Inspired by the tumultuous gay marriage thread:

[The Big Cat]

Something I have been thinking about in the wake of the election, an idea I've been meaning to float here has relevance to the prop 8 fiasco. I didn't want to post this in the prop 8 thread because it's only partly related and because it deals with a greater issue than just gay marriage.

 

Are 70% of blacks in CA narrow-minded bigots?

 

KD's question above is a loaded one, but one that should be considered. I think we can all agree that if not bigotry, then certainly religion is at the heart of the anti-gay marriage platform. Is bigotry sometimes fueled by religious beliefs? In my opinion, yes, but I stress: sometimes.

 

The fact of the matter remains, on issues like abortion and gay marriage- two issues that RARELY impact the lives of those who oppose them- the opposition's beliefs are shaped by how they practice their religion. It's not gays v Christianity- it's gays v certain types of Christians- often times dogmatic Christians with shades of fundamentalism.

 

Now, what does this have to do with November 4? Two groups who are NOTORIOUSLY intolerant of gays are blacks and Latinos- two groups who LOVE them some Jesus, but also two groups who voted, and tend to vote predominately for Democrats. So are 70% of blacks in CA narrow-minded bigots? May be, but of those 70%, I'd bet my bottom dollar that 90% are Jesus Freaks, even though they play for the blue team.

 

Personally, I think the tenets of the Republican Party are stronger and more sustainable than what the Democrats have to offer. BUT, for me and just about everyone I associate with, the Republican's alliance with Bible politics is a complete, and utter turnoff. Now that the Democrats have had their day, experts everywhere are trying to predict the future of the conservative movement, and how it impacts the Republican Party.

 

I think Republicans- from an ideological standpoint- would be wise to sever themselves from such a divisive demographic. However, alienating an entire party from such an enormous group of ACTIVE voters would be political suicide. So what's the alternative?

 

It is my belief that if Republicans and social conservatives want to continue with their [ironically] unholy union, then the black and Latino voters MUST be tapped. The GOP has done an excellent job of encouraging Americans to vote with their Bibles, yet somehow that message has alluded these two "minority" groups. Sure, they voted in favor of prop 8, but how many of those people also voted for Obama?- a COMPLETE CONTRADICTION.

 

If the Republican party is TRULY looking for a makeover in the wake of last Tuesday's beat down, they'd be wise to take my advice- mobilize the religious vote outside the white suburban CHRISTIAN churches, and learn to manipulate any voter with a strict adherence to religion- because let's face it, Christians aren't the only practitioners who oppose these types of issues, and no, you don't have to be white to be intolerant.

[Chef Jim]

I was listening to Larry Elder on the radio yesterday and he said that if blacks get over the "victicrat" mentality the Democrat party is toast because most of the ideals that blacks have fall in line the the Republican plateform.

[The Big Cat]

I was listening to Larry Elder on the radio yesterday and he said that if blacks get over the "victicrat" mentality the Democrat party is toast because most of the ideals that blacks have fall in line the the Republican plateform.

 

So true- just like if rural American gets over the Biblicrat mentality, they'd be Democrats. But, since folks are convinced that you can a.) legislate morality, b.) enforce it and c.) that campaign promises of morality have substance, Republicans have the white religious vote in their pocket.

 

IMO, blacks wouldn't be falling in line with the "Republican platform" - they'd be falling for Republican campaign promises. Cripes, Roe v Wade as a voting issue, has gotten men and women into office for 35 years, but it's still on the books, my friends!

[outsidethebox]

Something I have been thinking about in the wake of the election, an idea I've been meaning to float here has relevance to the prop 8 fiasco. I didn't want to post this in the prop 8 thread because it's only partly related and because it deals with a greater issue than just gay marriage.

 

 

 

KD's question above is a loaded one, but one that should be considered. I think we can all agree that if not bigotry, then certainly religion is at the heart of the anti-gay marriage platform. Is bigotry sometimes fueled by religious beliefs? In my opinion, yes, but I stress: sometimes.

 

The fact of the matter remains, on issues like abortion and gay marriage- two issues that RARELY impact the lives of those who oppose them- the opposition's beliefs are shaped by how they practice their religion. It's not gays v Christianity- it's gays v certain types of Christians- often times dogmatic Christians with shades of fundamentalism.

 

Now, what does this have to do with November 4? Two groups who are NOTORIOUSLY intolerant of gays are blacks and Latinos- two groups who LOVE them some Jesus, but also two groups who voted, and tend to vote predominately for Democrats. So are 70% of blacks in CA narrow-minded bigots? May be, but of those 70%, I'd bet my bottom dollar that 90% are Jesus Freaks, even though they play for the blue team.

 

Personally, I think the tenets of the Republican Party are stronger and more sustainable than what the Democrats have to offer. BUT, for me and just about everyone I associate with, the Republican's alliance with Bible politics is a complete, and utter turnoff. Now that the Democrats have had their day, experts everywhere are trying to predict the future of the conservative movement, and how it impacts the Republican Party.

 

I think Republicans- from an ideological standpoint- would be wise to sever themselves from such a divisive demographic. However, alienating an entire party from such an enormous group of ACTIVE voters would be political suicide. So what's the alternative?

 

It is my belief that if Republicans and social conservatives want to continue with their [ironically] unholy union, then the black and Latino voters MUST be tapped. The GOP has done an excellent job of encouraging Americans to vote with their Bibles, yet somehow that message has alluded these two "minority" groups. Sure, they voted in favor of prop 8, but how many of those people also voted for Obama?- a COMPLETE CONTRADICTION.

 

If the Republican party is TRULY looking for a makeover in the wake of last Tuesday's beat down, they'd be wise to take my advice- mobilize the religious vote outside the white suburban CHRISTIAN churches, and learn to manipulate any voter with a strict adherence to religion- because let's face it, Christians aren't the only practitioners who oppose these types of issues, and no, you don't have to be white to be intolerant.

So, what you are saying is that this country should not be run by a person who is a devout christian. But it is okay if an atheist with very liberal views can and should run this country?

Before you go and call me a "Jesus Freak". I am a christian, not a hard line fundamentalist christian, but I am a christian none the less.

I am offended by the far left villainous hatred toward anyone different then them. I do not have a problem with homosexuals. I do not believe in it, but that is my right as an American citizen. All the hatred that has been aimed at the church is pretty disgusting. If you do not want our fine nation to be run under christian beliefs, than vote out those you think are opposed to your views. I personally think this country is great BECAUSE of our christian beliefs. That is what separates us from the rest of the world.

I am sickened by the narrow minded hateful bigoted liberals who are so quick to stamp out any belief that is not to there licking, yet cry like a bunch of babies when they feel they are being denied there rights. Look up the word hypocrite in the dictionary, your likely to see yourself there.

[drnykterstein]

So, what you are saying is that this country should not be run by a person who is a devout christian. But it is okay if an atheist with very liberal views can and should run this country?

 

Either that or a Christian who is able to separate his politics from his beliefs, and understand that his beliefs are not founded in science and are not the beliefs of many.

[outsidethebox]

Either that or a Christian who is able to separate his politics from his beliefs, and understand that his beliefs are not founded in science and are not the beliefs of many.

How about a liberal who who doesn't jam there beliefs in gay marriage down my throat. there are always two sides to every story.

[outsidethebox]

Either that or a Christian who is able to separate his politics from his beliefs, and understand that his beliefs are not founded in science and are not the beliefs of many.

I didn't mean to jump down your throat. I apologize for that. it just seems more and more lately that atheists or atheism are attacking peoples christian beliefs on a regular basis.

[drnykterstein]

I didn't mean to jump down your throat. I apologize for that. it just seems more and more lately that atheists or atheism are attacking peoples christian beliefs on a regular basis.

 

Yeah, here is my biggest probem: Global Warming.

 

Science obviously shows that global warming is caused by humans and is very real. Somehow Christians got the idea that Global Warming is not consistent with the Bible (even though it's not mentioned in the Bible at all). So the 56% of this country that claims to be Christian keeps voting for politicians who aren't going to do a thing to stop the polution. And those of us who trust in science are getting scared and backed into a corner because the consequences are unkown and are not going to be good.

 

So the only way to fight back is to prove to the Christians that their religion is one big hoax. And I promise, any amount of research on the history of the Bible verifies that claim.

 

Gay marriage rights is just an afterthought and not a danger to humanity, more than it is just plain old "not nice".

[Wacka]

Yeah, here is my biggest probem: Global Warming.

 

Science obviously shows that global warming is caused by humans and is very real. Somehow Christians got the idea that Global Warming is not consitent with the Bible (even though it's not mentioned in the Bible at all). So The 56% of this country that claims to be Christian keeps voting for politicians who aren't going to do a thing to stop the polution. And those of us who trust in science are getting scared and backed into a corner because the consequences are unkown and are not going to be good.

 

So the only way to fight back is to prove to the Christians that their religion is one big hoax. And I promise, any amount of research on the history of the Bible verifies that claim.

 

Gay marriage rights is just an afterthought and not a danger to humanity, more than it is just plain old "not nice".

 

 

????????? :blink:

 

When I see stuff like this from you, I just remember that you think 9/11 is an inside job.

[drnykterstein]

????????? :blink:

 

When I see stuff like this from you, I just remember that you think 9/11 is an inside job.

 

Well that's just jumping to conclusions. Where did I say I thought it was an inside job?

 

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1180467

[outsidethebox]

Yeah, here is my biggest probem: Global Warming.

 

Science obviously shows that global warming is caused by humans and is very real. Somehow Christians got the idea that Global Warming is not consistent with the Bible (even though it's not mentioned in the Bible at all). So the 56% of this country that claims to be Christian keeps voting for politicians who aren't going to do a thing to stop the polution. And those of us who trust in science are getting scared and backed into a corner because the consequences are unkown and are not going to be good.

 

So the only way to fight back is to prove to the Christians that their religion is one big hoax. And I promise, any amount of research on the history of the Bible verifies that claim.

 

Gay marriage rights is just an afterthought and not a danger to humanity, more than it is just plain old "not nice".

Are you serious? Answer this question then. How can you keep a "big hoax" going for over two thousand years?

Contrary to your beliefs that all Christians are Bible thumping lunatics. I would not shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. Show me where Christians got the idea that Global Warming is not consistent with the Bible. I have never read anything about global warming in the Bible.

[Chef Jim]

Well that's just jumping to conclusions. Where did I say I thought it was an inside job?

 

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1180467

 

Compelling videos.

[drnykterstein]

Are you serious? Answer this question then. How can you keep a "big hoax" going for over two thousand years?

 

Great question. I have a few theories and could probably write a long essay on it. One is that the Bible has changed to keep with the times. Even the Change from King James to New King James to NIV has taken some of the more obvious contradictions out of the Bible. (Sermon on the plain anyone?). But I think the biggest thing is that overall it's a very plausible religion and has no real sticking points that are super obvious flaws in it. But I suppse I could ask the same question to you about Islam. Is Islam true, and if so, why do you not believe in it, and if not, how can it be around for such a long time?

 

 

Contrary to your beliefs that all Christians are Bible thumping lunatics. I would not shove my beliefs down anyone's throat.

 

Ya but you would vote for McCain based on his pro-life stance. Or some other guidance you've got that he is the more Christian candidate.

 

 

Show me where Christians got the idea that Global Warming is not consistent with the Bible. I have never read anything about global warming in the Bible.

 

I also have never read anything about global warming in the Bible (there is nothing about it)

http://www.family.org/sharedassets/corresp...ming_Debate.pdf

[Wacka]

Well global warming may be real (the earth has been cooling during this very quiet solar minium). But there is no proof that it is man made.

The people pushing it cite models, but that is not real science. Depending on assumptions you make in setting up the model, the results may vary widely.

People who don't want any animal testing say we should use computer models. We laughed at them (I used to be in biotech). A single cell is more complex than any computer model. The earth's climate is infinitely more complex than that.

 

As for the WTC, how can anyone with sense think even the possibility of it being an inside job. Find the special that was on the History Channel recently. They spent two hours debunking the the "Truthers" point by point. Talk to DC Tom He saw the plane pass over him on the way to the Pentagon. Talk to another person here on TSW (forgot his name now) who worked across the street from the WTC.

[drnykterstein]

But there is no proof that it is man made.

 

Lol, well ya. I'm glad you remember the scientific method from 4th grade. It's all about gathering data and drawing best possible theories from it. So while there is no proof (and likely never will be). The best possible theory certainly says it's caused by humans.

 

Why do you hate science so much?

[Chef Jim]

Lol, well ya. I'm glad you remember the scientific method from 4th grade. It's all about gathering data and drawing best possible theories from it. So while there is no proof (and likely never will be). The best possible theory certainly says it's caused by humans.

 

Why do you hate science so much?

 

Which man caused the ice age and the reversal of that ice age?

[drnykterstein]

Which man caused the ice age and the reversal of that ice age?

 

Well, there are theories, it is science after all.

http://www.sentex.net/~tcc/iceage.html

 

But since you (Wacka) don't believe in science, what makes you think an ice age existed at all? Isn't that just some silly gibberish that the scientists make up? Or do you get to pick and choose which theories you trust in?

[The Big Cat]

So, what you are saying is that this country should not be run by a person who is a devout christian. But it is okay if an atheist with very liberal views can and should run this country?

Before you go and call me a "Jesus Freak". I am a christian, not a hard line fundamentalist christian, but I am a christian none the less.

I am offended by the far left villainous hatred toward anyone different then them. I do not have a problem with homosexuals. I do not believe in it, but that is my right as an American citizen. All the hatred that has been aimed at the church is pretty disgusting. If you do not want our fine nation to be run under christian beliefs, than vote out those you think are opposed to your views. I personally think this country is great BECAUSE of our christian beliefs. That is what separates us from the rest of the world.

I am sickened by the narrow minded hateful bigoted liberals who are so quick to stamp out any belief that is not to there licking, yet cry like a bunch of babies when they feel they are being denied there rights. Look up the word hypocrite in the dictionary, your likely to see yourself there.

 

Okay, buddy. Hold on, and I'll get your trophy from the trunk of my car.

 

May be you should re-read the American Constitution because you seemed to have missed the part that says: OUR COUNTRY DOESN'T HAVE CHRISTIAN BELIEFS.

 

What rights are "hateful bigoted liberals" denying Christians by suggesting that some of them share beliefs that are oppressive towards others? No, seriously, specifically which rights am I denying them? Because if I'm not denying anyone rights, then I'M NOT A HYPOCRITE.

 

And oh yeah, I'm also Christian- and GUESS WHAT- MY CHURCH PERFORMS CEREMONIES FOR GAY COUPLES! IMAGINE THE HORROR!

 

There is nothing at ALL hypocritical in my original post. But, if you want spit semantics here, let me share with you the definition of bigotry: The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.

 

Intolerance. As in some religious groups are taught to be intolerant of gays.

 

But, yeah. I'M the hateful one.

 

EDIT: and yes, an atheist, whether or liberal or not, is certainly qualified to run our country. I'd love you to try and convince me otherwise!

[Wacka]

Lol, well ya. I'm glad you remember the scientific method from 4th grade. It's all about gathering data and drawing best possible theories from it. So while there is no proof (and likely never will be). The best possible theory certainly says it's caused by humans.

 

Why do you hate science so much?

 

Are you a scientist?

Well I am.

 

 

This global warming stuff has become a religion in itself.

[drnykterstein]

This global warming stuff has become a religion in itself

 

And the oceans that are turning into plastic soup... what do you make of that?

 

(and I'm struggling to believe you are even close to a scientist)