todd Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 Let's do the bad first, so I don't have the irrational hotheads up my ass: 1. Mike Williams. He's in his 3rd year and making a ton of friggin money. Donahoe spent a #4 on the guy. What do I expect of a #4 pick? I expect some growing pains, but I also expect some signs of dominance. Some signs of being elected to the pro bowl. By the 3rd year, if he's not showing dominance by the midpoint of the season, he's becoming close to being labeled a bust. He's one game away from that label, imho. A Donahoe mistake. 2. Hiring Gregg Williams. Well, maybe he should just stay away from those named Williams. What say you about that? Apparently a good coordinator. Not a good HC. Mistake by donahoe. 3. Unwillingness to force the issue of getting rid of Gilbride's awful playcalling when we were losing last year. Not good. Mistake. 4. Trade for Drew. Um, I love Drew. But he doesn't elevate the offense. He cant' win games by himself. I expect that out of a #1 pick, or at least the pick we gave away. Bad choice. 5. Josh Reed. I don't like him. Fill in the blanks - not worth a 5th round pick, let alone a 2nd. The good: 1. Getting value for Peerless instead of overpaying him. Good move. Peerless has done jack as a #1 WR. 2. Drafting Travis in the 2nd round. Damn good, especially when we'll get a 1st rounder for him. A 1300 yard back isn't easy to come by, unless you are the Broncos. We ain't. 3. Drafting Willis. In the guy's second game he shows the talent and burst a 1300 yard back (travis) doesn't have. Nice! Looking like a good pick right now. And he's essentially a rookie right now. 4. Vision drafting Losman. Nice way to hedge your bet. He bet on Drew turning it around, but hedged it well with a talented rookie. Nice hedge. 5. Re-signing Moulds. If you remember, the choice was between getting moulds or wiley. Wiley is a blowhard nothing. Moulds is a great pro. Nice move. 6. Aaron schoebel. Wow. Who would have thought that this guy would be capable of double-digit sacks? Not me. I scratched my head at this pick, but I was wrong. Who would have thought he'd be able to make Ogden look like a fool? Not me. Great draft pick. He's becoming a playmaker, and he's damn good. 7. Our defense in general. Pretty damn good. I'm impressed. 8. LB FAs. Takeo and London are damn good. Posey is solid, but not spectacular. But takeo and london are playmakers. 9. Terence McGee. Pretty damn good DB and damn good returner. Nice pick. So it's clear donahoe hasn't been perfect, and he's missed on a few important things, but his draft picks and FA pickups have been pretty good overall. So lets have some perspective here, folks. Everything doesn't suck. Don't shoot yourselves yet. It sucks not going to the playoffs again, and I hate that, but Donahoe has done a good job overall.
Guest Guest Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 That's all well and good if you are judging a GM based solely on how many good players he can accumulate. However, the goal of the GM is not to compile just a bunch of good players but, rather, it's to compile a bunch of good players who, together, can play as a team and win games. Donahoe could put together a whose who of players but if collectively they can't win more than 20 games in 4 years worth of trying, it's no damn good.
buffalo mike Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 You make some very good points, and I respect your opinion. I personally think Donahoe has had enough time to turn this organization around and point them in the right direction- instead we have the worst team in the NFL. There is no excuse for an organization to continue to spiral downward. That's my opinion on this whole mess. Until Losman takes the field- we still don't know what we have. I think he will be great, but that needs to be seen.
MDH Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 The bad should also include neglecting the entire Oline for his entire tenure with the Bills. He tried to address it with Williams, and he's not as bad as some want to make out (he is dominant in the run game) but he is certainly not worth a #4 pick. Bottom line is that from what you've posted you seem to believe that a "good" job is when the sum of the parts look good on paper, but can't win games. 1-5 in the 4th year of "rebuilding". That, my friend, is not a good job.
jahnyc Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 The bottom line is wins and losses. Based on that criteria, TD has been a failure. After four years of losing, there are no mitigating circumstances. I know this sounds harsh, but our current situation is not tolerable for most fans of the Bills.
buffalo mike Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 The bad should also include neglecting the entire Oline for his entire tenure with the Bills. He tried to address it with Williams, and he's not as bad as some want to make out (he is dominant in the run game) but he is certainly not worth a #4 pick. Bottom line is that from what you've posted you seem to believe that a "good" job is when the sum of the parts look good on paper, but can't win games. 1-5 in the 4th year of "rebuilding". That, my friend, is not a good job. 85468[/snapback] The 4th year of a "3 year plan".
Frez Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 What is Donahoe's record now? Is it 18-37 ? I think the guy is lost and afraid to reach for help.
Fan in San Diego Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 The team is worse now after three years when we should be blossoming into a power house. TD is a failure IMHO.
Dawgg Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 Here's where you are wrong: We will not get a first rounder for Travis Henry. In fact, we probably won't even get a second rounder. Only one team (ONE) was willing to pay a 2nd for Corey Dillon and that was the Patriots, who had an excess of 1st and 2nd rounders. Travis is a few notches below Dillon in terms of value, plain and simple. Expect to get a decent third rounder for him. Because of Donahoe's draft day idiocity, we have no first rounder next year. He clearly misjudged this team and felt that next year's first rounder would be a low pick, thereby making worth the trade and send it over to Dallas. Instead of trading down and drafting Losman, he jumped on Lee Evans and now, we will miss out on a top 10 pick next year. Add to that the fact that we won't be picking until the second round.
Cutting Drew With Dignity Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 The bright side is that we still have the #4 pick from 2002.
Bill from NYC Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 The bright side is that we still have the #4 pick from 2002. 85509[/snapback] Yeah, that shining star, and Denney on a trade-up.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted October 26, 2004 Posted October 26, 2004 I have a few quibbles with particular points, but overall I think this is a pretty fair assessment of how TD has dealt with the particulars of managing the Bills as a sports team. All together these assessment of these individual moves pales against the bottomline that the Bills have a huge losing record during his tenure while other teams in the same position as when he came aboard (Carolina for example) have done much better. However, despite my willingness to fault TD for the bottomline of his results working the sport, I do recognize that this is quite a different question than the one of how does Ralph judge TD\s tptal work as GM. TD's results have roundly sucked in terms of managing the sport, but as best as I can tell the results are pretty good in managing the Bills as a business. Ultimately it is probably the business bottom line which will detemine whether TD is fired or extended. Like it or not, I and other fans have sold out 11 straight Bills games despite the horrible record produced under TDs tenure and I would not be surprised if Ralph extends his contract because of this. The key thing will be Ralph's personal relationship with TD and if TD has done a good job of sucking up to Ralph, the Bills miserable onfield performance may well not result in his getting canned/ We'll see.
1billsfan Posted October 26, 2004 Posted October 26, 2004 If JP pans out for the Bills then TD will have three feathers in his cap with Loseman, McGahee and Evans. The futures of Evans and McGahee look very bright, that's for sure. TD does still need Loseman to be the real deal (that and a winning 2005 season) to save his legacy with this organization.
ajzepp Posted October 26, 2004 Posted October 26, 2004 Let's do the bad first, so I don't have the irrational hotheads up my ass: 1. Mike Williams. He's in his 3rd year and making a ton of friggin money. Donahoe spent a #4 on the guy. What do I expect of a #4 pick? I expect some growing pains, but I also expect some signs of dominance. Some signs of being elected to the pro bowl. By the 3rd year, if he's not showing dominance by the midpoint of the season, he's becoming close to being labeled a bust. He's one game away from that label, imho. A Donahoe mistake. 2. Hiring Gregg Williams. Well, maybe he should just stay away from those named Williams. What say you about that? Apparently a good coordinator. Not a good HC. Mistake by donahoe. 3. Unwillingness to force the issue of getting rid of Gilbride's awful playcalling when we were losing last year. Not good. Mistake. 4. Trade for Drew. Um, I love Drew. But he doesn't elevate the offense. He cant' win games by himself. I expect that out of a #1 pick, or at least the pick we gave away. Bad choice. 5. Josh Reed. I don't like him. Fill in the blanks - not worth a 5th round pick, let alone a 2nd. The good: 1. Getting value for Peerless instead of overpaying him. Good move. Peerless has done jack as a #1 WR. 2. Drafting Travis in the 2nd round. Damn good, especially when we'll get a 1st rounder for him. A 1300 yard back isn't easy to come by, unless you are the Broncos. We ain't. 3. Drafting Willis. In the guy's second game he shows the talent and burst a 1300 yard back (travis) doesn't have. Nice! Looking like a good pick right now. And he's essentially a rookie right now. 4. Vision drafting Losman. Nice way to hedge your bet. He bet on Drew turning it around, but hedged it well with a talented rookie. Nice hedge. 5. Re-signing Moulds. If you remember, the choice was between getting moulds or wiley. Wiley is a blowhard nothing. Moulds is a great pro. Nice move. 6. Aaron schoebel. Wow. Who would have thought that this guy would be capable of double-digit sacks? Not me. I scratched my head at this pick, but I was wrong. Who would have thought he'd be able to make Ogden look like a fool? Not me. Great draft pick. He's becoming a playmaker, and he's damn good. 7. Our defense in general. Pretty damn good. I'm impressed. 8. LB FAs. Takeo and London are damn good. Posey is solid, but not spectacular. But takeo and london are playmakers. 9. Terence McGee. Pretty damn good DB and damn good returner. Nice pick. So it's clear donahoe hasn't been perfect, and he's missed on a few important things, but his draft picks and FA pickups have been pretty good overall. So lets have some perspective here, folks. Everything doesn't suck. Don't shoot yourselves yet. It sucks not going to the playoffs again, and I hate that, but Donahoe has done a good job overall. 85453[/snapback] Great post. I agree with everything you said......and like I've said before, those bashing TD will be wanting him back when he's long gone. There is no defense for the record of the '04 Bills. There is, however, very good reason and PLENTY of evidence that TD will right the ship - no matter what.
34-78-83 Posted October 26, 2004 Posted October 26, 2004 That's all well and good if you are judging a GM based solely on how many good players he can accumulate. 85462[/snapback] Well, that's pretty much exactly how I judge a GM (along with how well he puts a staff together). I don't see it like some others who use the corporate "trickle down" analogy where everything stems to the top man. The Coaches have their own responsibilities that don't fall back to the GM, as do the players. I am not one who would say any GM is a failure because he chose one draft pick over an equally rated draft pick at the time, in any round. Hindsight should not factor into how one can fairly evaluate a GM.
MarkyMannn Posted October 26, 2004 Posted October 26, 2004 I have a few quibbles with particular points, but overall I think this is a pretty fair assessment of how TD has dealt with the particulars of managing the Bills as a sports team. All together these assessment of these individual moves pales against the bottomline that the Bills have a huge losing record during his tenure while other teams in the same position as when he came aboard (Carolina for example) have done much better. However, despite my willingness to fault TD for the bottomline of his results working the sport, I do recognize that this is quite a different question than the one of how does Ralph judge TD\s tptal work as GM. TD's results have roundly sucked in terms of managing the sport, but as best as I can tell the results are pretty good in managing the Bills as a business. Ultimately it is probably the business bottom line which will detemine whether TD is fired or extended. Like it or not, I and other fans have sold out 11 straight Bills games despite the horrible record produced under TDs tenure and I would not be surprised if Ralph extends his contract because of this. The key thing will be Ralph's personal relationship with TD and if TD has done a good job of sucking up to Ralph, the Bills miserable onfield performance may well not result in his getting canned/ We'll see. 85587[/snapback] Exactly. We all judge TD from a W-L record and players. With all the sell-outs at RWS, he has made this club a lot of money, and it is a business first. Only when ticket sales drop will he really be accountable
ATBNG Posted October 26, 2004 Posted October 26, 2004 This thread astounds me. Donahoe is selling you on hope. JP, Evans, and Willis look good now because they're largely unknown pro quantities. I hope they're great, but the results on the field show that he's done a lousy job building the core of this team.
Guest Guest_eyedog_* Posted October 26, 2004 Posted October 26, 2004 "equally rated draft pick" in whose eyes ? TD's ? The gm picks the coach, strike one. Drafts the players, strike two. And bottom line is held accountable for overall wins and loses during his tenure, strike three. I do give hime credit for cleaning up the cap and selling out the stadium, for now at least it's sold out. If they keep losing it will come to an end quick. TD should be pushed further upstairs to run the business side of this team and bring in another football guy to run the personal side of this team imo.
Guest Guest Posted October 26, 2004 Posted October 26, 2004 I'm not big on how TD has put together the talent(or lack of) on this team either. HOWEVER, in the modern league he has something that is hard to find, CAP MANAGEMENT. He pulled this team out of possibly the WORST cap situation any team has faced. And within 2 years had the funds available to sign big name free agents. Even if some of those turned to busts. Yes, Bledsoe may suck now, but how nice was it when he came in here after we had to put up with Collins/Hobert/Flutie/Johnson?? So he only had one year in him, oops. Does TD's drafting suck?? MOST DEFINITELY. So take some power away from him. Make him just president, and let him run contracts and some Free Agency. And bring in someone to run scouting. OR do what a few other succesful teams have done: give that power to Mularkey. Put it all on Coach Mike. Say "Here ya go, build the team you want to coach!" How much worse could it be?? Mike's been a player and he can probably feel out the intangibles on young players better than Tom the accounting-nerd who got beat up by the players.
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