The Dean Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I would agree with this strategy. The problem is that it requires a significant extended deployment. And once you come upon a speedboat attacking a ship and it breaks off, what do you do? Sink it and kill those on board? I don't think that would be popular with the left. What is this "left" you so casually talk about? Will any sort of violence against others piss some people off? Of course. But, if you do things correctly, and attack a legitimate problem and catch (or kill in the process) the actual perpetrators, most people are going to understand...and at least you'll be able to sleep at night knowing you did it the right way. And, once again (this applies to the stuff below, too) I don't think this should be a US effort...or even a US-lead effort, unless there are US ships and citizens involved. I have no issue with the US helping, advising, etc, though. Just out of curiosity, aren't you old enough to remember the Bush/Clinton intervention in Somalia, 1991/2? The situation is not very different. A government only in name, unable to control the warlords, the UN sent a force, and got its ass kicked by thugs with machine guns. But what the heck, this time it will be different. Yes, I am 51, and remember it well. But, I don't believe that, because something didn't work once, you never to anything remotely related to it, again. I think you learn from your mistakes, and do a better job, next time. Also, see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 P.S. Buffalo and Boston in a wild one 4-3 Buffalo with 7 minutes to go in first. Anyone for street hockey. I know... WTF is up with BFLO? They go 3-1 and have BOS comeback a minute later... 3-2... Then 4-2 on a second TV goal (PPG)... Then I go take a crap (no pun intended and sorry to gross you out )... It is 4-3 a minute later... Same old Sabres! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomer860 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 What is this "left" you so casually talk about? Will any sort of violence against others piss some people off? Of course. But, if you do things correctly, and attack a legitimate problem and catch (or kill in the process) the actual perpetrators, most people are going to understand...and at least you'll be able to sleep at night knowing you did it the right way. And, once again (this applies to the stuff below, too) I don't think this should be a US effort...or even a US-lead effort, unless there are US ships and citizens involved. I have no issue with the US helping, advising, etc, though. Yes, I am 51, and remember it well. But, I don't believe that, because something didn't work once, you never to anything remotely related to it, again. I think you learn from your mistakes, and do a better job, next time. Also, see above. This country has never learned form its mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Seriously...is the world helpless against these guys? I know absolutely nothing about shipping, but how can these small crafts assume control of larger ships? arent the crews of these ships armed? Not looking to start an argument, so calm down Elegant Idiot and NozzleNUT...just trying to understand. No. The merchant marine fleet is essentially unarmed. I respectfully disagree with your premise that we should do something in this case. The Saudis own the cargo. Let them build their own navy and police the high seas on their own behalf. We and they (the Saudis) ostensibly fought the "war on terror" "over there" so we each wouldn't fight it on our own soil. Enough's enough. They're a spineless bunch of ingrates like the Kuwaitis who wouldn't take up arms to defend their own selves, wives, families and country. They'd rather buy off the bad guys or pay for the service of being rid of them - which is much as they value women - like a pack of cigarettes. This is their MO and they're repeating it now by negotiating with these "pirates". This is nothing new. From before the First Barbary War, the world's been set upon by cockroaches and vermin such as these "pirate" criminals. I say, if a US ship or citizens are attacked and/or held hostage - give them the full force of our military in reprisal - and/or send in the SEALS at midnight to cut their throats and throw their entrails overboard. However, absent an assault upon our direct interests - let the buyer (cargo owner) beware and suffer the consequences of their own actions or inactions as the case may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 No. The merchant marine fleet is essentially unarmed. I respectfully disagree with your premise that we should do something in this case. The Saudis own the cargo. Let them build their own navy and police the high seas on their own behalf. We and they (the Saudis) ostensibly fought the "war on terror" "over there" so we each wouldn't fight it on our own soil. Enough's enough. They're a spineless bunch of ingrates like the Kuwaitis who wouldn't take up arms to defend their own selves, wives, families and country. They'd rather buy off the bad guys or pay for the service of being rid of them - which is much as they value women - like a pack of cigarettes. This is their MO and they're repeating it now by negotiating with these "pirates". This is nothing new. From before the First Barbary War, the world's been set upon by cockroaches and vermin such as these "pirate" criminals. I say, if a US ship or citizens are attacked and/or held hostage - give them the full force of our military in reprisal - and/or send in the SEALS at midnight to cut their throats and throw their entrails overboard. However, absent an assault upon our direct interests - let the buyer (cargo owner) beware and suffer the consequences of their own actions or inactions as the case may be. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Exactly! Hey yellow... Boston looks like the "better team." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Hey yellow... Boston looks like the "better team." The Sabres seem to have a problem with the Bruins physicality and speed. Lucic causes them a lot of problems. Also is Hank hurt? He has only 3 min of playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 The Sabres seem to have a problem with the Bruins physicality and speed. Lucic causes them a lot of problems. Also is Hank hurt? He has only 3 min of playing time. Yep... Oh well... If they are going to slump... Do it now! I am not watching... Just online... I am getting queasy about Miller... Is he letting in the long blasts? Sorry... This is the wrong forum... I should just go to SabresSpace and get it over with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Yep... Oh well... If they are going to slump... Do it now! I am not watching... Just online... I am getting queasy about Miller... Is he letting in the long blasts? Sorry... This is the wrong forum... I should just go to SabresSpace and get it over with! See! ^^^^ 4-7... WTF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 See! ^^^^ 4-7... WTF! I've seen threads go off on tangents but this one is particularly odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I've seen threads go off on tangents but this one is particularly odd. Not really! I am pirating... Ahhmmm, privateering the thread... I just can't figure out who is payiing me for this anguish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Yeh, Miller got pulled. He sucked tonight but so did the D, need to move up Weber. Teppo looked old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Yeh, Miller got pulled. He sucked tonight but so did the D, need to move up Weber. Teppo looked old. You sucked me back to SabresSpace! Just as the shipmates were jumping over the rail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Back on topic. Linkage Russia sending more ships in pirate crack down (CNN) -- Russia will send additional ships to the Horn of Africa in an effort to crack down on the recent wave of hijackings by Somalia-based pirates, its navy chief said Thursday. Russia says it will send more ships to patrol the area off the coast of Somalia. The Russian frigate Neustrashimy is already in the region and has helped repel pirate attacks on at least two ships. Adm. Vladimir Vysotsky told the official news agency Ria Novosti that more ships would be joining it soon. "After Neustrashimy, Russia will be sending warships from other fleets to this region," Vysotsky said. No additional details were provided. A NATO-led international fleet has attempted to crack down on the attacks. An Indian frigate battled a pirate ship in the Gulf of Aden on Tuesday, leaving the ship ablaze and likely sunk, the country's defense ministry reported. In September, Vysotsky said Russian ships would be operating on their own. But the crews of the Neustrashimy and the British frigate HMS Cumberland teamed up to chase off pirates who attacked a Danish ship in the gulf earlier this month. Video Watch more about the pirates' tactics More than 90 ships have been attacked off eastern Africa so far this year, according to the International Maritime Bureau, which monitors piracy. The pirates, who operate from largely lawless Somalia, still hold 17 vessels -- including the Saudi-owned supertanker Sirius Star, the largest ship captured to date. The pirates typically hold the ships and their crews for ransom, and Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal said Wednesday that the tanker's owners were in talks with the hijackers. "We do not like to negotiate with either terrorists or hijackers, but the owners of the tanker are the owners of the tanker and they are the final arbiters of what happens there." See where pirates are operating Two of the 25 crew members aboard the Sirius Star are Britons, Peter French and James Grady. The British Foreign Office released a statement on their families' behalf Thursday, saying they "greatly appreciate the concern that has been expressed." Video Watch Maersk CEO describe risks to shipping » "They hope that Peter and James will be home safely to their families very soon," the statement said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Looks like the pirates got their ransom, 1.7m or something. There's a good way to discourage them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Red Sea nations condemn pirates, vow action Link (CNN) -- Red Sea nations in the Arab League met in Egypt's capital on Thursday to coordinate a common strategy against piracy in the Gulf of Aden and off the coast of Somalia. Russia says it will send more ships to patrol the area off the coast of Somalia. Russia says it will send more ships to patrol the area off the coast of Somalia. The Egyptian government hosted the meeting, which was attended by representatives of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, Jordan, and Djibouti. A Somali transitional government official was also there. The group issued a communique condemning all acts of piracy. The communique said Arab nations around the Red Sea were principally responsible for security there and recommended establishing joint mechanisms between those countries to ensure the safety of shipping. The group welcomed international and regional support in fighting piracy, and stressed the importance of coordination between the Red Sea Arab nations and regional and international bodies. Video Watch more about the pirates' tactics » It also said Arab countries in that region should be open to having dialogues with other parties about the fight against piracy. "We did not touch upon the military aspect, but we touched upon aspects related to promoting coordination, consultation and exchange of information, as well as focusing on the importance of regional arrangements, with particular reference to the establishment of the regional maritime center in Yemen," said Ali al-Ayashi, Yemeni deputy foreign minister. The communique emphasized the importance of strengthening Arab and African cooperation to fight piracy and noted the respect the group has for the sovereignty, unity and independence of Somalia. Wafaa Bassem, Egyptian deputy foreign minister and chair of the conference, said "the international community in the short term should help and support the transitional government of Somalia and the Somali people with humanitarian, economical and political support to be able to prevent piracy acts in this region." The Gulf of Aden, which lies between the Horn of Africa and the Arabian peninsula, is the gateway to the southern Red Sea, which is linked to the Mediterranean Sea by the Suez Canal. See where pirates are operating » Egypt has a lucrative industry from the shipping traffic in the Suez Canal, but it is concerned about shipping firms pursuing other routes to avoid the Gulf of Aden. One Norwegian shipping firm, Odfjell SE, has ordered its vessels to avoid the waters off the Horn of Africa. Video Watch Maersk CEO describe risks to shipping That decision means that Odfjell SE's 90-plus ships will take the additional time and expense to sail around the southern tip of Africa instead of going through the Suez Canal, a shortcut for mariners for nearly a century and a half. Going around the Cape of Good Hope would add thousands of kilometers (miles) to a voyage from the Middle East to Europe or North America. How serious they are about this remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Looks like the pirates got their ransom, 1.7m or something. There's a good way to discourage them. The pirates were asking for 25 million. I haven't read or heard anything about them being paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Red Sea nations condemn pirates, vow action Link How serious they are about this remains to be seen. Right. They're going to hurl vile insults from atop their parapet and fart in the general direction of the pirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Change Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Can't Obama do something? I thought he was going to change things...but this is more of the same. I mean, he is bilingual isn't he? I heard he speaks jive (that's how he communicates with Jesse Jackson) and should be able to communicate with the pirates. Parlez-vous Franz-whachu talkin bout Willis! [/ilikecrayonz] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Can't Obama do something? I thought he was going to change things...but this is more of the same. I mean, he is bilingual isn't he? I heard he speaks jive (that's how he communicates with Jesse Jackson) and should be able to communicate with the pirates. Parlez-vous Franz-whachu talkin bout Willis! [/ilikecrayonz] It's ieatcrayonz...but, not bad for a newbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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