Losman should be our starting QB

[Thurman#1]

You've still missed it.

 

I'm simply saying that JP (IMO) may well be in a better situation than Trent next year. What I mean is a better coaching situation. Does anyone on this board really believe that this current coaching staff is capable of developing a QB and putting effective offensive game plans together from week to week? Does anyone think that Buffalo is a good place for a young QB to spend their early NFL learning years with this current staff? Not that every other franchise is better, but on this subject, Buffalo has to rank near the bottom.

 

 

God, this is depressingly correct.

[Thurman#1]

you either have dementia or other serious memory issues. do you not remember JP playing this year in relief of trent and for the last 4 years he's still the same guy. even though it was a short time he was the same old jp. you mark my words JP Losman will never be a starting QB in this league again. all the QB starved teams and there were a ton of them this past off season wouldn't give the bills a bowl of soup for losman whats that tell you.

 

by the way blaming edwards for our last three loses is flat out ridiculous. he didnt play well last week but he didnt have any help either JP wouldn't have done any better. when teams know you cannot run the ball there is no more 8 in the box . it didnt take the rest of the league long to realize that we cannot run the ball and then they started putting 7 guys in coverage and out the door went our passing game. if you cant run the ball and teams know that its very easy for any good coach to take away your passing game i dont care who your QB is.

 

your comment on hamden is so ridiculous it does not even warrent a response!

 

 

Oh, this is rich. So, you're saying that no QB can succeed unless the defense is putting 8 in the box. Disregarding the fact that the average defense puts 7 in the box on most plays. Virtually every team puts 7 in coverage on passing downs, unless they commit more to rushing the passer, which can also be devastating.

 

Look at Cutler the other week, when both of his active HBs were injured, leaving only one FB to run the ball. Do you suppose that the defense left eight in the box at that point? Yet Cutler still passed his way to a win. Look at Warner for most of the year. Very little threat to run, yet he passed very successfully.

 

It's not impossible to play well in Trent's place right now. But Trent's not managing to do it. And while this is obviously NOT all Trent's fault, he absolutely gets his share of the blame.

[The Dean]

It sounds like your view is closer to mine than it had been; albeit your opinion of Losman is still more positive than my own.

 

To what extent has the offensive supporting cast truly been upgraded over the last three years? Very few people on this board would argue that our offensive line run blocks at all on most running plays. Its level of pass protection has declined substantially from last year, and there are frequently times when defenders arrive at the quarterback without the offensive line slowing them down. The Bills don't have a legitimate pass catching TE on the roster right now. In some ways, the receiving corps of three years ago was better, because you had a big, physical target (Moulds) and a speed player to stretch defenses (Evans). Over the past several games, Edwards' targets included Evans and . . . who? Josh Reed has been injured, James Hardy is a struggling rookie, Roscoe Parrish is small and one-dimensional. I don't know that the level of performance of the offensive supporting cast over the last three games--from the offensive coordinator and offensive line on down--is that much better than what we saw in 2005.

 

While Edwards clearly looked bad against New England, his performance in the Jets and Dolphins games would have been solid had it not been for the turnovers. If you blame the turnovers exclusively on Edwards (and many here do), then those two performances were indeed bad. But if a quarterback gets hit as he throws due to bad pass protection, is the resulting interception the quarterback's fault, or the fault of the offensive line? If a defender comes through the line unblocked, on a three man rush, is the resulting safety the quarterback's fault, or the fault of the offensive line? When things like that happen to most other quarterbacks, people point the finger at the offensive line. When things like that happen to Edwards, there are many who remain silent about the contribution poor line play may have made to the turnovers, and point the finger squarely at Edwards.

 

That's true. I'd argue that his lack of arm strength was less important in our 2005 offense (where we couldn't pass protect long enough for guys to get open deep anyway) than it would be in a more typical offense. But all else being equal, you obviously want a quarterback who can make all the throws, and Holcomb doesn't fall into that category.

 

I agree, although right now what's really hurting the Bills is the lack of a rushing threat. Defenses are only rushing 3 - 4 players and dropping everyone else into pass coverage. Better offensive line play and better play calling would force defenses to honor the rushing threat and would prevent teams' defenses from suffocating the Bills' receivers.

 

Without looking at specific examples the validity of this criticism is difficult to evaluate. There have probably been some cases like the following. Someone (such as you) argues A. In arguing A, this person brings up some valid points. There may have been times when, before acknowledging the validity of those points (which to me appeared obvious), I went straight into what I felt to be the weaknesses or gaps in whatever had been argued. This is an area in which I'm probably better today than I was a few years ago, but I'm not perfect there just yet.

 

There have been times when I've felt you haven't acted in the way you've described. And when you express your own view by name-calling those who disagree with you, it does not appear to outsiders that you're engaging in the reasoned, open-minded discussion you hope for from others. It's very easy for online discussions to degenerate into flame wars. Your tendency to be very quick with "cheap shots" as you put it can lead discussions into flame-like territory. Maybe some of those discussions were with . . . the less intellectually inclined, and were doomed from the beginning. But there have been other times when you have turned what should have been intelligent, reasoned discussions into name-calling contests.

 

Losman's initial Wonderlic score was quite low. He retook the test and received a much higher score the second time around. At the time I'd posted about this, I'd thought the Wonderlic was an aptitude or intelligence test. Something smelled fishy to me, because it shouldn't be possible to receive that big a boost on a well-designed intelligence test, from one test to the next. However, someone (it wasn't you) decided that rather than calling me names, they'd provide me with additional information about the Wonderlic. Based on the sample questions I saw, the Wonderlic is not a well-designed intelligence test. Many of the questions are knowledge-based, and a number of the questions appear to have been designed as time sinks. With a test like that, studying can indeed produce a big boost in one's test score. After seeing those sample questions, I decided individual players' scores are not necessarily very conclusive with respect to their underlying intelligence. I'm a little surprised the NFL still uses the Wonderlic instead of some other, better test.

 

 

I'm not going to go through a comment-by-comment response, this time, as I am a little pressed for time today...and quite frankly I don't think that it is necessary. While we aren't in total agreement, I understand your points, and even the ones I don't agree with, I can mostly respect. In truth, we aren't really all that far apart on most of the issues.

 

I will say that, IMO, a QB has to have a a reasonable arm to play in Buffalo, and in this division. Even Edwards, who certainly doesn't have a weak arm, seems to be struggling, a bit. I was concerned that Rivers would be chewed up by the Buffalo weather. After watching him, he still isn't my first choice, but he could probably handle it as well as Edwards has.

 

Also, we will agree about the running game being important, but that is a chicken-egg argument. Is the running game stifled because the team has no deep threat, allowing the defense to crowd the LOS? There are other considerations, of course. Is the O Line simply bad? I'm no OL expert, but I tend to think there is more talent on that line than what it looks like on gameday. Is is the scheme? Honestly, I don't know. I know how I would go about trying to fix the ground game, though.

 

Oh, and yes, Reed is a very big loss to this offense, on several levels. The running game is definitely hurt by his absence.

 

So, I will now remove you from my "moron" list, for conversing like a member of the community. If I was complicit in the past friction (and I tend to think it usually takes two for that sort of thing) I apologize.

[Ball Coach]

Trent has ruined this season with his brilliant consecutive trifecta of losing to the Dolphins, Jets and Patriots. Sorry and no offense pal, but you suck. He's clueless and needs to sit and watch Losman being given his final chance to resurrect his career as a Buffalo Bill.

 

These last three losses are so historically bad for this franchise that I don't think we here at TSW are even fully aware of the magnitude.

 

I know LABillsfan is going to give me flack and plenty of others here, but drastic times call for drastic measures. I think Trent has tossed every last bit of 5-1 cache he had with these last three abysmal games against the AFC East division. It's time to shake things up and put a QB in there that can actually get the ball to #83. If Losman fails, then give the ball to Hamden. I'm done with Edwards. You and your head coach can take a hike.

 

 

STOP already! How many practices have you been to? Let the coaches do their job. If JP was better then he would be the Man.

[TheKing]

I have been a public JP fan since he came to the team. I'm still a JP fan. I still think he is just as good as Trent and might have a much better career than Trent. Does that establish my bonafides as a Losman fan?

 

I haven't changed my tune any. If Losman is given a decent chance, he may well prove to be an excellent QB. So now, how has my tune changed? The same is true of Trent, who also may well prove to be an excellent QB. Where is the change of tone? It is imaginary. You are the one who is benefitting from the crash of the hard drive, since you can accuse people of saying anything you feel like. Yet somehow, as The Dean pointed out, everybody knew in advance where to make the comments and where not to so that every single one of them would become lost. Remarkable. Or else you're just remembering wrong. I wonder which is more likely.

I appauld you for staying with your opinions, a rarity on this board.

You're wrong on that particular opinion but you have conviction.

Opposing opinions do not bother me in the least.

 

Idiots that are so attached to football players that they will launch personal attacks is what irks me.

The thought of an adult male who is head over heels enamoured with a football player, sickens me.

 

To claim that I benefit from a crashed hard drive is a joke.

To quote TheDean is laughable, he is one of the biggest frauds and liars on this forum.

 

Are you fully aware of who you are trying to defend in your post?

Are you aware of the perverse and juvenile nature of the personal attacks launched by TheDean and his two cohorts in their swoon over Losman?

[Beerball]

To quote TheDean is laughable, he is one of the biggest frauds and liars on this forum.

He doesn't even make the top 10. I can out lie him with one hand tied behind my back.

[The Dean]

I appauld you for staying with your opinions, a rarity on this board.

You're wrong on that particular opinion but you have conviction.

Opposing opinions do not bother me in the least.

 

Idiots that are so attached to football players that they will launch personal attacks is what irks me.

The thought of an adult male who is head over heels enamoured with a football player, sickens me.

 

To claim that I benefit from a crashed hard drive is a joke.

To quote TheDean is laughable, he is one of the biggest frauds and liars on this forum.

 

Are you fully aware of who you are trying too defend in your post?

Are you aware of the perverse nature of the personal attacks launched by TheDean and his two cohorts in their swoon over Losman?

 

 

Nice way to avoid personal attacks.

 

Even the former Edward's Arm (who I have had some MAJOR disagreement with) has stated that my posts regarding Losman came with the essential modifiers and qualifiers. I have NEVER stated that JP was unequivocally great, was sure to be great, or anything of the sort. The only liar here, is you. The hard disk crash is such a lame crutch for you, it makes you look even stupider than most here already know you are.

[Flbillsfan#1]

I appauld you for staying with your opinions, a rarity on this board.

You're wrong on that particular opinion but you have conviction.

Opposing opinions do not bother me in the least.

 

Idiots that are so attached to football players that they will launch personal attacks is what irks me.

The thought of an adult male who is head over heels enamoured with a football player, sickens me.

 

To claim that I benefit from a crashed hard drive is a joke.

To quote TheDean is laughable, he is one of the biggest frauds and liars on this forum.

 

Are you fully aware of who you are trying to defend in your post?

Are you aware of the perverse and juvenile nature of the personal attacks launched by TheDean and his two cohorts in their swoon over Losman?

Since coming to this board, I have yet to read a post by you that shows you have ANY KNOWLEDGE or insight of the game of football. You fit in well with most of the HATERS on this board. I think it is laughable that you chastise others for personal attacks & then proceed to do the same thing yourself.

[TheKing]

Nice way to avoid personal attacks.

 

Even the former Edward's Arm (who I have had some MAJOR disagreement with) has stated that my posts regarding Losman came with the essential modifiers and qualifiers. I have NEVER stated that JP was unequivocally great, was sure to be great, or anything of the sort. The only liar here, is you. The hard disk crash is such a lame crutch for you, it makes you look even stupider than most here already know you are.

Oh that has to be the weakest forum tactic there is, a reference to the old phantom "most here"

A painful to watch pathetic plea for others to come to your support.

The equivalent of ...most of you agree with me right right? am I right that you agree with me?

 

HAHAH

 

The hard drive crash is a crutch ?

It is a crutch for me, when it covers the hides of the forum brown noses, you being one of the most emboldened?

Talk about spin.

A forum hard drive crash saves the most notorious forum brown noses from their well deserved humble pie and it is in your mind a crutch for those of us that would have served you crow?

 

Nice try kid.

 

I guess all that brown nosing did buy you some shelter little man.

 

Just keep in mind that this hard drive crash to save your hide will only be good once.

But I think you can logically see that.

That is why it comes as no shock that you are treading more carefully.

So you did eat some humble pie, but not near enough for that big mouth you had.

I don't think you'll be so open with your swooning over any player or running your trap the way you were.

[300yrds]

Well first it was criticisms about the play calling when he was in there and falling on his face.

 

Then after he loses the job to Edwards he comes off with this snide garbage that "it's not Trents fault that things are the way they are".

He tacks onto that, criticizing the previous OCs and endorsing the current OC, suggesting that Edwards has an opportunity that he didn't.

With it he insinuates that he deserves to be in there but is a victim of circumstance and therefore doesn't hold any negative feeling towards Edwards.

So he's going to be generous and suck it up and be a team player.

 

What a line of self-promoting BS.

I wonder if he thinks anyone but himself believes that crap?

Yep, he is the better QB but will play along, isn't that terrific of him?

 

 

All his talk about being a team player is just a vehicle to get out his message that he is on the bench by way of circumstance, not by his own failings.

 

What he needs is a dose of reality to find out that Edwards is clearly the better QB.

 

 

That is why I want him on the field.

I'm fine with that, because I want to see him back up his big mouth.

 

 

Arent some of these things true. Was the play calling not different with Edwards than it was Losman last year. Can you blame him for calling out Fairchild? we all did. In those games can you blame JP for throwing over 60% in most of them last year. Seems like he worked in the system to me. The problem is the SYSTEM is FLAW not the athletes. We have a coaching staff who runs what they want to run, NOT to their PLAYERS STRENGTHS. Trent is the Bills future QB and maybe the better one.

 

Quick question...has TE beat anybody thats a contender, anybody based on current results(not past records)? But hey the Browns beat the Giants this year so they must be better right.

[TheKing]

Arent some of these things true. Was the play calling not different with Edwards than it was Losman last year. Can you blame him for calling out Fairchild? we all did. In those games can you blame JP for throwing over 60% in most of them last year. Seems like he worked in the system to me. The problem is the SYSTEM is FLAW not the athletes. We have a coaching staff who runs what they want to run, NOT to their PLAYERS STRENGTHS. Trent is the Bills future QB and maybe the better one.

 

Quick question...has TE beat anybody thats a contender, anybody based on current results(not past records)? But hey the Browns beat the Giants this year so they must be better right.

I haven't been impressed with Edwards in recent weeks, but he was on a run where he was consistent and making sound decisions.

Losman on the other hand has had too many opportunities already.

 

So with Edwards I'm not as sold om him as I was.

But with Losman I'm sold on the idea that he is a bust.

 

I can only say that with Edwards the defenses may have throw things at him he hadn't seen before and/or the Oline may have contributed to his slump.

That's the optimistic way to view it in terms of Edwards' potential, but I won't have blinders on.

[TheKing]

He doesn't even make the top 10. I can out lie him with one hand tied behind my back.

Hey Dean your buddy showed up!

Who would have guessed?

Just like old times.

 

Now maybe the two of you can get back to making pornographic comments about other poster's mothers or fathers.

All on behalf of the great JP Losman.

I guess that would be someything for you to be proud of.

[TheKing]

Nice way to avoid personal attacks.

 

Even the former Edward's Arm (who I have had some MAJOR disagreement with) has stated that my posts regarding Losman came with the essential modifiers and qualifiers. I have NEVER stated that JP was unequivocally great, was sure to be great, or anything of the sort. The only liar here, is you. The hard disk crash is such a lame crutch for you, it makes you look even stupider than most here already know you are.

He obviously hasn't seen what I am referring to.

Nobody can reference it now.

 

Also you are now free to carry on with this charade pretending to know what you are talking about.

But you and I both know how completely off you were on NFL QBs in general and in particular your beloved JP Losman.

 

You heart must be aching knowing that JP's days in Buffalo are winding down to an unceremonious finish.

[Bill from NYC]

Now maybe the two of you can get back to making pornographic comments about other poster's mothers or fathers.

 

That is not at all funny.

If you have issues with these guys why don't you say what you must and leave their families out of it?

[TheKing]

That is not at all funny.

If you have issues with these guys why don't you say what you must and leave their families out of it?

You must be misreading, I never made comments of that nature.

I am reminding them of their juvenile behaviour.

And I don't think it's funny in any way.

[1billsfan]

STOP already! How many practices have you been to? Let the coaches do their job. If JP was better then he would be the Man.

 

 

I feel like saying STOP already with this damn thread. I wrote this last Monday! I was still hot under the collar and now I'm caught in this twilight zone-like no win situation tonight...

 

If Trent has a huge game I will be...WRONG...and never again be allowed to share my feelings here ever again.

 

If Trent has another bad game and the Bills lose that's...well that just plain SUCKS.

 

Seriously though, what I do want is to see is Trent Edwards taking charge tonight! Leading this team tonight! Winning tonight! If he starts making turnovers in the first half and it still looks like the game is winnable at the half or mid third then I want Jauron to go to the bullpen and send in Losman. At some point you should get benched for poor play. Let's all hope that doesn't happen tonight!

[Stenbar]

Losman's done just as well against bad teams as Trent has. He's just played fewer of them. I could go through his highlights, but don't think it needs doing again. It's been done a million times before. If you missed them, it's because you tried to avoid them.

LOL..He's been in the league 5 years but your telling me has has played less bad teams than Trent..Thats beyond funny..Actually its sad you would even put that down to be memorialized..

[cale]

Trent has ruined this season with his brilliant consecutive trifecta of losing to the Dolphins, Jets and Patriots. Sorry and no offense pal, but you suck. He's clueless and needs to sit and watch Losman being given his final chance to resurrect his career as a Buffalo Bill.

 

These last three losses are so historically bad for this franchise that I don't think we here at TSW are even fully aware of the magnitude.

 

I know LABillsfan is going to give me flack and plenty of others here, but drastic times call for drastic measures. I think Trent has tossed every last bit of 5-1 cache he had with these last three abysmal games against the AFC East division. It's time to shake things up and put a QB in there that can actually get the ball to #83. If Losman fails, then give the ball to Hamden. I'm done with Edwards. You and your head coach can take a hike.

 

Wow. Thanks for the laugh. I was a JP supporter. But dude, Edwards is so much the better QB. I think it would be best for all parties concerned if JP goes elsewhere. SF maybe. At any rate, we'll be doing JP a favor by letting him go. This franchise has bigger problems than the QB position.

 

The Kelly-led Bills must be squirming watching this team. No fire whatsoever.

 

C

[marioc]

Seriously though, what I do want is to see is Trent Edwards taking charge tonight! Leading this team tonight! Winning tonight! If he starts making turnovers in the first half and it still looks like the game is winnable at the half or mid third then I want Jauron to go to the bullpen and send in Losman. At some point you should get benched for poor play. Let's all hope that doesn't happen tonight!

 

My sentiments exactly. While it's the last thing I want to see, if Trent is stinking it up it may be time to sit him for a spell. Let's pray it never happens, but if it needs to, I also pray that the coaching staff grows a pair and does what needs to be done.

[Stenbar]

I feel like saying STOP already with this damn thread. I wrote this last Monday! I was still hot under the collar and now I'm caught in this twilight zone-like no win situation tonight...

 

If Trent has a huge game I will be...WRONG...and never again be allowed to share my feelings here ever again.

 

If Trent has another bad game and the Bills lose that's...well that just plain SUCKS.

 

Seriously though, what I do want is to see is Trent Edwards taking charge tonight! Leading this team tonight! Winning tonight! If he starts making turnovers in the first half and it still looks like the game is winnable at the half or mid third then I want Jauron to go to the bullpen and send in Losman. At some point you should get benched for poor play. Let's all hope that doesn't happen tonight!

You will be allowed..In fact I will still hold you in the same regard I do now..LOL