretty easy target for J.S. and his merry band. The "Daily Show" is hilarious and very well done. I didn't think they'd survive losing Kilborn but they have instead blossomed. 86569[/snapback] BS in Computer Science and I'm working on my MBA. Still sitting on the fence AD, or are you finally ready to admit you love G-Dub??? I'm sure the entire state of Alaska awaits your endorsement with bated breath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 BS in Computer Science and I'm working on my MBA. Still sitting on the fence AD, or are you finally ready to admit you love G-Dub??? I'm sure the entire state of Alaska awaits your endorsement with bated breath! 86584[/snapback] if you continue to work hard you will then attain a MBA just as our President did, is that not something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 BS in Computer Science and I'm working on my MBA. Still sitting on the fence AD, or are you finally ready to admit you love G-Dub??? I'm sure the entire state of Alaska awaits your endorsement with bated breath! 86584[/snapback] The state of Alaska will go to the President by at least 10 points and maybe by as much as 20. Definately not a swing state. I've never been on the fence - I'm not voting for either of these two idiots. That way as we continue down the road toward inevitable ruin, my conscience will be clear. More proof that education doesn't equal intelligence, as if we needed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 You think the Bush supporters are ignorant? Two nights ago I had dinner with a Kerry supporter. She wasn't 100% sold on Kerry, but was one of those "Don't care for Bush, so I'll support Kerry" people. As the conversation continued, you could tell she was completely uninformed. A total Hot Pockets mentality that runs rampant through our country. It got to the point where I had to pull out the verbal Crayolas to help her understand some things she "thought" she understood. Ultimately, the conversation went like this: "So did you know that Kerry served in Viet Nam?" "Absolutely." "Did you know Kerry served 19 years in the Senate?" "No," she said with something of a surprise in her voice. Then she kinda gazed into space for a second and said, "Holy crap! He really did?" Real braintrust supporting that Kerry guy. Just a bunch of Mensa's. Sometimes being willfully ignorant is betting than being just plain ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 You think the Bush supporters are ignorant? Two nights ago I had dinner with a Kerry supporter. She wasn't 100% sold on Kerry, but was one of those "Don't care for Bush, so I'll support Kerry" people. As the conversation continued, you could tell she was completely uninformed. A total Hot Pockets mentality that runs rampant through our country. It got to the point where I had to pull out the verbal Crayolas to help her understand some things she "thought" she understood. Ultimately, the conversation went like this: "So did you know that Kerry served in Viet Nam?" "Absolutely." "Did you know Kerry served 19 years in the Senate?" "No," she said with something of a surprise in her voice. Then she kinda gazed into space for a second and said, "Holy crap! He really did?" Real braintrust supporting that Kerry guy. Just a bunch of Mensa's. Sometimes being willfully ignorant is betting than being just plain ignorant. 86627[/snapback] Sean Hannity regularly does "man on the street" type stuff on his radio show that shows how unbelievably ignorant some John Kerry supporters are. I have no doubt the same exists on the other side, as we have a sampling of proof here. It shouldn't come as a surprise with the government tentacles so deep in "education". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckner's Glove Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 if you continue to work hard you will then attain a MBA just as our President did, is that not something.... 86606[/snapback] The differences are that MY Daddy didn't grease any palms or pull any strings to get me in, I'm paying for it myself, it won't just be for show, and when I'm done I'll be able to string two coherent sentences together without sounding like English is a second language. Other than that and my technical background, Dubya and I will have something in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckner's Glove Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Sean Hannity regularly does "man on the street" type stuff on his radio show that shows how unbelievably ignorant some John Kerry supporters are. I have no doubt the same exists on the other side, as we have a sampling of proof here. It shouldn't come as a surprise with the government tentacles so deep in "education". 86634[/snapback] Exactly, there are uninformed voters on both sides with strong opinions. Statistically, however, Kerry supporters are more educated. I think the religious right truly swings this in favor of the Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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