reddogblitz Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 The o-line is the source of the problem. The couldn't move a VW Rabbit parked in neutral. This seems to be the consensus on here. I'm not so sure though. Last year we had pretty much the same line and ML ran for over 1000 yards and won rookie of the year honors. What's changed? Did these guys forget how to block? Did ML decide that dancing would be more effective than bulling guys over? The offensive coordinator is different. Maybe the plays we're running this year aren't as well designed to use our OLs strenghts. Maybe the blocking schemes are different and not as effective. Don't know. Just wondering ...
apulshunny Posted November 25, 2008 Author Posted November 25, 2008 O-line sucks AND, when given the option, he chooses to run out of bounds instead of lowering his shoulder. I have yet to see a running back break a tackle out of bounds. However, when coached properly, that can be fixed. Are you saying the coaches will teach him how to break tackles out of bounds?
apulshunny Posted November 25, 2008 Author Posted November 25, 2008 I'm highly articulate but I cannot offer you an explanation because I do not see Lynch as a top RB in the NFL I did not ask why he's a top RB. I asked why he was valued. Based on other threads, you would think he's a top RB as other members of the wall would not trade him for all the rice in China (seemingly). Other than the no quit style, I wonder what is so appealing about the guy. Breaking a run occasionally gives fans hope that at any point you'll witness a nice play. When ML gets the ball I expect a few yards and multiple tacklers before going down, but not really the expectation of a breakaway run.
apulshunny Posted November 25, 2008 Author Posted November 25, 2008 Look at ML's and Fred's numbers side by side. Do you notice a difference? Ya, me either. If some people think Marshawn is a bust then so is Fred. I had no intention of enshrining Fred anytime soon either. That said, I did get to see the Cleveland game where ML played well, but Jaws identifies the desire to wait for the big play too often in ML. That was helpful (as others have written here as well). On the other hand, Fred does show more ability to get through the cracks that ML just does not seem to be able to do.
VJ91 Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Is there an articulate member who can offer some comparisons and what makes ML so valued? I don't know if I qualify as articulate, but I'll give it a try. The one obvious comparison to those other backs you mentioned is the offensive lines they run behind. Buffalo has the very worst run-blocking offensive line for their size I can ever remember watching in my over 40 years as a Bills fan. Lynch is breaking tackles before he gets to the line in far too many carries for any running back to have to deal with. Secondly, how many carries do those other backs get? I don't care to look it up, but my bet is they all get over 20 every game. Turk makes sure Lynch gets 20 or less every game. Now he has Jackson getting almost as many carries as Marshawn, and he always makes sure the passes are equal to the runs. Despite his first round status, Lynch is not used like a feature back in Shoenerts' offense. Finally, it's not his speed that people admire. It's his amazing strength and ability to break tackles. If those slobs in front of him had been blocking the way they have finally begun blocking the past two weeks, Lynch would be right up there with those other backs in yards per carry, if not total yards. Like I said above, Marshawn just doesn't get the number of carries to compete for total yard rushing. Ask Dick Jauron why on that one.
thewildrabbit Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 This seems to be the consensus on here. I'm not so sure though. Last year we had pretty much the same line and ML ran for over 1000 yards and won rookie of the year honors. What's changed? Did these guys forget how to block? Did ML decide that dancing would be more effective than bulling guys over? The offensive coordinator is different. Maybe the plays we're running this year aren't as well designed to use our OLs strenghts. Maybe the blocking schemes are different and not as effective. Don't know. Just wondering ... Umm no, AD( Adrian Peterson ) won rookie of the year last year not ML. The main difference between the Bills offense last year and this year is simple.Last year the bills had one of the best veteran O-line coaches in pro football in Jim McNally. He retired and was replaced by Sean Kugler who was promoted to O-line coach from assistant o-line coach. Last year the Bills had a decent offensive line,even with McNally. This year they are downright horrid some games. And the Bills do have a new OC,although he is a better play caller in most situations he still calls shotgun plays way to often and disregards the running game. You guys with this ML dancing crap get me... I just loved the way he 'danced' his way into the end zone thru 12 browns defenders on that Mon night game. Honestly,I'll bet more then half the NFL teams wished they had a player like Marshawn Lynch.
Beerball Posted November 25, 2008 Posted November 25, 2008 Are you saying the coaches will teach him how to break tackles out of bounds? What I think he's saying is that Marshawn tends to run OOB vs. lowering his shoulder. (I don't happen to agree with this) He then goes on to say that proper coaching can break Marshawn of this tendency. The part about breaking tackles OOB is sarcasm.
StupidNation Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 You guys with this ML dancing crap get me... I just loved the way he 'danced' his way into the end zone thru 12 browns defenders on that Mon night game.Honestly,I'll bet more then half the NFL teams wished they had a player like Marshawn Lynch. Uh, he dances for no gains all the time. He only averaged over 3 ypc 2 or 3 times a seasons before halftime. If teams had a choice and said Marshawn for a 1st rounder and his salary I can only find 2 teams that might be interested at this point of his career, and that's stretching it. He does nothing that a lot of fill-in-the-blanks can't do themselves. Let me re-phrase the situation... if Marshawn was a free-agent how many teams would he play as starter without splitting carries? Name them...
todd Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 He also shares lots of carries with Fred Jackson. And that's a good thing. We have a fantastic RB tandem. I live in SD and do not get out enough to see many Bills games. From what I have seen the line has had troubles for years, but great backs have found a way to make SOME plays on bad teams. I've just not seen a burst from ML in his two years. I love his drive and his no-quit effort, but I do not really see any burst. Am I missing something? I read another thread about him and read members who love the guy without any explanation. Just that they prefer him over Chris Johnson, Matt Forte and Darren McFadden. Based on what I've seen, I don't see what the attraction is. Is there an articulate member who can offer some comparisons and what makes ML so valued?
YOOOOOO Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 Uh, he dances for no gains all the time. He only averaged over 3 ypc 2 or 3 times a seasons before halftime. If teams had a choice and said Marshawn for a 1st rounder and his salary I can only find 2 teams that might be interested at this point of his career, and that's stretching it. He does nothing that a lot of fill-in-the-blanks can't do themselves. Let me re-phrase the situation... if Marshawn was a free-agent how many teams would he play as starter without splitting carries? Name them... Lol only 2?? cmon now Browns, Bengals, Broncos, Eagles, Lions, Cards, Seahawks Your hate for Marshawn is unreal dude...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 His troubles are easily explained. He plays for the Buffalo Bills. Staying positive: Hopefully, we get 2-3 more decent seasons out of him before his body falls apart under the wicked beating of countless dump-offs.
Hossage Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 Marshawn has improved this year and over this season. He dances less. He seems to be able to run off tackle and cutback better now, whereas before he just didnt get that concept. He is a little stronger than last year, and he runs harder now. It is like he has learned to do all the things that Jackson does well. Lynch is slow. It takes him four strides to cover five yards. Some games he plays noticeably harder than others. Whereas last year I thought he was slightly below average for a starter, now I would call him average. I have waxed eloquently in the past about lynch. We could use a better every down power type of back, and use jackson like philadelphia uses westbrook
thewildrabbit Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 Uh, he dances for no gains all the time. He only averaged over 3 ypc 2 or 3 times a seasons before halftime. If teams had a choice and said Marshawn for a 1st rounder and his salary I can only find 2 teams that might be interested at this point of his career, and that's stretching it. He does nothing that a lot of fill-in-the-blanks can't do themselves. Let me re-phrase the situation... if Marshawn was a free-agent how many teams would he play as starter without splitting carries? Name them... Look 'Stupid Nation it figures you would complain about one of the only bright spots for the Bills the last few games.Hate ML all you want. I could care less what your moronic opinion is.The simple fact is I'm darn glad he is a Buffalo Bill and so are many other people. IF the Bills were to part with ML for some reason.. Right now Lynch would be starting for the Patriots and he would get 1400 yards this season easily. The Pats front office is upset at Laurence Marhoney because he avoids contact,something ML doesn't do. Even if LM were healthy Lynch would start over him.The Pats took a nobody from nowhere and he got 100 yards on the bills,I would really not like to see what Lynch would do against the Bills D. Free agent, definitely Denver would love the guy right about now,another 1400+ season..and most likely propel them far into the playoffs He would start in Seattle,Tampa Bay,Arizona,Detroit and Cincy. Pittsburgh,Philly,New Orleans,Washington,Oakland all have really good backs but they can't stay healthy,so all those teams would give him a long look. Be grateful the Bills have such an outstanding talented running back,he showed what he can do against the browns and Chiefs and will continue to play great if they will utilize him properly and use Play action plays instead of constant shotguns. The offensive line finally started to play decently and it showed with ML getting 118 yards on the ground with 23 carries and another 58 yards receiving against Cleveland.He also did very well against the Chiefs Quote from Yahoo: Tue, Nov 25 RB Marshawn Lynch rushed for 79 yards on 20 carries in Sunday's laugher over Kansas City, and he is beginning to get into a serious groove. He's finally getting more repetitions rushing and receiving from the coaching staff and is responding to the workload. He's tied for the team lead in catches with Lee Evans at 42. (Yahoo! Sports) Read the article by Allen Wilson in the Two Bills Drive media section titled :Bills backs live up to ‘beast’ reputation. a snippet-Lynch carries Hali and LB Rocky Boiman 5 yards before going down. Total gain: 5 yards. Yards after contact: 5. says it all
jarthur31 Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 I live in SD and do not get out enough to see many Bills games. From what I have seen the line has had troubles for years, but great backs have found a way to make SOME plays on bad teams. I've just not seen a burst from ML in his two years. I love his drive and his no-quit effort, but I do not really see any burst. Am I missing something? I read another thread about him and read members who love the guy without any explanation. Just that they prefer him over Chris Johnson, Matt Forte and Darren McFadden. Based on what I've seen, I don't see what the attraction is. Is there an articulate member who can offer some comparisons and what makes ML so valued? It's obvious you haven't seen any Bills' games. The O-line is brutal; they suck so badly they should call themselves the Buffalo Hoovers. Despite what you think, it's not Lynch at all because Fred isn't doing any better. Check they yards/carry and yards/game stats out---eerily similar. So that dispels the notion that only 1 of our RB's is to blame. The heaviest line in football can't move their opponent 1 freakin yard when it absolutely freakin has to!
apulshunny Posted December 28, 2008 Author Posted December 28, 2008 I started that thread you refered to regarding Chris Johnson, Matt Forte and Darren McFadden for the purpose of trying to see how fellow Bills fans felt when comparing ML to this years 1st rounders and a middle 2nd rounder (Forte)Responses ranged from trading ME for a bag of balls and calling it the worst post of the week etc. I am a diehard Bills fan but I dont keep blinders on. I see ML as "unbeastly" a middle of the pack player unworthy of a 1st rnd pick. Alot of members refuse to acknowledge what their eyes are seeing. Oh well............. Which is largely why I started this thread instead of adding to yours. I did not see the appeal of ML based on what I've seen so far. Fred Jackson seems to find holes with the same OL, so I don't think it as easy as just saying it is the OL.
Recommended Posts