Steely Dan Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 ...It all starts when the Bills failed to draft an Offensive Linemen... You know what I'm sick of this bullsh*t. We have a line. They're just playing like sh*t. They showed promise last year, and they looked great without Peters in the first game. Now they're playing horribly, but not because of lack of talent folks. The execution is not there. They have the ability to be good...they're just not winning the push right now, but it seems like a fixable problem. Agreed. However, ever since Hull retired I've been screaming for Buffalo to take a center high in the draft but for some reason they don't think it's an important position. I believe the Bills line of the 90's was anchored by Hull and he may have been the most important player on that OL. It would be between him and Wolford. How much better would the D be with Ngata in there? MUCH. So, the team loses games because "in hindsight, it didn't work out." If you have the chance to draft a top-notch line talent in the first, you do it. I don't give a damn if there's a really good DB out there. Ngata is a 3-4 lineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 ...It all starts when the Bills failed to draft an Offensive Linemen... You know what I'm sick of this bullsh*t. We have a line. They're just playing like sh*t. They showed promise last year, and they looked great without Peters in the first game. Now they're playing horribly, but not because of lack of talent folks. The execution is not there. They have the ability to be good...they're just not winning the push right now, but it seems like a fixable problem. When the other team knows when you're running or passing on nearly every play, you don't give yourself much chance. The opposition too often knows what's coming from the Bills offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ngata is a 3-4 lineman. 5 wallbash's because Ngata currently plays in a 3-4.....seriously? The 13-3 Ravens team played 4-3 in his rookie year it's easier for a 3-4 NT to play DT in a 4-3 rather than vice versa anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 5 wallbash's because Ngata currently plays in a 3-4.....seriously? The 13-3 Ravens team played 4-3 in his rookie year it's easier for a 3-4 NT to play DT in a 4-3 rather than vice versa anyway. I'm so sick of people bringing him up!! Why would they change it if he was so great in the 4-3? The draft grades on him were based on him playing in a 3-4. One wallbash. Better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Again we already went over this. While it would have been great to have Ngata, there were red flags about him that caused him to drop to 12th overall, which isn't where blue chippers/sure things (as much as any player is a sure thing) get picked. The point with "hindsight" and McGahee is that, as they say, it's 20/20. It's nice that you joined in May '08 and are now accusing everyone of hindsight, but there was a large contingent who thought the Whitner picked sucked at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 It's nice that you joined in May '08 and are now accusing everyone of hindsight, but there was a large contingent who thought the Whitner picked sucked at the time. Hey, I wanted Ngata. But I'm not going to beat my chest saying I was right or claim that I knew that he'd pan-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 It's nice that you joined in May '08 and are now accusing everyone of hindsight, but there was a large contingent who thought the Whitner picked sucked at the time. Is it possible he was a reader before joining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 900 posts in 2.5 months and you still haven't said a thing. ...Yeah. Good one. You got me... not a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 The thing I didn't like about the Felser article was that he totally ignored the fact that the Bills have chosen to build the line through veteran free agency rather than the draft. The Bills started the season with 60% of the starting line acquired via free agency. With Fowler out now it's down to 40%. If the team had not paid out the big $ for Walker & Dockery, then Felser would have had a better argument. His article could have focused on whether the Bills are getting their $ worth out of a highly paid OL, instead he elected to talk about a lack of high draft choices, which was one of two options to build the line-the Bills chose the other option, nothing wrong with their attempt. Now if Dockery & Walker (along with Peters & Butler) aren't performing up to their contracts, that's the topic of conversation, not the lack of high draft choices when the team spent big $ on the OL in free agency and contract extensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 It's nice that you joined in May '08 and are now accusing everyone of hindsight, but there was a large contingent who thought the Whitner picked sucked at the time. Would you refresh my memory please? I don't recall that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 The thing I didn't like about the Felser article was that he totally ignored the fact that the Bills have chosen to build the line through veteran free agency rather than the draft. The Bills started the season with 60% of the starting line acquired via free agency. With Fowler out now it's down to 40%. If the team had not paid out the big $ for Walker & Dockery, then Felser would have had a better argument. His article could have focused on whether the Bills are getting their $ worth out of a highly paid OL, instead he elected to talk about a lack of high draft choices, which was one of two options to build the line-the Bills chose the other option, nothing wrong with their attempt. Now if Dockery & Walker (along with Peters & Butler) aren't performing up to their contracts, that's the topic of conversation, not the lack of high draft choices when the team spent big $ on the OL in free agency and contract extensions. Harvey. in all of your many years of watching football, how many teams let top quality blockers leave in free agency? I know that there were a few but as a rule, teams find a way to keep these guys, and the easiest, most proven and logical way to get a good blocker is to draft one. Yes, this mainly applies to LTs, but it does carry over to the rest of the OL. The Titans and Giants are winning because their lines are just that strong. We are losing, and will continue to lose because our lines are weak and/or thin. As Joe Six Pack said, we are a team that develops defensive backs much in the mode of a farm team for the rest of the league. This assures us of being a weak team, which is unsuited to play in the elements and loses football games. In this sense, Jauron hit the ground running and might have already surpassed his inept predecessor. It really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKing Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I don't trust felser. I don't trust any guy that refers to football players as "studs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 The thing I didn't like about the Felser article was that he totally ignored the fact that the Bills have chosen to build the line through veteran free agency rather than the draft. The Bills started the season with 60% of the starting line acquired via free agency. With Fowler out now it's down to 40%. If the team had not paid out the big $ for Walker & Dockery, then Felser would have had a better argument. His article could have focused on whether the Bills are getting their $ worth out of a highly paid OL, instead he elected to talk about a lack of high draft choices, which was one of two options to build the line-the Bills chose the other option, nothing wrong with their attempt. Now if Dockery & Walker (along with Peters & Butler) aren't performing up to their contracts, that's the topic of conversation, not the lack of high draft choices when the team spent big $ on the OL in free agency and contract extensions. I think that's a fair point. They just suck at identifying good linemen both in college and the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Yeah, the premise of the article is stupid. What guarantee is there that if the Bills drafted OL, they'd be any better than the way they did it, which is develop some players (Peters and Butler), and sign some guys in FA? Am I the only one who thinks the quality of Felser's work when it comes to the Bills has gone down precipitously since he left the BN? I am hoping that my letter to the sports page get's in this coming Sunday in the Buffalo News (regarding Felser's articles). Is it just me, or is anyone else sick of reading about Buster Ramsey, Lou Saban, the 1950's smash mouth football, etc. etc. etc. Larry Felser is really showing his age because he can't write an article without going back in time somehow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKing Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Would you refresh my memory please? I don't recall that. Yes there were a large number of people who questioned that pick. And it does look questionable to have spent the 8th pick overall on whitner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Harvey. in all of your many years of watching football, how many teams let top quality blockers leave in free agency? I know that there were a few but as a rule, teams find a way to keep these guys, and the easiest, most proven and logical way to get a good blocker is to draft one. Yes, this mainly applies to LTs, but it does carry over to the rest of the OL. The Titans and Giants are winning because their lines are just that strong. We are losing, and will continue to lose because our lines are weak and/or thin. As Joe Six Pack said, we are a team that develops defensive backs much in the mode of a farm team for the rest of the league. This assures us of being a weak team, which is unsuited to play in the elements and loses football games. In this sense, Jauron hit the ground running and might have already surpassed his inept predecessor. It really is that simple. Teams let some good linemen get away, most of the great ones are not let go. 2/5 of the Giants starting line came via free agency: T Kareem McKenzie & C Shaun O'Hara The 3 other starters were an undrafted free agent, G Rich Suebert, a 5th round pick T David Diehl and a 2nd round pick GChris Snee. That's not that much different from our team's method of acquisitions: 2/5 via free agency, an undrafted free agent, a 5th round pick & a 4th round pick. The Titans have a mix as well: 2 free agents, C Kevin Mawae and G Jake Scott. A 7th round pick, G Eugene Amano; A 4th round pick T David Stewart & a 2nd round pick Michael Roos. It's not our method of building the line that's the problem, it's the evaluation of the talent of the players selected to be signed/drafted that is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 It's not our method of building the line that's the problem, it's the evaluation of the talent of the players selected to be signed/drafted that is the problem. John Guy and Tom Modrak please step forward to face the accusations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I am hoping that my letter to the sports page get's in this coming Sunday in the Buffalo News (regarding Felser's articles). Is it just me, or is anyone else sick of reading about Buster Ramsey, Lou Saban, the 1950's smash mouth football, etc. etc. etc. Larry Felser is really showing his age because he can't write an article without going back in time somehow! Funny...the NY Post/Daily News write all about smash mouth football when referring to the SB winning and 9-1 Giants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Ridlehuber Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Teams let some good linemen get away, most of the great ones are not let go. 2/5 of the Giants starting line came via free agency: T Kareem McKenzie & C Shaun O'Hara The 3 other starters were an undrafted free agent, G Rich Suebert, a 5th round pick T David Diehl and a 2nd round pick GChris Snee. That's not that much different from our team's method of acquisitions: 2/5 via free agency, an undrafted free agent, a 5th round pick & a 4th round pick. The Titans have a mix as well: 2 free agents, C Kevin Mawae and G Jake Scott. A 7th round pick, G Eugene Amano; A 4th round pick T David Stewart & a 2nd round pick Michael Roos. It's not our method of building the line that's the problem, it's the evaluation of the talent of the players selected to be signed/drafted that is the problem. It took some time, but finally a well researched, fact based post. With all the analysis and supposed experts evaluating drafts it would be nice to have someone do an unbiased evaluation of what positions have the highest chance of success relative to their draft status. It sure isn't offense line where the best lines are comprised of a mix match of undrafted free agents, street free agents and high end free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 Yes there were a large number of people who questioned that pick.And it does look questionable to have spent the 8th pick overall on whitner. During the early 1920s, someone thrust a racist pamphlet into the hands of an unknown soldier named Adolf Hitler. That was the second most obvious example of preaching to the choir of which I'm aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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