A Few Thoughts About The Game

[BillsVet]

billsvet, i so agree. Watched Kelsay all night and was amazed at how often - like ALWAYS - he is out of the play. He would get fooled by reverses, get blocked in on outside runs, get smothered when trying to rush Quinn, and forget about that ridiculous scheme of having him cover Harrison on a pass play. The guy is not NFL-calibre and if he is really a "Christian",

he should return his big money and just retire.

 

I can't believe Chris Ellis is so weak that he couldn't do a better job than the worst DE in the league.

 

Anyway, cut Kelsay and save some cap money...he's USELESS!

 

One positive that from last night is more Bills fans are beginning to realize how weak Buffalo is at DE. Schobel and Denney are both over 30, and Kelsay is useless.

 

It's amazing that DJ invested a third rounder on a guy who isn't even good enough to dress. That alone is an indictment of how poor the personnel department has been.

 

If Buffalo drafts in the middle of the first it won't be impossible, but finding quality pass rushers there may be difficult. I have a feeling they'll be going defense in the first, despite a middle of the OL which is pathetic.

[VOR]

If Buffalo drafts in the middle of the first it won't be impossible, but finding quality pass rushers there may be difficult. I have a feeling they'll be going defense in the first, despite a middle of the OL which is pathetic.

The center spot is where they need to upgrade. But few centers are worthy of a 1st rounder since the bust rate is pretty high. Mangold is the only center taken in the 1st in recent memory who has panned out.

[BillsVet]

The center spot is where they need to upgrade. But few centers are worthy of a 1st rounder since the bust rate is pretty high. Mangold is the only center taken in the 1st in recent memory who has panned out.

 

For once I agree with you VOR. If Alex Mack is available, I wouldn't waste much time getting his name on a card and up to the podium. The question is, if Buffalo drafts between 12-16 again, do you use that pick on a center or look to trade down and risk losing him.

 

Jonathan Luigs is there, but Mack appears to be a blue chip talent. Centers do not normally bust, as evidenced by recent picks at the position: Chris Spencer, Nick Mangold, Jeff Faine, and Damien Woody. Andre Gurode has also excelled.

 

Buffalo's weakness on the OL and DL is a product of drafting smaller players far too often.

[BillsFanM.D.]

Conversely, every Bills kicker in history that needed a game-winning FG (when the team was desperate) seems to miss it.

 

 

Or they make it (see Christie vs. Titans the last time we were in the playoffs) and we still manage to lose (or get hosed depending on your interpretation of home run throw-forward).

[Dibs]

The center spot is where they need to upgrade. But few centers are worthy of a 1st rounder since the bust rate is pretty high. Mangold is the only center taken in the 1st in recent memory who has panned out.

It's not due to the bust rate......the bust rate for 1st round C is extremely low.

There are very few C drafted in the first round.....only 4 over the last 15 years.

 

1999: Damien Woody- Made a probowl.....was moved to OG & has started all 10 games for the Jets this season.

2003: Jeff Faine - Regular starter

2005: Chris Spencer - Regular starter

2006: Nick Mangold - Regular starter

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

2003: Jeff Faine - Regular starter

2005: Chris Spencer - Regular starter

2006: Nick Mangold - Regular starter

I see that those three guys were drafted 21st, 26th and 29th, respectively. Unless we somehow get into the playoffs, we'll be picking in the top 19, which is a range that centers normally do not reach. Personally, if Mack is looked at as THAT good of a prospect, I'd have no problem with the pick...but they may very well pass on a center and look to get a lesser prospect at the position in the 2nd or 3rd.

[The Dean]

I see that those three guys were drafted 21st, 26th and 29th, respectively. Unless we somehow get into the playoffs, we'll be picking in the top 19, which is a range that centers normally do not reach. Personally, if Mack is looked at as THAT good of a prospect, I'd have no problem with the pick...but they may very well pass on a center and look to get a lesser prospect at the position in the 2nd or 3rd.

 

 

Love the sig, Boone.

[Dibs]

I see that those three guys were drafted 21st, 26th and 29th, respectively. Unless we somehow get into the playoffs, we'll be picking in the top 19, which is a range that centers normally do not reach. Personally, if Mack is looked at as THAT good of a prospect, I'd have no problem with the pick...but they may very well pass on a center and look to get a lesser prospect at the position in the 2nd or 3rd.

I haven't the time now to check the bust rate of 2nd/3rd round C(or OGs for that matter, which I want to do also) but personally I'm with you on this one. The bust rate for 1st round interior OLmen is non existent. They always pan out to be solid starters if not very good or better. IMO.....even though they are not generally considered to be as important as many other positions(whether that is a truism or not it appears to be the thoughts of all NFL teams), the non-bust aspect should surely see their draft worth increase. I have no problem with 'reaching' in the 1st round for an interior OLman.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Thanks, Dean.

 

Agreed, Dibs. Lets get the interior of this line FIXED, and have more games like last night in the run game. Thats got to be worth a 1st round pick.

 

Next to a quality center, perhaps Butler and Dockery would look a bit more like what we were hoping for.

[John Adams]

Might be thinking about QB with first overall if Trent keeps this up.

 

It really boggles my mind that he can look so good the first 6 weeks of the season, then look this bad the past 4.

 

Drafting a QB is too much of a crapshoot. I'd rather pick up a FA. If it gets to that.

 

Trent has one problem. He can't find people when they drop 7-8 in coverage. That seems like a fixable problem. I sure hope it is.

 

He has a good arm. He reads (and reacts to) blitzes well.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

He has a good arm. He reads (and reacts to) blitzes well.

 

O.o Not the past couple of weeks he hasn't.

[Bill from NYC]

I see that those three guys were drafted 21st, 26th and 29th, respectively. Unless we somehow get into the playoffs, we'll be picking in the top 19, which is a range that centers normally do not reach. Personally, if Mack is looked at as THAT good of a prospect, I'd have no problem with the pick...but they may very well pass on a center and look to get a lesser prospect at the position in the 2nd or 3rd.

 

Bingo. That is what the Bills generally do, except Jauron took this loser mentality to an even higher level. He prefers guys like Whitner and McKelvin to big guys who can block or tackle.

Interestingly, Whitner is a good player and imo McKelvin will be one as well. Hey....if McKelvin can adjust his mental compass and stay healthy, he might set an all time record for kickoff returns. The thing is, we are losing and will continue to lose because of holes in the OL, and the gaping wound that is the DL. Whitner could be the next Ronnie Lott, and McKelvin could be a combination of Mel Blount and Mel Gray and we will still lose until our team is strong and aggressive. Then, we can sit here and type in that they were "good" picks and they were, but not for our weak, cold weather team.

 

The list of good offensive and defensive linemen we passed on to take small "skill" players is endless, and the very reason why we are losing. I agree with you 100% in that if Mack is THAT good, you take him regardless of the slot. After that, they should draft yet more linemen on both sides of the ball, and of course a tight end. Instead, we are stuck with 3 more years of Jauron and losing, which is one and the same.

[BuffaloWings]

Conversely, every Bills kicker in history that needed a game-winning FG (when the team was desperate) seems to miss it.

 

 

Or they make it (see Christie vs. Titans the last time we were in the playoffs) and we still manage to lose (or get hosed depending on your interpretation of home run throw-forward).

Good catch...I forgot about that one for obvious reasons.

 

[BillsVet]

Instead, we are stuck with 3 more years of Jauron and losing, which is one and the same.

 

I'm not so sure that's the case. On the surface, perhaps. But if this team keeps losing in the style it has over the past two years, even Ralphie has to make the business move and keep the fan base interested.

 

I'd wager that there hasn't been a lower morale among Bills nation since probably 2004 when they lost to Pittsburgh and missed the playoffs.

[Bill from NYC]

I'm not so sure that's the case. On the surface, perhaps. But if this team keeps losing in the style it has over the past two years, even Ralphie has to make the business move and keep the fan base interested.

 

There is a lot of merit in the above. The thing is, the situation is truly mind boggling wrt Ralph.

 

I can understand bringing in Bledsoe, and drafting players such a Losman in terms of trying to boost ticket sales alone. Fans are excited by quarterbacks and other offensive skill players. That being a given, where is the draw from Whitner, Youboty, Simpson, McKelvin and Corner? Yes, McKelvin sure can return kicks, but that only lasts for a few seconds per game.

My point is that a stud DL or OL wouldn't create less excitement than DBs from a business/ticket sales perspective, or so I see it.

 

If you can figure out this mess, please let me know because I just don't get it.

[otisly00]

There is a lot of merit in the above. The thing is, the situation is truly mind boggling wrt Ralph.

 

I can understand bringing in Bledsoe, and drafting players such a Losman in terms of trying to boost ticket sales alone. Fans are excited by quarterbacks and other offensive skill players. That being a given, where is the draw from Whitner, Youboty, Simpson, McKelvin and Corner? Yes, McKelvin sure can return kicks, but that only lasts for a few seconds per game.

My point is that a stud DL or OL wouldn't create less excitement than DBs from a business/ticket sales perspective, or so I see it.

 

If you can figure out this mess, please let me know because I just don't get it.

 

So if you dont want to draft DB's in rounds 3, 4, or 5 either, when should the Bills get their secondary? DL and OL cant cover WR's.

 

Where on the fence would you be sitting if the Bills had a good passrush and stud DL, but sh!tty corners, and QB's were lighting us up with quick passes? The likes of Winslow, Edwards, Moss, Ginn (we saw what happens to a sh!tty corner against him), Favre, etc would eat us up. Good DB's give our DL more time to get to the passer. Our front office has done exactly what you wanted them to do the last 2 off seasons - signing Dockery, Walker for the OL, and trading for Stroud on the DL - which I'm sure they throught Stroud would help out their DE, but its obvious after Schobel, its a HUGE dropoff in DE talent.

[bananathumb]

One positive that from last night is more Bills fans are beginning to realize how weak Buffalo is at DE. Schobel and Denney are both over 30, and Kelsay is useless.

 

It's amazing that DJ invested a third rounder on a guy who isn't even good enough to dress. That alone is an indictment of how poor the personnel department has been.

 

If Buffalo drafts in the middle of the first it won't be impossible, but finding quality pass rushers there may be difficult. I have a feeling they'll be going defense in the first, despite a middle of the OL which is pathetic.

 

 

Who are the most promising DEs in the college ranks right now, o you or anyone else know?

[Bill from NYC]

So if you dont want to draft DB's in rounds 3, 4, or 5 either, when should the Bills get their secondary? DL and OL cant cover WR's.

 

Where on the fence would you be sitting if the Bills had a good passrush and stud DL, but sh!tty corners, and QB's were lighting us up with quick passes? The likes of Winslow, Edwards, Moss, Ginn (we saw what happens to a sh!tty corner against him), Favre, etc would eat us up. Good DB's give our DL more time to get to the passer. Our front office has done exactly what you wanted them to do the last 2 off seasons - signing Dockery, Walker for the OL, and trading for Stroud on the DL - which I'm sure they throught Stroud would help out their DE, but its obvious after Schobel, its a HUGE dropoff in DE talent.

 

The 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds would be a great place for the Bills to draft corners.....AFTER they have a strong foundation, and the best way to get strong up front is via the draft. Hell, if the lines are solid, go grab a first rounder! Why not, but first things first.

 

Stroud is a very good player, but he will be 31 at the start of the 09 season. Who is our 2nd best DT? I think Kyle Williams, and I see him as a good rotational player more than a quality starter. Walker was a bargain for 25 mil., but the 49 million for Dockery isn't looking so good right now (although he played well vs. the Browns). There should be young, solid, blue chip linemen on the Bills. Other than Jason Peters (who they lucked into), can you name 1?

 

By the way, the players you list ARE eating us up. The best DBs on earth cannot cover forever. We are getting almost zero pass rush from 3 of our front 4. Phil Hansen, a good, steady DE not noted for speed, would be considered a sack specialist compared to Kelsay and Denney.

[StupidNation]

Naw, just that my hypocrisy detector went off there.

 

It was right about this number of starts that you and others started calling for the head of the QB. Riddle me this: could JP play any WORSE than Edwards has the past four weeks? I don't think so.

 

You have a short memory. He could be and was worse in at least 2 of the 4 games.

[LABills08]

JP Losman still.....sucks. Nothing has changed.