AUTO BAILOUT?

[ExiledInIllinois]

I get your point. I think of it as the "Single Axle Theory." It goes like this: Japanese cars suck and American cars kick ass and it's all some big conspiracy of Japanese car makers not honoring warranties and Consumer Reports is in on it." Somehow all of this totally fools the entire marketplace except you and 3 other people "in the know." Did I miss anything?

 

Whatever wise-ass. Just make sure you change your oil in the Toyota... And if you get lax and are not spot on at 3,000k every change, just don't tear the engine apart and look in there... You are on your own... Dump it on somebody else!

 

Like I said... Let the American auto makers stop making consumer products...

 

[KD in CA]

Just make sure you change your oil in the Toyota...

 

Uh....ok.

 

 

 

"Single Axle Theory"

[ExiledInIllinois]

Uh....ok.

 

 

 

"Single Axle Theory"

 

Nice context... You forgot every 3k... Don't go a mile over and have documentation!

 

No engine on the planet should sludge at that low of a milelage each change.

 

Did they ever mention this problem in Consumer Reports? Especially from 1997 to 2002? I don't know, but I hope so!

 

This is a Sludge Poem for all:

 

There once was a man

Whose name was Jim Press

He was Toyota's CEO

And he was under much stress.

 

Consumers were angry

They were stomping their feet

Jim Press and Toyota

Were feeling the heat.

 

No one to turn to

Not even his mom

Hundreds of posts

On ripoffreport.com

 

Jim Press called his boss

He said 'what should I do?'

Geraldo and Dateline are looking for you.

 

His boss said 'no problem'

It's really a no- brainer

Just give all our Lawyers

A big fat retainer.

 

Jim Press said O.K.

He did as he said

Then he made a stiff drink

And tried to go to bed.

 

Toyota's problems are real

No longer a joke

A company like their engines

Always blowing blue smoke.

 

My poem is over

So you be the judge

Is it the engines or the company

That's infected with SLUDGE?

 

 

PS Go to www.9news.com and type in the name ORNELAS and search the story that made the Front Page of the Denver Post on 5-19-2005 and WATCH the video that made the 10 o'clock News on the #1 most watched News Channel- 9News. 9News cares!

 

Karl

Denver, Colorado

U.S.A.

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Maybe Dr Pepper learned a thing or two from Toyota?

 

RipOffReport: Auto Manus

 

RipOffReport: Toyota Sludge Report

 

I own a 2002 Toyota Tundra with about 76,000 mi with oil changed according to Toyota recommended miles & time intervals. Found eveidence of sludge in engine. Took to dealer who said that is my problem because I didn't change oil frequently enough but when I told him that I change my oil according to Toyota recommended miles & time intervals .. he tells me that my truck is not included in the settlement. I notified Toyota on 11/14/07.

 

Sam

Chandler, Arizona

U.S.A.

 

Check Here For Service Bulletins (much easier to hide)... Don't Confuse With Recalls

 

 

 

Gotta admit... They know how to keep a good thing business running. If this was one of the Domestic Big 3... You bet everybody in the world would have been blaming the lazy worker and pension queens out there.

 

[KD in CA]

Nice context... You forgot every 3k... Don't go a mile over and have documentation!

 

No engine on the planet should sludge at that low of a milelage each change.

 

Did they ever mention this problem in Consumer Reports? Especially from 1997 to 2002? I don't know, but I hope so!

 

 

*Yawn*

 

I guess that explains why I've never had an engine issue on any of the 5 Japanese cars I've owned. Any more stupid crap you want to make up in a sad effort to pander to the union nitwits that are driving the Big 3 into the ground?

[ExiledInIllinois]

*Yawn*

 

I guess that explains why I've never had an engine issue on any of the 5 Japanese cars I've owned. Any more stupid crap you want to make up in a sad effort to pander to the union nitwits that are driving the Big 3 into the ground?

 

x2 *Yawn*... Never had a problem with the 4 Americans I have owned... No major warranty work or beyond.

 

So what is your point?

 

The Jap products are the Pats* of the league... Consumer Reports darlings... Of course you never heard of Toyota's sham of an engine they were building... They were doing a hell of a job. IT would have been all over Consumer Reports if it were Ford.

 

Conspiracy... Probably not... When the Big 3 Domestic go under... Believe me, there will be no American cars from the 1970's and 1980's to hide under anymore.

 

All I am saying is be objectionable... I am not saying "do not buy an import"... They are very good machines... But, they are no different then their contemporary domestics... Heck, most are the same if not rebadged. I can list the models that are exact duplicates if you want?

[ExiledInIllinois]

Back to the subject... Sorta?

 

Does the Japanese gov't subsidize their automobile industry?

 

AmericasAutoMakersInCompetitionWithOtherGovernments

[pBills]

*Yawn*

 

I guess that explains why I've never had an engine issue on any of the 5 Japanese cars I've owned. Any more stupid crap you want to make up in a sad effort to pander to the union nitwits that are driving the Big 3 into the ground?

 

 

Man you are the best. Anytime anyone has something to say that differs from your opinion. They are making up stupid things and they are wrong. Always right huh?

[KD in CA]

Man you are the best. Anytime anyone has something to say that differs from your opinion. They are making up stupid things and they are wrong. Always right huh?

 

Oh please....EasilyExcitableinIllinois digs up some blog entries and that's supposed to provide the basis of evidence for his claim that all Japanese cars "sludge" up and are inferior to US automakers? At least you've provided some basis for your arguments, as much as I think they ring hollow.

[Fan in Chicago]

Another article supporting bankruptcy instead of a bail-out. All concerns are addressed here (note the author is a professor of finance):

[tennesseeboy]

I bought American cars exclusively up until 1994. I had a Crown Victoria that suffered from "paint peel". There were lots like me and the dealer and company refused to deal with it. I sent the president of the company a letter pointing out that between me and my children since 1966 (a 1960 merc monterey) and then we had only bought American and that constituted a total of 14 new and used vehicles. Since then I have bought 7 vehicles my kids have bought 5 none of which are American made. I'm happy with my Hyundai Sonata right now, daughter loves her Audi and son loves his Honda Pilot and BMW Z3 (I guess that BMW is now American?). You provide a crappy product or don't follow up on your obligations you lose customers. DUH.

 

You want my money don't go to the govt. for it. Offer me a quality vehicle and a commitment to service.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Oh please....EasilyExcitableinIllinois digs up some blog entries and that's supposed to provide the basis of evidence for his claim that all Japanese cars "sludge" up and are inferior to US automakers? At least you've provided some basis for your arguments, as much as I think they ring hollow.

 

Settle down... I am not killing your puppy.

 

Never said that. Just saying that a lot of cars are on par with each other... Domestic or import... Most are the same in that they share many parts and other elements... Even some captive imports are identical.

 

It is all about brand... Toyota, Honda, and Nissan really branded well... While others struggle.

 

Look at KIA and their name... You lose value on name alone.

 

It is all about rep and confidence in this game... And the domestics are still trying to live down what they did to to their brands in the 1970's and 1980's.

 

Then their is the old argument about "Eskimos don't buy refrigerators."

 

You seem to be easily excitable... With your assumptions that I think that all domestic cars are better. You KD are going to buy what you want to buy... That is up to you. I can't sway you, I don't want to you. All I want to do is make a point that people are getting duped if they don't look at the whole equation and see it for what it is worth.

 

There is no reason I wouldn't buy an import again... Of course I am going to weigh the facts and look at any new purchase with an objective eye. That is not what people have been doing when they look at one side of the equation.

 

Again... It is all about brand and how a company built that brand. If a company gets behind the 8-Ball with thier brand, it is very tough to straighten it out. The American car companies really shot themselves in the foot during that abysmal period of cars from the mid 1970's to late 1980's.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I bought American cars exclusively up until 1994. I had a Crown Victoria that suffered from "paint peel". There were lots like me and the dealer and company refused to deal with it. I sent the president of the company a letter pointing out that between me and my children since 1966 (a 1960 merc monterey) and then we had only bought American and that constituted a total of 14 new and used vehicles. Since then I have bought 7 vehicles my kids have bought 5 none of which are American made. I'm happy with my Hyundai Sonata right now, daughter loves her Audi and son loves his Honda Pilot and BMW Z3 (I guess that BMW is now American?). You provide a crappy product or don't follow up on your obligations you lose customers. DUH.

 

You want my money don't go to the govt. for it. Offer me a quality vehicle and a commitment to service.

 

Exactly. This is the point I am trying to make... They lost a customer for life with you, even know things are better. Talk to Cincy about that "paint peel" and the galvan process they were using back then.

 

And Crown Vics/Grand Marq's... They still pump out that rear-wheel/old man car... That is a throw back to a different time. Man you really modernized your taste since!

 

I am the opposite... I bought imports all through the time you bought domestic... I have been back to American because I seen the quailty change... I now look at things not from the past, but with an objective eye when I purchase a vehicle.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Back on topic. It is NOT a level playing field and the products have shown for it in the past. Amazing that American unsubsidized industry has narrowed the gap to this point...

 

The Japanese run to the gov't for aid in providing a quality vehicle.

 

Somebody please dispute that the Japanese gov't helps their automakers with subsidies.

 

Again... How can one business compete with a gov't?

[John Adams]

SNL is in on the conspiracy too. The Japanese control our media now?

 

http://djkonservo.wordpress.com/2008/11/24...o-bailout-skit/

[ExiledInIllinois]

SNL is in on the conspiracy too. The Japanese control our media now?

 

http://djkonservo.wordpress.com/2008/11/24...o-bailout-skit/

 

You still haven't answered the question... Do the Japanese subsidize their auto industry?

 

If that is the case... Are the one's that buy these subsidized automobiles tacitly supporting some sort of socialist agenda?

 

But... Seriously, keep dodging the issue. If the Japanese gov't subsidizes their industry... Why is it wrong for the US?

 

Again IMO, the US auto industry still is doing a hell of a job just to compete against a full "first world" gov't.

 

It is one thing when workers have to compete against low wages... Now American workers are expected to compete against full gov'ts??

 

Nothing like being two-faced... Keep buying your gov't funded "rice-burners" while the American industry has to play with one arm tied behind their back.

 

Yep, it is all one big conspiracy!

 

 

Now don’t get me wrong, I know that U.S. automakers welcome competition from Japanese companies and other international competitors. I believe that competition in a free and fair environment is good for consumers, good for innovation, and good for creating ever safer and more fuel-efficient cars. However, the U.S. government continues to passively accept subsidized imported vehicles from Japanese automakers who are not competing fairly because their government effectively subsidizes its auto industry through the use of an artificially low yen. This policy has led to the skyrocketing levels of auto exports to the U.S. that harm the economy and cost American jobs by giving Japanese automakers an unfair and unearned advantage over American automakers.

 

The artificially low yen has helped fuel our trade deficit with Japan, which hurts the U.S. economy and gives Japanese automakers an unfair advantage over American automakers. Nearly two-thirds of that deficit, or $56 billion out of a total $88 billion, is exclusively a result of Japanese auto products.

 

This issue is not trivial or just a technicality. The impact of an artificially low yen on the automotive sector is a major competitive factor in the whole automotive industry: The misaligned yen gives the average imported Japanese car a huge windfall cost advantage over U.S. automakers and other competitors in the market. This ‘yen effect’ also crosses over to Japanese vehicles made in the U.S. because of the high level of subsidized imported auto parts used in their U.S. plants.

 

A few facts:

 

With a yen valued at 118 to the dollar, Japanese automakers enjoy an average windfall $4,000 cost advantage per vehicle more than they would if the yen traded at its true value. The overall subsidy Japanese automakers gain for the 2.2 million vehicles they import totaled $8.8 billion in 2006.

The total yen subsidy provided to Japanese automakers in 2006 was $13.4 billion – $8.8 billion for car & truck exports to the U.S. and $ 4.6 billion for imported parts used in American-made Japanese cars.

More than half (52%) of all automobiles manufactured in Japan were designated for export in 2006, exceeding 50% for the first time in 19 years. In fact, even as demand within Japan for new autos is declining, Japanese companies are adding production capacity to Japan-based facilities, reactivating assembly lines, adding workers and postponing planned factory closures as they move to export ever greater numbers of vehicles.

It is time for U.S. policy to place the needs and survival of its own manufacturing sector first. To do so will require the U.S. to demand that the Japanese allow the yen to regain its undistorted value. Japan must be pressed to bring its currency into alignment and trim its excessive currency reserves.

[John Adams]

It's taken you 3 threads and 11 pages in this thread to make this argument. Japan keeps its yen low to encourage exports (being a huge exporter). The US has in the past kept its dollar high for many reasons (not the least of which is that it's a huge importer).

 

You should have included that Japanese culture takes better care of its elderly so they don't need excessive pensions. Also that they have a national health care plan that doesn't cripple the Unions. Blah blah blah. Oh wait I forgot: maybe they pay higher taxes too. That must cut the other way.

 

When it comes down to it, every country has some political advantage. The market advantage, however, has been tilted hugely in favor of Japan. Those automakers make better cars. I've cited objective evidence of that. In return, you cite a hack website.

 

When I have my first Japanese car problem, I'll call you. Been 20(!) years since I went Japanese and I haven't had any problems yet--nor has my wife. Some of my Japanese cars were made here; some in Japan. All the cars have been flawless and several were used when we bought them so they were into their 13th year before we gave them away. I'm sure my first problem is coming soon.

[ExiledInIllinois]

It's taken you 3 threads and 11 pages in this thread to make this argument. Japan keeps its yen low to encourage exports (being a huge exporter). The US has in the past kept its dollar high for many reasons (not the least of which is that it's a huge importer).

 

You should have included that Japanese culture takes better care of its elderly so they don't need excessive pensions. Also that they have a national health care plan that doesn't cripple the Unions. Blah blah blah. Oh wait I forgot: maybe they pay higher taxes too. That must cut the other way.

 

When it comes down to it, every country has some political advantage. The market advantage, however, has been tilted hugely in favor of Japan. Those automakers make better cars. I've cited objective evidence of that. In return, you cite a hack website.

 

When I have my first Japanese car problem, I'll call you. Been 20(!) years since I went Japanese and I haven't had any problems yet--nor has my wife. Some of my Japanese cars were made here; some in Japan. All the cars have been flawless and several were used when we bought them so they were into their 13th year before we gave them away. I'm sure my first problem is coming soon.

 

 

Same here... I will call you when I have an American car with a problem, they have been flawless... I have been owning them on and off as long as you. What's you point?

 

See... I am actually objective... I have owned both (American and import) over the span and can make a REAL WORLD/HAND'S ON judgement.

[John Adams]

See... I am actually objective... I have owned both (American and import) over the span and can make a REAL WORLD/HAND'S ON judgement.

 

You think I haven't owned American cars?

 

I owned 3. 1 was good for 8 years until the tranny went. The other 2 sucked. If you add in all of my dad's experiences with American cars (he's a loyalist), I could write a book on US car problems. It's how I learned how to fix cars. 18 years of roadside fixes--at least once I moved out, all I had to do is pick him up when he broke down.

[ExiledInIllinois]

You think I haven't owned American cars?

 

I owned 3. 1 was good for 8 years until the tranny went. The other 2 sucked. If you add in all of my dad's experiences with American cars (he's a loyalist), I could write a book on US car problems. It's how I learned how to fix cars. 18 years of roadside fixes--at least once I moved out, all I had to do is pick him up when he broke down.

 

I assume at least some of these 3 have been purchased recently in the last 10 years? I am not trying to get you to switch by any means. I am just trying to get you to admit that the American automakers are NOT making cars like they used to. Yet, you are judging them from what happened to you in the past. The sad part about the American automakers is that they lost customers for life and the brands have been severely tarnished. How do you think they will resurrect those brands if people like you keep on spewing the same crap from 20 or more years ago? That is not objective is it? You just don't know. All you can at this point is tell me about people you know that have bought Amercian RECENTLY and have had problems or go by what you read in Consumer Reports. I can tell you the same about people who have bought foreign and have problems... Both of us on the other hand have been very lucky with the purchases that we have made recently. It is a wash.

 

You know what one of the guys at work who is also a mechanic does? He totally swears by Toyota. Yep, totally swears by Toyota. He buys older Toyota's that have blown engines... Usually for around 500 bucks. His latest project is a great looking 2003 Echo, bought it from a lady up in Michigan... Had a busted camshaft... dealer wanted over 3k for a new motor... He then rebuilds the motor and sells it for what he can get, usually many 1,000s more than he bought it for... The unsuspecting sap he sells them to thinks he is getting a great deal on a used "Toyota."

 

It is all about the brand baby! And for an added measure, change your oil early at 2,500k and don't use dino oil!