truth on hold Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 That's the reality. Blame coaches for making player selection if you want. But what they have to work with now is simply an inferior group of players. Not sure why anyone expects this team to be really all that different from last year. Sure Trent has a little more experience, but Hardy and McKelvin are rookies, and Stroud and Mitchell are marginally above average players. So that about covers the reasons why we could have been better. But all those are overwhelmed by: - loss of best impact LB in Crowell - receiving corp worse than ever with loss of Reed and Roscoe never being the same since thumb injury - nothing serious to address tight end situation - injuries to best pass rusher (Shoebel) and starting SS Whitner - Youbooty gone for year and McGee nursing an injury Really when you add it all up not even your best coaching staff would have this team any better than 5 & 4 right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Tigre Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I think we have pretty good talent except at TE,C and DE,but that's on first string only. We really lack depth everywhere. Once we get a few injuries it becomes a below average roster. That's where we're at now,so there's really not alot for the coaches to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I disagree. We have talent. We have so much talent that we let go of players that become great players for other teams. What we have are coaches that can't coach, especially the O-line. I used to scream about Mouse McNally and his human turnstiles, but he's gone and we are not one lick better. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I disagree. We have talent. We have so much talent that we let go of players that become great players for other teams. What we have are coaches that can't coach, especially the O-line. I used to scream about Mouse McNally and his human turnstiles, but he's gone and we are not one lick better. PTR Team is talented but has zero confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 That's the reality. Blame coaches for making player selection if you want. But what they have to work with now is simply an inferior group of players. Not sure why anyone expects this team to be really all that different from last year. Sure Trent has a little more experience, but Hardy and McKelvin are rookies, and Stroud and Mitchell are marginally above average players. So that about covers the reasons why we could have been better. But all those are overwhelmed by: - loss of best impact LB in Crowell - receiving corp worse than ever with loss of Reed and Roscoe never being the same since thumb injury - nothing serious to address tight end situation - injuries to best pass rusher (Shoebel) and starting SS Whitner - Youbooty gone for year and McGee nursing an injury Really when you add it all up not even your best coaching staff would have this team any better than 5 & 4 right now. right...every year we never have any talent. I can tell you our talent is better than Miami's. I can tell you that its probably better than the Jets. I can tell you that at a lot of positions, its probably better than the Pats too---lets see, they had their backup QB who before this year hadn't started a game since HS, their 5th!!! string RB who shredded us, a secondary that has 0 impact players in it right now with the loss of Harrison, and were without their best LB in Adalius Thomas most of the game today. And yet they still found a way to create matchup problems for the Bills, and the Bills once again did not. That is the same song and dance every week it seems. Bills have the ability to create some really tough matchups on opponents(Parrish on a 3rd CB or safety, Jackson/Lynch on a LB in the slot, Evans on way subpar secondaries---like bottom 5 secondaries 2 of the last 3 weeks in Dolphins and Pats), but never do, while the Bills defense should be able to prevent offenses from completing 50 short passes in a row against us, but never can because they play 20 yards off them and aren't even in the picture half the time when the receivers catch the ball. What makes it worse is this team is actually pretty decent at stopping the run and forcing teams into 3rd and longs. Our special teams should cause matchup problems for teams, but all of a sudden Parrish refuses to return a punt, fair catching everything in sight. Talent is NOT the problem with this team. They have enough talent to certainly play better than they have been. Last year was a team with not enough talent, with 3rd stringers all over the place. Kansas City, Detroit, Oakland, Miami(yes Miami), Rams, Seahawks(mostly due to injuries), 49ers. Those are teams with not enough talent. There is a big difference between just not being good enough and being good enough and playing horrible. We are good enough and are playing horrible, which is what makes it so frustrating. We are coaching horrible. We are coaching scared. We refuse to take any chances. We have no faith in the players in any game situation(3rd and 1 passes, repeatedly punting inside the opponents 40 yard line all day, DB's playing 20 yards off the receivers). We are coaching dumb and not learning anything from previous games. Fewell has had 4 teams do the same thing to us and has watched 4 opposing defenses use various ways to prevent us from doing the same thing to them. Common sense would tell you to look at what they are doing and then implement some things, but I guess that is asking too much. I guess its also asking too much from Schonert to figure out how the opponents are getting so wide open and creating matchup problems for us on defense and to do the same things. Talent is losing games 47-3 like the Rams because you just aren't good enough. Losing 24-0 and gaining 77 total yards in the game is being not good enough like the Raiders last week. Going 1-8 and 0-9 like the Bengals and the Lions and getting blown out in a lot of those games is not being good enough. Lets stop this nonsense the Bills don't have the talent. The talent is there, it needs to be utilized better and the players need to execute better. Is there any doubt that Jeff Fisher or Bill Bellichick could take this same team and be 8-1 or 7-2 with them?? I have none. This coaching staff needs to step up and stop allowing themselves and their players to continue to accept these piss poor performances.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 No team has talent left when they are down to 3rd stringers and undrafted free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 I disagree. We have talent. We have so much talent that we let go of players that become great players for other teams. What we have are coaches that can't coach, especially the O-line. I used to scream about Mouse McNally and his human turnstiles, but he's gone and we are not one lick better. PTR Well let's compare ourselves to Jets. QB: as over rated as favre is, he's better than Edwards right now Jets +1 RB: Jones and Washington are comparable to Lynch and Jackson Jets +1 WRs: Evans and nobody are worse than Coles and Cotchery Jets +2 OLine: Faneca, Mangold and even DBrick blow away our line Jets +3 NT/DT: Jenkins blows away Stroud and Williams Jets +4 DE's: push Jets +4 Defensive Backfield: I'd give slight advantage to Jets, but let's call it a push Jets +4 Special Teams: Washington is better than Parrish and McKelvin right now, but I think our kickers slightly better, so let's call it a push Jets +4 LBs: slight advantage Bills Jets +3 Tight End: push, neither getting much out of that position Jets +3 So with this simple comparison you see Jets have a lot more talent than Bills. So why were so many thinking Bills would just show up and win last week? Why were Bills even favored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Team is talented but has zero confidence. exactly, and the coaches have silently but oh so effectively made sure the players know this by their in-game actions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Team is talented but has zero confidence. Yep. And that comes from the leadership. Dickie J and that conservative, play not to lose/crap your pants "oh no here comes the Patriots" style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 No team has talent left when they are down to 3rd stringers and undrafted free agents. apparently the Pats still do, cause every year when their 7th and 8th string CB's are starting and they have a 5th string RB piling up 100 yards rushing, they keep on winning.... maybe its just that their coaches know how to coach to their players strengths and limit their players weaknesses better than others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Well let's compare ourselves to Jets. QB: as over rated as favre is, he's better than Edwards right now Jets +1 RB: Jones and Washington are comparable to Lynch and Jackson Jets +1 WRs: Evans and nobody are worse than Coles and Cotchery Jets +2 OLine: Faneca, Mangold and even DBrick blow away our line Jets +3 NT/DT: Jenkins blows away Stroud and Williams Jets +4 DE's: push Jets +4 Defensive Backfield: I'd give slight advantage to Jets, but let's call it a push Jets +4 Special Teams: Washington is better than Parrish and McKelvin right now, but I think our kickers slightly better, so let's call it a push Jets +4 LBs: slight advantage Bilsl Jets +3 So with this simple comparison you see Jets have a lot more talent than Bills. So why were so many thinking Bills would just show up and win last week? Why were Bills even favored? Ohh Ohh I know, because the ones with the homer glasses are not a very bright bunch. It's great to be optimistic but at some point reality needs to set in and when it doesn't, well that's where the not so bright bunch with the homer glasses come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 right...every year we never have any talent. I can tell you our talent is better than Miami's. I can tell you that its probably better than the Jets. I can tell you that at a lot of positions, its probably better than the Pats too---lets see, they had their backup QB who before this year hadn't started a game since HS, their 5th!!! string RB who shredded us, a secondary that has 0 impact players in it right now with the loss of Harrison, and were without their best LB in Adalius Thomas most of the game today. And yet they still found a way to create matchup problems for the Bills, and the Bills once again did not. That is the same song and dance every week it seems. Bills have the ability to create some really tough matchups on opponents(Parrish on a 3rd CB or safety, Jackson/Lynch on a LB in the slot, Evans on way subpar secondaries---like bottom 5 secondaries 2 of the last 3 weeks in Dolphins and Pats), but never do, while the Bills defense should be able to prevent offenses from completing 50 short passes in a row against us, but never can because they play 20 yards off them and aren't even in the picture half the time when the receivers catch the ball. What makes it worse is this team is actually pretty decent at stopping the run and forcing teams into 3rd and longs. Our special teams should cause matchup problems for teams, but all of a sudden Parrish refuses to return a punt, fair catching everything in sight. Talent is NOT the problem with this team. They have enough talent to certainly play better than they have been. Last year was a team with not enough talent, with 3rd stringers all over the place. Kansas City, Detroit, Oakland, Miami(yes Miami), Rams, Seahawks(mostly due to injuries), 49ers. Those are teams with not enough talent. There is a big difference between just not being good enough and being good enough and playing horrible. We are good enough and are playing horrible, which is what makes it so frustrating. We are coaching horrible. We are coaching scared. We refuse to take any chances. We have no faith in the players in any game situation(3rd and 1 passes, repeatedly punting inside the opponents 40 yard line all day, DB's playing 20 yards off the receivers). We are coaching dumb and not learning anything from previous games. Fewell has had 4 teams do the same thing to us and has watched 4 opposing defenses use various ways to prevent us from doing the same thing to them. Common sense would tell you to look at what they are doing and then implement some things, but I guess that is asking too much. I guess its also asking too much from Schonert to figure out how the opponents are getting so wide open and creating matchup problems for us on defense and to do the same things. Talent is losing games 47-3 like the Rams because you just aren't good enough. Losing 24-0 and gaining 77 total yards in the game is being not good enough like the Raiders last week. Going 1-8 and 0-9 like the Bengals and the Lions and getting blown out in a lot of those games is not being good enough. Lets stop this nonsense the Bills don't have the talent. The talent is there, it needs to be utilized better and the players need to execute better. Is there any doubt that Jeff Fisher or Bill Bellichick could take this same team and be 8-1 or 7-2 with them?? I have none. This coaching staff needs to step up and stop allowing themselves and their players to continue to accept these piss poor performances.... This is the best post I have read in ages on here. I totally agree. Our coaches have no confidence that we can dominate anyone. Not to go for a first down on 4th and 3 before the half was just ridiculous. Weren't we on the 39 yard line? We can tie the game on that possession and we gave up the ball. And wasted a timeout instead of punting with time left on the play clock. This is terrible coaching staff, that I believe has lost the heart and soul of its players!!! Jeff Fisher is tremendous. He knows what he wants from every player on the roster, and expects nothing less. Jauron has no verve going with the players to squeeze everything they have out of them. Why isn't Steve Johnson playing? The guy has talent and hasn't gotten a chance. Where was Derek Fine today? It is absurd. Our offense is as bad as last years. We have no game plan to attack any team. On 2nd and goal and third and goal, why didn't we throw to James Hardy? Why did we even draft James Hardy if we don't and won't throw to him? Why does Chris Ellis look like he has no idea how to pass rush? Than again, why does Chris Kelsay look the same in his sixth year in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Team is talented but has zero confidence. This is the perfect statement to sum it all up for today. The previous 2 losses were tough, but it was'nt for lack of effort. Today the Bills looked lost & tentative. I did not once see any real sense of urgency or desire to win today The Bills have talent, but I think the psyche of this team is a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Well let's compare ourselves to Jets. QB: as over rated as favre is, he's better than Edwards right now Jets +1 RB: Jones and Washington are comparable to Lynch and Jackson Jets +1 WRs: Evans and nobody are worse than Coles and Cotchery Jets +2 OLine: Faneca, Mangold and even DBrick blow away our line Jets +3 NT/DT: Jenkins blows away Stroud and Williams Jets +4 DE's: push Jets +4 Defensive Backfield: I'd give slight advantage to Jets, but let's call it a push Jets +4 Special Teams: Washington is better than Parrish and McKelvin right now, but I think our kickers slightly better, so let's call it a push Jets +4 LBs: slight advantage Bills Jets +3 Tight End: push, neither getting much out of that position Jets +3 So with this simple comparison you see Jets have a lot more talent than Bills. So why were so many thinking Bills would just show up and win last week? Why were Bills even favored? You still are misunderstanding your own words. Talent. Equals Potential---how good these players SHOULD be under equal circumstances. Are you saying that Bill Bellichick or Jeff Fisher could take this same Bills team and they still would only be 5-4? I highly, highly doubt it. Talent is not the same as how a player is playing right now. Those are 2 totally different things. You seem to think that talent means if a player sucks right now, he just sucks. I think it depends on how he is being utilized, his level of confidence, and other players on the team. That in no way tells me how talented a player is. If Adrian Petersen is held to 10 yards on 7 carries in a game, does that mean he has no talent because he sucked today---likely because the other team loaded up to stop him? No, it just means their gameplan didn't work today. Right now, we are having way too many days when the Bills gameplans aren't working---probably because they have been the same gameplan for the last 5 weeks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 apparently the Pats still do, cause every year when their 7th and 8th string CB's are starting and they have a 5th string RB piling up 100 yards rushing, they keep on winning.... maybe its just that their coaches know how to coach to their players strengths and limit their players weaknesses better than others... Its called scheme! The Pats could anybody including Sam Aiken in the offense and would be an all star. The Bills could put Moss in their offense and he would starve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 This team read their press clippings before the Miami game and believed how good they were becoming, and got beat. Its up to the coaches to get their confidence back or the wheels will be off in the next few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 This team read their press clippings before the Miami game and believed how good they were becoming, and got beat. Its up to the coaches to get their confidence back or the wheels will be off in the next few games. they just came off today...coaches need to stop the car and send it in for repairs before it gets totaled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 You still are misunderstanding your own words. Talent. Equals Potential---how good these players SHOULD be under equal circumstances. Are you saying that Bill Bellichick or Jeff Fisher could take this same Bills team and they still would only be 5-4? I highly, highly doubt it. Talent is not the same as how a player is playing right now. Those are 2 totally different things. You seem to think that talent means if a player sucks right now, he just sucks. I think it depends on how he is being utilized, his level of confidence, and other players on the team. That in no way tells me how talented a player is. If Adrian Petersen is held to 10 yards on 7 carries in a game, does that mean he has no talent because he sucked today---likely because the other team loaded up to stop him? No, it just means their gameplan didn't work today. Right now, we are having way too many days when the Bills gameplans aren't working---probably because they have been the same gameplan for the last 5 weeks.... If you're game planning against Bills, who keeps you up at night? Evans on offense, and it's easy to double him. And then what? Nothing. Same for defense: what player does the opposing offense have to make sure they contain? No one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 How about the titans? Lendale White and the rookie RB. Jeff Fisher's D has always been there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 This is the perfect statement to sum it all up for today. The previous 2 losses were tough, but it was'nt for lack of effort. Today the Bills looked lost & tentative. I did not once see any real sense of urgency or desire to win today The Bills have talent, but I think the psyche of this team is a mess. You bring up a really good point and one that's worthy of its own thread: Bills psyche and how to turn it around. You see I think if they realized from a talent perspective they're underdogs against most teams they play, then they'd look at it as a positive that they've somehow managed to get to 5 & 4 and still have a chance. To me, that's inspiring. But this fallacy that we are more talented than most, when we lose, just leads to a sense of disappoint and failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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