Sisyphean Bills Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Anybody think Schonert might not have the answers? Or is it injuries and lack of talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Anybody think Schonert might not have the answers? Or is it injuries and lack of talent? I think it's more of the latter, especially the line's lack of talent. When the line doesn't/can't do its job, the OC and the QB are pretty hamstrung. We're also passing more because we've been behind...more so in the Jets & Patriots* games. Hard to come from behind when running the ball (whether you can or not) takes up more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I think it's more of the latter, especially the line's lack of talent. When the line doesn't/can't do its job, the OC and the QB are pretty hamstrung. We're also passing more because we've been behind...more so in the Jets & Patriots* games. Hard to come from behind when running the ball (whether you can or not) takes up more time. Except that we abandoned the run after the first play of the game, which went for a horrible 7 yards. after that is was shotgun passing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Except that we abandoned the run after the first play of the game, which went for a horrible 7 yards. after that is was shotgun passing... He has also had issues getting plays in on time, forcing Trent to call timeouts. Not quite ready for prime time yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 3rd and 1 we pass. only 3 things can happen when you pass and 2 of them are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mularkey Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Anybody think Schonert might not have the answers? Or is it injuries and lack of talent? I just think this staff goes into a shell when what they want to do does not work all of the time. If a starter gets injured automatically we alter to a more conservative game plan to compensate instead of going after the other team with a backup. If the opposing defense makes a great play or shuts us down on something the team wanted to do then the coaches totally try to compensate. Adjustments need to be made but they don't always have to be conservative. Why not trust the system if there is a system? I think it starts with the head coach and I am not a believer and never was, with that said I still bleed bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Turk Shonert didn't develop this thing we call an offense, he's just stuck with it. Shonerts a good coach thats been asked to use the greatest show on turf in a more conservative manner. We need Jim Kelly and the K-gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Yes. Last yr our offense was bad, as in historically so. This yr, they've transcended to an overall level of mediocrity. Our only "significant" addition is a 2nd round WR that's caught only a handful of passes. IIRC, except for our TEs, we really didn't have many injuries to the offense last yr. I believe our line started like 15 games together (Peters being the only one to miss the last game). We lost Lynch for a few games, that's it. I think we've been hit at least as badly w/ injuries already this yr, & for whatever reason, it appears that our Oline has regressed (maybe McNally really did make a diff), yet we're avging about 7 or so more pts/game and (I assume, too lazy to look up the #s) improved our 3rd down conversions considerably and are getting more overall yds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 It is too early to tell about Turk. Of course, he would simply follow a pattern of poor OCs that we have had dating back to the end of the Levy era. The funny thing is that some of these coordinators started off hot -- then fizzled. 1998: Joe Pendry. Remember how imaginative he seemed with Flutie behind center? There were even concerns that he would leave for a head coaching gig after the season. Things went downhill in 1999, when defenses caught up. By 2000 it was rumored that Wade fell on the sword to save Pendry, rather than Ronnie Jones as was initially reported. 2001: One and done for the former Seahawks QB coach, Mike Sheppard. 2002: Kevin Gilbride looked like the man through the first half of 2002. By the second half the offense began to struggle, and 2003 proved to be a disaster. 2004: Tom Clements was the guy that TD had privately lobbied for back in 2002. He and MM put together a well balanced attack that year that led to the only winning season the team has had since 1999. By 2005, MM had relieved him of his play calling duties. 2006: Steve Fairchild came in and appeared to do a pretty good job of mentoring JP, who put together a respectable 2006 campaign. I think we all know how 2007 went... So it just appears to be par for the course. The success of Gilbride with the Giants last year and Mularkey with the Falcons this year tells me that this may not all be a product of poor coordinators. Namely, poor QB play led to the demise of each of these coaches. Once defenses figured out how to contain Flutie, Pendry seemed to drop IQ points. Sheppard never really stood a chance with RJ at the helm. As Bledsoe's skills diminished, so did Gilbride's abilities as a play caller. Clements was burdened with a QB in Losman that was thrown to the wolves too quickly. Fairchild did well to help Losman reach his ceiling -- and realized that he couldn't go much further with the one-trick-pony. I believe that Turk's future fortunes will hinge directly on whether or not he and Edwards can get out of this current offensive slump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGimp Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 For some reason nothing ever really changes at OBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Anybody think Schonert might not have the answers? Or is it injuries and lack of talent? I think the better question is who in the hell thought Schonert would be a HUGE Upgrade as a 1st time OC? I mean...Don't get Me wrong...I thought He would be an Upgrade based on who He replaced...And I was certainly hoping He would be a HUGE Upgrade...But making a statement like that before the guy has done anything as an OC would be premature at best IMHO... Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Turk is failing at the game of chess. Teams have figured out the Bills offense and he is failing to adjust around what they are throwing at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurt Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Turk is simply not qualify for the job. He had some good ideas but soon the bag of tricks is now empty. Now he doesn't know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I'm starting to think that Dick Jauron is calling the shots more than the OC and DC. Early in the season we saw a lot more variety and aggressiveness on both sides of the ball. Remember the blitzing and the going for the jugular 31 yard TD pass after the Seattle fumble? Now all that's gone and we're playing very conservative on both side of the ball. Dick Jauron's philosphy. Dick wants to win all games 14-10 scoring a TD late to win. That's his philosophy and I think that's what he's telling Perry and Turk to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 i would also like to append my previous post with the following... while there are plenty areas where he can improve, the good news is that HE CAN IMPROVE. we have to recognize that we not only have a young team, but also an OC in his first year at it. But as KOKBILLS mentioned, the fact that he (as a first year OC) is an upgrade over our last OC, is a big enough reason to keep him around and let him grow. Look how long a guy like Gilbride got to stick around in the league. At least we arent stuck with a guy like that who is stuck in his ways as a "proven" OC. It took him YEARS to figure it out and adapt, and sure enough, he won a SB last year. I think it would be a wiser decision to keep him around and let him come into his own. This is supposedly the league of second chances. We should probably give this guy A chance to start off with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Anybody think Schonert might not have the answers? Or is it injuries and lack of talent? It was always strange to me that Buffalo didn't really interview anyone else. There was going to be a promotion from within. There is a dearth of good coordinators and certainly good HC's throughout the league. The best ones react in-game to opponents, and I've not seen that with a Bills team in a long time. I'm not sure Schonert can adjust in game, which is a similarity he has with his HC. That fact alone is startling, considering that both men have spent a lot of time as coaches in this league. Jauron spent 8 seasons as a player and 24 as a coach in the NFL. Schonert has 20 seasons in the NFL as either a player or coach. I would like to see an aggressive passing game on Monday night, given the thrashing Denver handed Cleveland. That should nicely set up the running game as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Anybody think Schonert might not have the answers? Or is it injuries and lack of talent? I think Schonert is doing a good job. The team moves the ball well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Turk is failing at the game of chess. Teams have figured out the Bills offense and he is failing to adjust around what they are throwing at him. uhmmm not sure I agree...TE is playing poorly now... thats the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 uhmmm not sure I agree...TE is playing poorly now... thats the difference. Right. I'm sure Turk didn't tell Trent to fumble in the end zone and throw 2 picks against the Fish or throw an interception for a TD against the Jets. If Trent can stop turning the ball over and do everything else like he has been, then Turk turns back into a "coaching genius" like he was the first 6 weeks into the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Turk started out strong The problem is teams have made adjustments to his offensive scheme now that they have film Now he needs to make adjustments to their adjustments Not being able to run the ball hurts us....that is the one constant that can help a team when they are struggling in other areas or are taking on injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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