BillsVet Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Everyone knows how bad Detroit is and their absolutely terrible record during the Millen era. But looking at the other awful NFL franchises, they all have one thing in common: the lack of a real General Manager with a personnel background. Millen was hired without any previous personnel experience. Cincinnati fans are putting a billboard up asking owner/GM Mike Brown to hire a GM. KC has the the man Jason Whitlock at the Star calls, "King Carl" Peterson. Oakland still has Al Davis calling the personnel shots. Those four teams will be drafting in the top 5 come April. All of those guys are terrible talent evaluators, and their teams have become jokes. So much so that in the last five seasons, those four franchises have produced a mere 2 playoff teams. In an era where a salary cap exists and parity is almost predictable, some teams have still had no success while others routinely win. It's a lack of true talent evaluators and sound football minds that's been missing in Buffalo. For as much heat as DJ rightfully takes, it's time to demand an experienced football executive with solid personnel experience. Maybe then this franchise can regain some semblance of a winning culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Vice Presidents Modrak and Guy are the personnel men!! Russ Brandon brought in Stroud and Mitchell in the offseason. He's not doing that bad of a job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 Vice Presidents Modrak and Guy are the personnel men!! Russ Brandon brought in Stroud and Mitchell in the offseason. He's not doing that bad of a job! How about we bring in Greg Robinson for GM, SD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Bill Belichik didn't have a personnel background or a real GM when he took over the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Say what you want about Belichik, but he is technically the best coach in the league. Yes he cheated and his legacy will be tainted for it, but he likely could just as easily have won without the cheating. He can figure out teams and players strengths and weaknesses better than anyone I've ever seen. The things he can get out of a team are amazing. 400 yards for Matt Cassell?? Radny Moss has been content for the most part. Bill Belichik didn't have a personnel background or a real GM when he took over the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 Bill Belichik didn't have a personnel background or a real GM when he took over the Patriots. He had Scott Pioli, NE's VP of Personnel who has spent the last 16 years in personnel. 3 SB titles later, I think the tandem of BB and SP have demonstrated they "get it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Wait so the correlation between bad franchises tends to be their GM? Okay, Captain Obvious... Find any correlations between skin color and basketball talent? What's next, are you going to tell me your more likely to succeed in hockey if your team has a goalie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 He had Scott Pioli, NE's VP of Personnel who has spent the last 16 years in personnel. 3 SB titles later, I think the tandem of BB and SP have demonstrated they "get it." Thomas Dimitroff wasn't too bad either. Nor is Atlanta's rookie class doing poorly. Just coincidence, though. Wait so the correlation between bad franchises tends to be their GM? Okay, Captain Obvious... Find any correlations between skin color and basketball talent? What's next, are you going to tell me your more likely to succeed in hockey if your team has a goalie? How's this for obvious? Many successful NFL franchises have owners that have no trouble pulling the trigger to bring in elite, proven talent at all levels of the organization and also don't feel a need to micromanage their entire organization. You hire the best to be the best; and, the joy of it is that they are the best and so they get it and get it done without you having to punch their buttons every nanosecond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 He had Scott Pioli, NE's VP of Personnel who has spent the last 16 years in personnel. 3 SB titles later, I think the tandem of BB and SP have demonstrated they "get it." Oh, I don't doubt he was a good personnel guy. But you're complaining about a lack of a real GM with personnel experience. And BB meets that standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Thomas Dimitroff wasn't too bad either. Nor is Atlanta's rookie class doing poorly. Just coincidence, though. How's this for obvious? Many successful NFL franchises have owners that have no trouble pulling the trigger to bring in elite, proven talent at all levels of the organization and also don't feel a need to micromanage their entire organization. You hire the best to be the best; and, the joy of it is that they are the best and so they get it and get it done without you having to punch their buttons every nanosecond. Last time I checked Drew Bledsoe, Takeo Spikes, Marcus Stroud, and Lawyer Milloy were proven talent. And that's just the last six years. It's not eye-popping, and it's nothing extravegant, I'll admit, but that's an obvious effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Everyone knows how bad Detroit is and their absolutely terrible record during the Millen era. But looking at the other awful NFL franchises, they all have one thing in common: the lack of a real General Manager with a personnel background. Millen was hired without any previous personnel experience. Cincinnati fans are putting a billboard up asking owner/GM Mike Brown to hire a GM. KC has the the man Jason Whitlock at the Star calls, "King Carl" Peterson. Oakland still has Al Davis calling the personnel shots. Those four teams will be drafting in the top 5 come April. All of those guys are terrible talent evaluators, and their teams have become jokes. So much so that in the last five seasons, those four franchises have produced a mere 2 playoff teams. In an era where a salary cap exists and parity is almost predictable, some teams have still had no success while others routinely win. It's a lack of true talent evaluators and sound football minds that's been missing in Buffalo. For as much heat as DJ rightfully takes, it's time to demand an experienced football executive with solid personnel experience. Maybe then this franchise can regain some semblance of a winning culture. Ralph doesn't want to pay a G.M., and just promoted within with no real G.M. position. He isn't about to tear it all down and start again at this stage. He's happy when the seats are filled and the fans HOPE for a playoff team is renewed every draft. Don't expect anything more than that, as Buffalo will after this season be tied for the longest playoff draft in the NFL currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Everyone knows how bad Detroit is and their absolutely terrible record during the Millen era. But looking at the other awful NFL franchises, they all have one thing in common: the lack of a real General Manager with a personnel background. Millen was hired without any previous personnel experience. Cincinnati fans are putting a billboard up asking owner/GM Mike Brown to hire a GM. KC has the the man Jason Whitlock at the Star calls, "King Carl" Peterson. Oakland still has Al Davis calling the personnel shots. Those four teams will be drafting in the top 5 come April. All of those guys are terrible talent evaluators, and their teams have become jokes. So much so that in the last five seasons, those four franchises have produced a mere 2 playoff teams. In an era where a salary cap exists and parity is almost predictable, some teams have still had no success while others routinely win. It's a lack of true talent evaluators and sound football minds that's been missing in Buffalo. For as much heat as DJ rightfully takes, it's time to demand an experienced football executive with solid personnel experience. Maybe then this franchise can regain some semblance of a winning culture. I guess the coin came up heads this time, so that means its your turn instead of sisyphean bills to start the hourly "jauron sucks/ralph sucks/the front office sucks" thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Ralph doesn't want to pay a G.M., and just promoted within with no real G.M. position. He isn't about to tear it all down and start again at this stage. He's happy when the seats are filled and the fans HOPE for a playoff team is renewed every draft. Don't expect anything more than that, as Buffalo will after this season be tied for the longest playoff draft in the NFL currently. Yep...none of us knew that after the tenniseee throwforward that we would all be a decade older and no richer in playoff experience;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 Oh, I don't doubt he was a good personnel guy. But you're complaining about a lack of a real GM with personnel experience. And BB meets that standard. Where did I mention HC's. This thread isn't about who walks the sideline. It's about executives who handle the personnel side. Better teams ensure they have shrewd evaluators of talent. The teams which consistently flounder do not. Coaching is an element of the game which is not being discussed here. I guess the coin came up heads this time, so that means its your turn instead of sisyphean bills to start the hourly "jauron sucks/ralph sucks/the front office sucks" thread? Ah, WRaimus thanks for your input. Nowhere, as I previously mentioned, is the coaching element mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 Ralph doesn't want to pay a G.M., and just promoted within with no real G.M. position. He isn't about to tear it all down and start again at this stage. He's happy when the seats are filled and the fans HOPE for a playoff team is renewed every draft. Don't expect anything more than that, as Buffalo will after this season be tied for the longest playoff draft in the NFL currently. I think the only way Ralph makes a change is for enough fans to vote with their feet and not renew season tickets. It's not the best solution to the problem of not having made the playoffs since 1999, but at this point there's a clear line between the haves and have-nots in the NFL. To me, it's essential to have a GM in this league. Right now, the Bills are behind the curve with their triumvirate of Brandon, Modrak, and Guy. If, and it's a huge if, this team doesn't make the playoffs, it should signal that Buffalo needs a true talent evaluator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKing Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Everyone knows how bad Detroit is and their absolutely terrible record during the Millen era. But looking at the other awful NFL franchises, they all have one thing in common: the lack of a real General Manager with a personnel background. Millen was hired without any previous personnel experience. Cincinnati fans are putting a billboard up asking owner/GM Mike Brown to hire a GM. KC has the the man Jason Whitlock at the Star calls, "King Carl" Peterson. Oakland still has Al Davis calling the personnel shots. Those four teams will be drafting in the top 5 come April. All of those guys are terrible talent evaluators, and their teams have become jokes. So much so that in the last five seasons, those four franchises have produced a mere 2 playoff teams. In an era where a salary cap exists and parity is almost predictable, some teams have still had no success while others routinely win. It's a lack of true talent evaluators and sound football minds that's been missing in Buffalo. For as much heat as DJ rightfully takes, it's time to demand an experienced football executive with solid personnel experience. Maybe then this franchise can regain some semblance of a winning culture. I agree and have made similar posts. I don't know where they got this Russ Brandon from or what his experience level is, but in listening to him he doesn't strike me as being all there. The recent track record for the draft and free agent signings is poor. That points to a lack of ability on the part of Modrak and Guy to identify talent. It's amazing that none of them have been fired. I'd fire all 3 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Everyone knows how bad Detroit is and their absolutely terrible record during the Millen era. But looking at the other awful NFL franchises, they all have one thing in common: the lack of a real General Manager with a personnel background. Millen was hired without any previous personnel experience. Cincinnati fans are putting a billboard up asking owner/GM Mike Brown to hire a GM. KC has the the man Jason Whitlock at the Star calls, "King Carl" Peterson. Oakland still has Al Davis calling the personnel shots. Those four teams will be drafting in the top 5 come April. All of those guys are terrible talent evaluators, and their teams have become jokes. So much so that in the last five seasons, those four franchises have produced a mere 2 playoff teams. In an era where a salary cap exists and parity is almost predictable, some teams have still had no success while others routinely win. It's a lack of true talent evaluators and sound football minds that's been missing in Buffalo. For as much heat as DJ rightfully takes, it's time to demand an experienced football executive with solid personnel experience. Maybe then this franchise can regain some semblance of a winning culture. I've asked this before in different contexts and will ask this again: How prepared would you be to post this same comment if the Bills are 8-4 in three weeks? It is, after all, Brandon's first season, and at that point he'd have a .667 winning percentage as GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 The cold and hard fact is that Buffalo, NY is nowhere an "elite" coach, player or personnel man wants to work, unless he's getting paid a ton of money. And with the economy, paying a ton of money for great everything just isn't feasible. The Bills caught lightning in a bottle with the late 80's/early 90's Bills yet still couldn't win a freakin' SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49er Fan Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Give ANY team an O-line and either a very good QB or a dominating defense with a decent QB and they will win games. You need game-breakers to get through the playoffs and win the Super Bowl, but even teams like the Ravens are succeeding with a rookie QB with that formula. When I look at the teams that are struggling and with QB problems this year (Bengals, Browns, Texans, Raiders, Chiefs, Lions, Rams, 49ers, Seahawks), it's obvious that their respective O-lines are not giving the QB enough time to throw and hurting the running game in the process. The Saints are an anomaly; they score enough points but give up too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Where did I mention HC's. This thread isn't about who walks the sideline. It's about executives who handle the personnel side. Better teams ensure they have shrewd evaluators of talent. The teams which consistently flounder do not. Coaching is an element of the game which is not being discussed here. Ah, WRaimus thanks for your input. Nowhere, as I previously mentioned, is the coaching element mentioned. Ok, Please explain these. Jerry Jones - GM of the cowboys. He doesn't have traditional GM experience and he's an owner. At times he's given all personnel power to coaches. At times he is the only GM. But he doesn't have a "true personnel background" Marty Hurney - GM of the Panthers. He doesn't have a "true personnel background" Before becoming carolina's GM, he was their cap manager. Prior to that, he performed numerous duties on the business side of the ball in both Carolina and Washington. Hmmm, a business man becoming a GM? Nah, guaranteed failure. Minnesota Vikings - they dont have a "true" GM, and the man that occupies that Role, Rob Bezezinski, is the Vice President of Football Operations. They also have a vic president of player personnel. Hmmmm, a team that has a couple of VPs and no "true" GM? nah, it'll never work. Prior to becoming VP, Brzezinski worked in the cap side and business side of football administration. Fell free to explain why these teams do not suck, since they have no "traditional GM" either, after you get your R key fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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