Mickey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 BiB please inform, (I probably should do this on PM). I undestand that the UN never had it under guard since Saddam wouldn't let any foreign troops, let alone UN troops, on his soil. However, the UN inspectors did have their seals on the bunkers, and an inventory that they checked whenever they were allowed in. I think that's what is being touted as "under UN guard". In addition to this my understanding is that the last time that UN inspectors checked the inventory and seals at this facility was not January of 01, but January of 03. Granted that left Saddam two months to move stuff out but it's not the same as years with no inspection. My second question has to do with the your buddy who was one of the initial guys tasked with inspection of sites on the "WMD hit list". Were they, as has been postulated, moving through sites on the hit list searching for WMD's and although there may have been tons (as you yourself have stated) of conventional explosives, there were no WMD's so they moved on the the next target site initially and then came back? Personally, Being an admitted civilian, I don't understand the difference between TNT and DMX or VMX or whatever the stuff was. However, as I understand it this was all conventional munitions. 86879[/snapback] This thing is a day old and already it is a rat's nest of insufficient information upon which to base a conclusion. All the more reason to wait it and out and see what information is developed before jumping up on a soap box and making accusations. I think Richio liked this one so much he started not one, not two but three threads on it. Madon. Stamp a big "WE DON'T KNOW" on this and wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Feel the love. What I find most interesting about the whole story is who told who what. Iraqi guy to UN guy. One week before election. Hmmm. Not a conspiracy theorist, but... Then throw in the IAEA spin. "The greatest weapons bonanza in history". Come on, give me a break here folks. Kerry shouting it from the rooftops. This election crap sucks. Also, folks, the UN never had it under guard. That's why it had seals placed on it. Once in awhile they come by and check the seals. They last drove out in January, '01. Forget the Condi connection. Why on earth would she need to know anything about it in the first place? She was informed by Vienna as her office was the proper receiving point for their correspondance, and it gets brought up as it obviously has political ramifications, since 90% of American voters at least seem to know little about most anything-much less this. If anyone here for a second thinks there aren't plenty of Kerry supporters in the Pentagon (many who made General Officer under Clinton) I have a bridge in Brooklyn...Reporters pick favorable sources. Most of them are named "Anonymous". Once again, this is a non-story, but with lots and lots of spin. Have any of you stopped to think of how the interim government would have known what was there on invasion day? How many of them were keeping inventory of munitions in Sadaams regime? SH had literally months to hide whatever he wanted or needed to. Oh, and I was curious, so I had a talk with one of the guys who initially inspected the site today. It was on the WMD "hit" list. He seems to think it wasn't there. But, this can not be construed as credible information as it didn't come from a web site or a major news organization. No link. Sorry. Blood in the water. What are we all going to have to talk about 10 days from now? 86851[/snapback] I guess I don't get it. Why would the President, Condi Rice and this administration have to find out from the IAEA today something our own troops and NBC embeds knew 18 months ago? Would troops looking for 380 tons of explosives that were under seal in January of '03 in April not bother telling anyone that "oh by the way" those 380 tons vanished? I am sure it takes some time for these things to make it up the chain of command but 18 months???? These are soldiers not mailmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich in Ohio Posted October 26, 2004 Author Share Posted October 26, 2004 I am looking at the facts dumb a$$, all of them, including the one you keep ignoring. The very same source you quote also quotes a Pentagon source that says in March, long before the April incident with the embeds, the weapons were there and intact and got away because of a lack of security by the US. What is your answer to that crap-meister? Unlike you, my position on this is that we don't know yet what happened and that there are plenty of unanwered questions that will need time to sort out. I haven't accused the administration or anyone else of anything. You are the raving idiot that goes off half-cocked the split second any scrap of news can be twisted by you into an attack on Kerry. If it turns out that nothing on this was our fault or the administration, I'll have nothing to apologize for because I haven't accused anyone of anything. You on the other hand have accused, tried, convicted Kerry and presented as cold hard fact your whole preferred outcome on this story using the facts that help you and igoring the ones that don't. Heck, even the source you are relying on considers the issue a mystery. What is it that you know that NBC, the reporters your are relying on don't know? I haven't even mentioned how often you have dismissed them as a source with any credibility at all. If we knew they were not there in April of '03, why is Condi Rice and the President finding out about it only now, in Ocotober of '04? The President is calling for an investigation, what is there to investigate if they have been gone since before we got to the site back in April of last year and we knew that all along? Why is he calling for an investigation now? Why didn't we investigate back then? For the fourth time at least, this story is young and we will likely see more information come out before this thing is settled. Under those circumstances, the wise choice seems to me to wait and see rather than raving accusations, waving fingers and snickering like an aging whore with a new john. Stop whining that the topic is being changed. Your crappy posts are a running topic here and this story just the latest manifestation. I have addressed both, your bs and the story itself. This is just another of many examples from your missives on Kerry having had an affair (proved incredibly wrong) to your numerous posts that "Eureka, WMD's Have Been Found, Take that Libs" (every one of which was shown, within a day or so, to be totally false). You simply don't care if you are right or wrong, it doesn't matter to you. As long as you can vomit up some bile, you seem to be pretty pleased with yourself. You are an embarassment even to many of the conservatives on this board. 86791[/snapback] hey buckwheat..settle down, My point that continues to be missed by you is this....I am not denying that the explosives were there prior to the invasion. But you need to understand that we were not invading tht particular site. We had a pretty full plate, and by the time that we got there on 4-10-04 (perhaps the fastest moving invasion in history) the explosives in question were gone. Hmm, how exaclty is this GWB's fault?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 BiB please inform, (I probably should do this on PM). I undestand that the UN never had it under guard since Saddam wouldn't let any foreign troops, let alone UN troops, on his soil. However, the UN inspectors did have their seals on the bunkers, and an inventory that they checked whenever they were allowed in. I think that's what is being touted as "under UN guard". In addition to this my understanding is that the last time that UN inspectors checked the inventory and seals at this facility was not January of 01, but January of 03. Granted that left Saddam two months to move stuff out but it's not the same as years with no inspection. My second question has to do with the your buddy who was one of the initial guys tasked with inspection of sites on the "WMD hit list". Were they, as has been postulated, moving through sites on the hit list searching for WMD's and although there may have been tons (as you yourself have stated) of conventional explosives, there were no WMD's so they moved on the the next target site initially and then came back? Personally, Being an admitted civilian, I don't understand the difference between TNT and DMX or VMX or whatever the stuff was. However, as I understand it this was all conventional munitions. 86879[/snapback] Truthfully: My bad on the '01. Sorry. Yes, everything being talked about is conventional explosives. Lots and lots of it, but there is a lot of it out there. The organization I work for was also embedded with the invasion forces. The emphasis was on identifying actual WMD storage areas, but as an aside a quick inventory was also done on what was actually present (why do it twice?). There's an obvious difference between actual munitions and packaged explosives. These inspections were being done by US Army Technical Escort and Explosive Ordnance Disposal personnel, among others, who are probably the most highly trained people in this field in the world, when it comes to the military. RDX is not a big deal. It's a common ingredient. I will also say that the amounts would have triggered a response. Tons is a lot. I can't say for sure, but if it were me, I wouldn't have payed much attention to a couple hundred pounds of the stuff. It's lying around Iraq like leaves after a windstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCI Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I think once again CBS Owes Bush an apology. CBS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I guess I don't get it. Why would the President, Condi Rice and this administration have to find out from the IAEA today something our own troops and NBC embeds knew 18 months ago? Would troops looking for 380 tons of explosives that were under seal in January of '03 in April not bother telling anyone that "oh by the way" those 380 tons vanished? I am sure it takes some time for these things to make it up the chain of command but 18 months???? These are soldiers not mailmen. 86902[/snapback] Simply because it is minutia. Down in the weeds from a policy standpoint. This isn't "Jeopardy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadDad Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 This thing is a day old and already it is a rat's nest of insufficient information upon which to base a conclusion. All the more reason to wait it and out and see what information is developed before jumping up on a soap box and making accusations. I think Richio liked this one so much he started not one, not two but three threads on it. Madon. Stamp a big "WE DON'T KNOW" on this and wait. 86889[/snapback] My head is spinning so I don't remember which of Richio's thread I said the same thing in, let's give it a couple of days to work the real story. I tried to post a link to the Jerusalem Post that quoted an unamed Pentagon source. I'm with you let's see how it plays out. As Darin said, at one time Jessica Lynch was a superwoman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 My head is spinning so I don't remember which of Richio's thread I said the same thing in, let's give it a couple of days to work the real story. I tried to post a link to the Jerusalem Post that quoted an unamed Pentagon source. I'm with you let's see how it plays out. As Darin said, at one time Jessica Lynch was a superwoman. 86946[/snapback] I would love to know who, aside from the usual crowd of hypnotized lemmings, EVER thought Jessica Lynch was anything but (1) in the wrong place at the wrong time and (2) darned lucky at the way things ended. And by the way if she'd been Jeff Lynch would anyone have cared? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadDad Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I would love to know who, aside from the usual crowd of hypnotized lemmings, EVER thought Jessica Lynch was anything but (1) in the wrong place at the wrong time and (2) darned lucky at the way things ended. And by the way if she'd been Jeff Lynch would anyone have cared? Probably not. 86951[/snapback] Relax Debbie, I think that, (at the risk of putting words in his mouth), what Darin was saying was that the sensationalism that surrounded the initial story concerning Jessica Lynch proved to be nothing more than that. It is highly possible that that this is more of the same. Give it a couple of days to settle out and then we'll be more able to analyze what happened and when. Rich jumped all over this almost like his real name is Hannity or something. Many of us ahve posted links and made arguments to the contrary, the point is that right now none of us know what's the truth but a few days should clear it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 hey buckwheat..settle down, My point that continues to be missed by you is this....I am not denying that the explosives were there prior to the invasion. But you need to understand that we were not invading tht particular site. We had a pretty full plate, and by the time that we got there on 4-10-04 (perhaps the fastest moving invasion in history) the explosives in question were gone. Hmm, how exaclty is this GWB's fault?? 86903[/snapback] I don't know whose faut it is, I don't even know if we screwed up or not. The latest has a bunch of embeds saying that when we were there in April, we didn't search the place at all but just moved on without leaving any guard behind. The info is new and complicated so we just have to see what happens. You didn't, you jumped right up with accusations against Kerry and "proof" exonerating the administration. Wait and see. If it turns out we did screw up, Bush gets blamed. He is the head guy, the CinC, the bucks stops there. Right or wrong, that is the way it is. A couple of choppers collide in the desert, its Jimmy Carter's fault because he was the commander in chief. That is that . Worse scenario for the President: if the administration knew back then, why are we finding out about it now, 18 months later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Rich, I wonder if Bush will apologize for the stevestojan lies he's said about Kerry. Fact is, they both are pieces of stevestojan deceptive politicians, and you have to be to get hired. Sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Bib, do you really have a bridge in Brooklyn? I have been looking for one. Let me know, I think I have a coupon somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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