Jeff Fisher Proves That Staying With A HC For A Long Time

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

SD-perhaps SU should retain Greg Robinson because he hasn't had enough time either? BBB, how about it? I mean, GR's only had a four seasons and they played Louisville tough, right? Head coaches should have at least five seasons, regardless of record. The problem is they don't have the right players at SU, and GR's trying real hard. Let's give him another year or two to right the ship!

I don't pay much attention to NCAAF, just never really interested me. Apologies, your mockery has gone a bit over my head.

 

But let me point this out. Right now and in most cases for several weeks, our personel is as follows:

 

-a 1-man recieving corps

-a group of tight ends lead by Robert Royal

-an interior offensive line on which 2 of the 3 starters are Jason Whittle and Duke Preston

-a defensive line on which 3 of the 4 starters are Chris Kelsay, Ryan Denney and Kyle Williams

-a secondary that fields a clueless rookie as it's nickel back, and safeties Bryan Scott and Ko Simpson

 

What precedent is there for coaches doing much better than 5-4 with comparable personel? To me, a team so flawed at the LOS on both sides of the ball owes something to it's Head Coach if the ship stays afloat.

 

And if we win Monday, the ship certainly is afloat, as we'll be tied for 2nd in the division and a game behind the leader with a healthy 6 games yet to go, and @KC and SF next up on our schedule.

 

Sounds to me like whoever the coach is of this team is actually doing a half-decent job.

[Flbillsfan#1]

That isn't the point.

 

Its the people who want Jauron canned who speak in absolutes...i.e., "Jauron is a loser and will never be successful."

 

The people who are happy Jauron was extended tend to speak more moderately. For example, "Jauron could be a good coach, as he's done a decent job so far."

 

A list like this just shows that there's precedent for someone to perform similarly to Jauron at the beginning of his tenure, and later on have real success with that team. Its far from proof that Jauron will take us where we want to go, but I think it does indicate that some of the pessimism around here is unfounded, based on his performance to date.

Statistics can be VERY misleading. Maybe Jimmy Johnson was 14-27 after 41 games but the majority of those losses came in his 1st year. His team unlike the Bills showed steady improvement.

[Cynical]

Jeff Fisher is a good example of sticking with a HC. Fisher is in his 14th year as a HC of the Houston/Tennessee franchise.

 

 

Be careful about calling for someone's head too soon.

 

I know, I know Jauron sucked in Chicago but compare his first three years here with Fishers.

 

My point?

 

WE'RE NOT DOOMED!!

 

Selective comparison, got to love it.

 

Throw out Jauron's first 5 years in Chicago, why? They do not exist?

 

You want analysis?

 

To me, it looks like to me a rookie/first time head coach was able to match records with a multi year veteran HC.

[Cynical]

I don't pay much attention to NCAAF, just never really interested me. Apologies, your mockery has gone a bit over my head.

 

But let me point this out. Right now and in most cases for several weeks, our personel is as follows:

 

-a 1-man recieving corps Three offseasons, and still a problem

-a group of tight ends lead by Robert Royal Said TE acquired by Dick Jauron

-an interior offensive line on which 2 of the 3 starters are Jason Whittle and Duke Preston Said players acquired by Dick Jauron

-a defensive line on which 3 of the 4 starters are Chris Kelsay, Ryan Denney and Kyle Williams Said players acquired or contracts extended with input by Dick Jauron

-a secondary that fields a clueless rookie as it's nickel back, and safeties Bryan Scott and Ko Simpson said players acquired by Dick Jauron

 

What precedent is there for coaches doing much better than 5-4 with comparable personel? To me, a team so flawed at the LOS on both sides of the ball owes something to it's Head Coach if the ship stays afloat.

 

And if we win Monday, the ship certainly is afloat, as we'll be tied for 2nd in the division and a game behind the leader with a healthy 6 games yet to go, and @KC and SF next up on our schedule.

 

Sounds to me like whoever the coach is of this team is actually doing a half-decent job.

 

Here's what I do not get. Dick Jauron goes out and acquires or keeps some of the crappiest players in the league, and you apologists sit around and praise the guy for the job he has done.

 

Back in week 2, I made statement in which I still stand by:

 

Some of the people on this board are so desperate for success, any success, they will accept failure if they can find something positive in it.

[Cynical]

That isn't the point.

 

Its the people who want Jauron canned who speak in absolutes...i.e., "Jauron is a loser and will never be successful."

 

The people who are happy Jauron was extended tend to speak more moderately. For example, "Jauron could be a good coach, as he's done a decent job so far."

A list like this just shows that there's precedent for someone to perform similarly to Jauron at the beginning of his tenure, and later on have real success with that team. Its far from proof that Jauron will take us where we want to go, but I think it does indicate that some of the pessimism around here is unfounded, based on his performance to date.

 

 

And the Metro Rail could be effective and extended beyond the UB campus, as it has done a decent job so far.

 

In your case and mine, it will be a long wait.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Here's what I do not get. Dick Jauron goes out and acquires or keeps some of the crappiest players in the league, and you apologists sit around and praise the guy for the job he has done.

 

Back in week 2, I made statement in which I still stand by:

 

Some of the people on this board are so desperate for success, any success, they will accept failure if they can find something positive in it.

Nobody is saying Dick Jauron is a good General Manager, only that he's a good Head Coach. If you want to go hire a real GM, I'm with you every step of the way.

 

I think the fact that this was the only thing you found to attack in my post makes my point: that the weakness of the lines is all but indisputable, and most coaches would be hard-pressed to fair significantly better than 5-4 given this personel.

[BillsVet]

My post to BBB and SD was an example of illustraing absurdity by being absurd. Of course SU should fire GR, because he's neither good on the field, or heading a recruiting effort.

 

In those same ways with the Bills, DJ has failed. At the first signs of trouble this year, there was no adaptation, no creativity with the gameplans. And during the offseason, the team prioritized areas that shouldn't be a priority. This includes spending 7 picks out of 26 total (including 2 1sts) on DB's. Yet, both the OL and DL aren't much better than they were in 2005. We have the same DE's, and the OL can't run block. Sound familiar?

 

Yet we're (SD and BBB) are still looking to excuse DJ's time in Chicago, and the fact that he's had a great deal of control in acquiring players for his team. We know he, Marv, and Modrak shared this responsibility. And with RB, it's probably mostly DJ handling personnel.

 

It's plain silly to continue this masquerade that DJ is competent and finds the right personnel.

[Cynical]

Nobody is saying Dick Jauron is a good General Manager, only that he's a good Head Coach. If you want to go hire a real GM, I'm with you every step of the way.

 

Unfortunately, the GM and HC are the same guy, and they cannot be separated.

IMHO, Dick is a lousy GM and a lousy HC.

 

In 7+ years, he has been unable to post a winning record against teams with records above .500.

 

The present Bills team lacks heart, desire, and motivation. Since it is the whole team, that makes it a coaching problem, and not a player problem.

 

I find it very odd JP complained about the coaching back in 2006 (they would not let him scramble).

JP and Lee Evans both bitched about the coaching / play calling in 2007 (prompting many in here to call for the "punishment" of Lee Evans)

And now, in 2008, we have players complaining about not being prepared (prompting people in here post "shut up and execute")

So over the past three years, we have complaints about the coaching staff, not from the fans or the media, but from the players. That's not a coincidence. That's a clue.

 

His game planning blows.

He cannot select coordinators to save his life.

He seems absolutely lost on how to pinpoint, dissect, and solve problems.

 

I think the fact that this was the only thing you found to attack in my post makes my point: that the weakness of the lines is all but indisputable, and most coaches would be hard-pressed to fair significantly better than 5-4 given this personel.

 

I do not know if other coaches would have settled for this personnel. We know Jauron did, and most likely will continue to.

[Steely Dan]

Unfortunately, the GM and HC are the same guy, and they cannot be separated.

IMHO, Dick is a lousy GM and a lousy HC.

 

In 7+ years, he has been unable to post a winning record against teams with records above .500.

 

The present Bills team lacks heart, desire, and motivation. Since it is the whole team, that makes it a coaching problem, and not a player problem.

 

I find it very odd JP complained about the coaching back in 2006 (they would not let him scramble).

JP and Lee Evans both bitched about the coaching / play calling in 2007 (prompting many in here to call for the "punishment" of Lee Evans)

And now, in 2008, we have players complaining about not being prepared (prompting people in here post "shut up and execute")

So over the past three years, we have complaints about the coaching staff, not from the fans or the media, but from the players. That's not a coincidence. That's a clue.

 

His game planning blows.

He cannot select coordinators to save his life.

He seems absolutely lost on how to pinpoint, dissect, and solve problems.

 

 

 

I do not know if other coaches would have settled for this personnel. We know Jauron did, and most likely will continue to.

 

The only crabbing from the players I remember is about Fairchild and he's gone. TE has said that the team wants to win for Jauron. The players really like him.

[Albany,n.y.]

Good comparison. After all...

 

They've got Kevin Mawae, we've got Melvin Fowler/Duke Preston

 

They've got Albert Haynesworth and Tony Brown, we've got Marcus Stroud and Kyle Williams

 

They've got Kyle Vanden Bosch and Jevon Kearse, we've got Chris Kelsay/Ryan Denney and Aaron Schobel

 

They've got Alge Crumpler, we've got Robert Royal

 

 

The difference? Coaching.

There's one GUY out there who isn't helping us when it comes to picking free agents.

[KRC]

Ah, the old "I am only going to pick the statistics that help my case and ignore all others" argument. If you want an honest assessment of DJ compared to JF, you need to look at everything. Here are the first nine years of DJ and JF:

 

Dick Jauron Coaching Record:

1999: 6-10

2000: 5-11

2001: 13-3

2002: 4-12

2003: 7-9

2004: {none}

2005: 1-4

2006: 7-9

2007: 7-9

2008: 5-4

TOTAL: 55-71 (0.437)

 

1 Division Championship

0 Conference Championships

 

 

Now, Here is Fisher's record over the first 9 years of his career:

1994: 1-5

1995: 7-9

1996: 8-8

1997: 8-8

1998: 8-8

1999: 13-3

2000: 13-3

2001: 7-9

2002: 11-5

TOTAL: 76-58 (0.567)

 

2 Division Championships

1 Conference Championship

 

Now, the only thing wrong with this comparison is that I am including this year for DJ. I am also including the year that nobody wanted him as a HC. To make up for the year that nobody wanted DJ, I can remove the 2002 season from Fisher's totals to come up with a 65-53 record (0.551), a conference championship and a division title.

 

Otherwise, it is far more insightful than the OP's selective analysis, which is nothing more than comparing apples to watermelons.

[R. Rich]

Ah, the old "I am only going to pick the statistics that help my case and ignore all others" argument. If you want an honest assessment of DJ compared to JF, you need to look at everything. Here are the first nine years of DJ and JF:

 

Dick Jauron Coaching Record:

1999: 6-10

2000: 5-11

2001: 13-3

2002: 4-12

2003: 7-9

2004: {none}

2005: 1-4

2006: 7-9

2007: 7-9

2008: 5-4

TOTAL: 55-71 (0.437)

 

1 Division Championship

0 Conference Championships

 

 

Now, Here is Fisher's record over the first 9 years of his career:

1994: 1-5

1995: 7-9

1996: 8-8

1997: 8-8

1998: 8-8

1999: 13-3

2000: 13-3

2001: 7-9

2002: 11-5

TOTAL: 76-58 (0.567)

 

2 Division Championships

1 Conference Championship

 

Now, the only thing wrong with this comparison is that I am including this year for DJ. I am also including the year that nobody wanted him as a HC. To make up for the year that nobody wanted DJ, I can remove the 2002 season from Fisher's totals to come up with a 65-53 record (0.551), a conference championship and a division title.

 

Otherwise, it is far more insightful than the OP's selective analysis, which is nothing more than comparing apples to watermelons.

 

 

No! I won't take your stats, and I don't agree w/ your statements! All is well!!!!!

[1billsfan]

Jeff Fisher is a good example of sticking with a HC. Fisher is in his 14th year as a HC of the Houston/Tennessee franchise.

 

Be careful about calling for someone's head too soon.

 

I know, I know Jauron sucked in Chicago but compare his first three years here with Fishers.

 

My point?

 

WE'RE NOT DOOMED!!

 

 

This is like comparing Kid Rock's career with Vanilla Ice's. Both of these men are in their late 50's. One of them have had great success in their career and one of them hasn't. It's over for Dick Jauron. He's PROVEN that he's a head coach that is ONLY capable of beating teams that are lesser than his own. Jeff Fisher has PROVEN that he is capable of beating the good teams. THAT'S why their careers are so lop-sided.

 

Dick Jauron is a 58 year old man who has only one winning season in his very long career. He's the only head coach that I know of in NFL history who has been allowed (and very fortunate) to coach as long as he has without a winning record. To still have faith that this man is going to become a good to great coach at this late of stage in his career is to believe that pigs fly. I think that you're still in the denial stage about Dick Jauron. Since you don't believe us fellow Bills fans, by all means go talk to a Bears fan and see what they think of Jauron. The Bills made a big mistake in hiring him. This is now mistake number three following Williams and Malarkey. The Bills would do well to fire Dick Jauron and hire the Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo if they are looking for the next Jeff Fisher.

[KRC]

No! I won't take your stats, and I don't agree w/ your statements! All is well!!!!!

 

Well, DJ did go 13-3 in 2001. It is not like JF has been able to improve on that. The best JF could do was 13-3. Therefore, DJ=JF.

[Bill from NYC]

This is like comparing Kid Rock's career with Vanilla Ice's. Both of these men are in their late 50's. One of them have had great success in their career and one of them hasn't.

 

Jauron is a great example of why, if your child gets admitted to an Ivy, it is worth it to spend every cent you have and send him/her up there.

 

Levy, who wanted to be the head coach, hired Jauron. Intellectually, I have no doubt that these are the brightest guys in the NFL. As football people, that is another story, especially given Marv's age. Nobody wanted Jauron, and Marv was a first time GM. He hired a fellow Ivy Leaguer who shared his philosophy, one that is so flawed that it is virtually non-existant, which is to build a cold weather, cover-2 team starting with the secondary.

Now, we are stuck with Jauron, his losing record, and soft team.

 

The good news is that we still have a team to root for. This counts above all.

[BUFFALOTONE]

SD-perhaps SU should retain Greg Robinson because he hasn't had enough time either? BBB, how about it? I mean, GR's only had a four seasons and they played Louisville tough, right? Head coaches should have at least five seasons, regardless of record. The problem is they don't have the right players at SU, and GR's trying real hard. Let's give him another year or two to right the ship!

 

College is completely different than the pros. With the exception of Butch Davis and Ron Zook leaving for other jobs i cant think of another coach who has stepped in and been overly successful. College is tough, you have to sell kids and parents on your product and hope they pan out. These coaches have a lot invested in these young kids.

 

In the NFL you get paid to play, you dont play you dont get paid, simple as that. The difference is they can go out and bring in a free agent or trade your ass if you dont produce. In college you dance with the one that brung you.

 

But as for Fisher he was on the hot seat after 2 bad years. The guy is a great coach and gets his guys to play.

[BuffaloBaumer]

I think what you really meant to say was that staying with a GOOD HC for a long time is a good idea. Jauron has not proved ONE DAMN THING in this league!! NOT ONE!

[KOKBILLS]

Jauron is a great example of why, if your child gets admitted to an Ivy, it is worth it to spend every cent you have and send him/her up there.

 

Levy, who wanted to be the head coach, hired Jauron. Intellectually, I have no doubt that these are the brightest guys in the NFL. As football people, that is another story, especially given Marv's age. Nobody wanted Jauron, and Marv was a first time GM. He hired a fellow Ivy Leaguer who shared his philosophy, one that is so flawed that it is virtually non-existant, which is to build a cold weather, cover-2 team starting with the secondary.

Now, we are stuck with Jauron, his losing record, and soft team.

 

The good news is that we still have a team to root for. This counts above all.

 

Agreed again Bill...

 

And please Folks...For the love of all things good in this world would You stop comparing Dead Dick to Coaches like Jeff Fisher and Dick Vermeil (yes the same Dick Vermeil who may well have been THE most emotional Coach in the History of The NFL)...I'm sure, if we wanted to (or really needed to), we can find dozens of Coaches that have numbers close to Dicks HC numbers to this point...Sure a few of them went on to greater things as they continued to Coach in The NFL, but if ANYONE here...I mean ANYONE thinks Jauron compares in any way to Fisher as a Head Coach then I would strongly recommend following a different Sport...Because Football is simply not working out for You...You're not getting it...

 

Remember way back in the late 90's when the Bills and Titans were two of the top Teams in the AFC? You remember what was said about those Titans Teams at that time? You remember how each and every Head Coach who Played those Teams commented that they were the most physical Team in the NFL? That was almost a decade ago...Anyone want to guess what Team is considered the most physical Team in the NFL this Year? Any questions?

[BuffaloBaumer]

Well, DJ did go 13-3 in 2001. It is not like JF has been able to improve on that. The best JF could do was 13-3. Therefore, DJ=JF.

 

Ohh my goodness. Do you even know how that team got to that record?? I lived in Chicago during Jauron's reign of terror and it sucked!! Chicago fans were calling for his head left and right from day one. The only reason that team got to 13-3 was because they had one miracle ending after another by the defense. That record did not even come close to who that team really was.

[KRC]

Ohh my goodness. Do you even know how that team got to that record?? I lived in Chicago during Jauron's reign of terror and it sucked!! Chicago fans were calling for his head left and right from day one. The only reason that team got to 13-3 was because they had one miracle ending after another by the defense. That record did not even come close to who that team really was.

 

Sarcasm detector off today?