JAMIEBUF12 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 i can ,he only had 14 carries today......it seems to be a trend too.every game he gets less than 20 touches.
BuffaloBud Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 The o-line is the source of the problem. The couldn't move a VW Rabbit parked in neutral.
dave mcbride Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I live in SD and do not get out enough to see many Bills games. From what I have seen the line has had troubles for years, but great backs have found a way to make SOME plays on bad teams. I've just not seen a burst from ML in his two years. I love his drive and his no-quit effort, but I do not really see any burst. Am I missing something? I read another thread about him and read members who love the guy without any explanation. Just that they prefer him over Chris Johnson, Matt Forte and Darren McFadden. Based on what I've seen, I don't see what the attraction is. Is there an articulate member who can offer some comparisons and what makes ML so valued? He was their best player on offense today. Aside from the first running play, he was hit behind the LOS on virtually every play. It was brutal. Yet he still managed 3+ ypc.
Big Hurt Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Unfortunately, it's simple answer why Marshawn has so many troubles. #1. The offensive line does not give Lynch many opportunities. Run-offense is terrible. #2. Buffalo has a very predictable run-game. A defense can stack the box and plug the small holes the offensive line creates. For this reason, Lynch constantly has runs between 1-4 yards about 95% of the time. #3. Lynch is not a game-breaker. He dances too much. Part of the reason is that he is trying to survive with his poor line. The other part is that Lynch hasn't probably had his running style corrected because of his natural talent. He had a strong offensive line at Cal, and let's be honest...other than USC and occasionally Oregon, the PAC-10 isn't known for strong defenses. The PAC-10 produces great offenses, so Lynch probably isn't use to tough defenses. Lynch is a talented running back, but he isn't or won't be a top 20 running back of all-time. Expect Lynch to play 8-10 seasons. He'll have two-four 1,000 yard seasons. The rest he'll have between 600-999 yards. Expect him to finish somewhere between 7,500-10,000 yards. Really good running back, but he won't be great. That's the difference between Lynch and Peterson. Peterson has game-breaker potential; Lynch doesn't. Peterson has a better 0-line as well. Also the Bills need to call his number more. Turk needs to call a more balance attack. He needs to give Lynch at least 25 carries per game. Nightcrawler I don't know how you can make that prediction. He is a big back that runs like Marion Barber and Jones Drew. Give him the same offensive line as the dallas and Jacksonville, we will see how many games he can break a 100 yards. NFL Live had a nice segment about Lynch this morning. Saying he dont hit the holes like he should, he's always bouncing outside to try and break a long one and that he dances too much in the backfield. When they were first talking about it, I honestly thought they were talking about Willis McGahee.....didnt know it was about Lynch till I turned around. Tell me how he is supposed to run when the opposing defense constantly playing on his side of the LOS? Of course he had to dance around, he was trying to dodge his offense linemen when they were falling backwards. Watching the game today I thought he did well especially late in the game. Somehow the coaches did not stick with him. That's not his problem.
Paup 1995MVP Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I think Marshawn is tremendous. Our line almost never makes a hole for him. We get absolutely no push off of the ball. And to run the ball well you have to be able to mix in a real passing game. We have stopped trying to throw the ball down the field. Our offense has changed minimally if any since last season. I see no crossing patterns 15-20 yards down the field, no seam routes. We have not thrown deep in weeks. There is no room to run when the defense continually puts 8 men in the box. I feel bad for ML. He is a great talent that is being wasted behind just an atrocious O line-probably the worst in the league at run blocking, a very nervous QB, very mediocre receivers and an abysmal coaching staff.
Bmwolf21 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Say what you want about Willis but he was almost always a downhill runner. Lynch is like a lateral, shuffle step runner (whatever that is!) Ummm....what?!? While I agree that Lynch has gotten away from his bread and butter - hitting the hole hard and running guys over - McGahee was the biggest behind the line outside of Barry Sanders. His last 16-20 games in Buffalo - excluding the games against the Jets - were spent hesitating, shuffling, and trying to pick his spots. The only time I remember McGahee regularly hitting the hole hard and running downhill was when he was trying to claim the no.1 RB spot and push Henry to the bench. After that he hung up the stiff arm and started avoiding contact and looking to bounce it outside as much as possible.
NewEra Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 But those two generated a lot of yards..... lots? they didnt split carries and ran for the same amount of yards. henry had one year in which he had "lots" of yards, an amount marshawn may have gotten if he hadnt gotten hurt last year. The O-line coach needs to go. We have to find out if its the players or the scheme. we cant cut our O-line (or can we), so the coach has got to go
YOOOOOO Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Ummm....what?!? While I agree that Lynch has gotten away from his bread and butter - hitting the hole hard and running guys over - He has definately gotten away from that...I think last season he was critized for not letting the hole develop...so this season he has been more patient and it has cost him....THis OLINE cant get a push and they cant get off blocks either.... whens the last time youve seen our OLine get loose and get a helmet on a LB consistently??? The Pats OL owned POZ off the LOS all day today.... The Bills OL doesnt do that at all....
Bmwolf21 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 He has definately gotten away from that...I think last season he was critized for not letting the hole develop...so this season he has been more patient and it has cost him....THis OLINE cant get a push and they cant get off blocks either.... whens the last time youve seen our OLine get loose and get a helmet on a LB consistently??? The Pats OL owned POZ off the LOS all day today.... The Bills OL doesnt do that at all.... Good post, and I agree. It might be a little bit of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" for Marshawn, but at some point this OL crap has got to stop and these overpaid turnstiles have got to start opening some holes for the running game.
YOOOOOO Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Good post, and I agree. It might be a little bit of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" for Marshawn, but at some point this OL crap has got to stop and these overpaid turnstiles have got to start opening some holes for the running game. I think the blame for the lack of running...can be shared by everyone....Marshawn, the line, the playcalling, and Trent Edwards..... now I dont know if Edwards has the ability to audible on every play....but there was two consecutive plays in this game that was mindboggling that he didnt change the play at the line of scrimmage....even the accouncers commented on it.... 1st and 10...we spread it out....there in a two deep zone package...with the nickel in....instead of running...we pass... inc pass 2nd and 10 the nickel comes off....they stack the box...with a single deep safety....7 in the box....we run... but then you see the audible on the goaline from the 4 yard line...to a run off tackle...??? So really i have no idea whats going on...
StupidNation Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Here are the problems with Marshawn: -He bounced it outside without the requisite speed when a play begins to break-down. He plays like he's still in college and it doesn't work. -He side-steps in these large steps that aren't quick enough to be fooled by anyone behind the line of scrimmage -He doesn't run to a hole and tries to hit the home-run instead of the small gains -Lacks vision when holes open Yes, the line hasn't blocked well for him, but any RB in the NFL would run well with a great O-line. All of the good RBs do it, and the great ones make their yards. He'll turn out to be average. The reason why so many people are pulling for him is he is a 1st rounder and that means there is a lot of excitement about him, and people have bought his jersey. I think he's got a great spirit, but very rarely is a RB worth a 1st rounder unless they have extreme talent to be a game-breaker.
keepthefaith Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 and a quarterback who can't throw more than 5 yards, so the whole defense cheats up tp the line And the defense knows when the Bills are running so Marchawn and the O-line are outnumbered at the hole.
TheKing Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 i can ,he only had 14 carries today......it seems to be a trend too.every game he gets less than 20 touches. I wouldn't even give him 14 carries with the way he runs. He'd be on the bench watching fred jackson.
TheKing Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Here are the problems with Marshawn: -He bounced it outside without the requisite speed when a play begins to break-down. He plays like he's still in college and it doesn't work. -He side-steps in these large steps that aren't quick enough to be fooled by anyone behind the line of scrimmage -He doesn't run to a hole and tries to hit the home-run instead of the small gains -Lacks vision when holes open Yes, the line hasn't blocked well for him, but any RB in the NFL would run well with a great O-line. All of the good RBs do it, and the great ones make their yards. He'll turn out to be average. The reason why so many people are pulling for him is he is a 1st rounder and that means there is a lot of excitement about him, and people have bought his jersey. I think he's got a great spirit, but very rarely is a RB worth a 1st rounder unless they have extreme talent to be a game-breaker. I agree 100%, especially with what is in bold. The only thing I would add to the list is character issues.
TheKing Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I live in SD and do not get out enough to see many Bills games. From what I have seen the line has had troubles for years, but great backs have found a way to make SOME plays on bad teams. I've just not seen a burst from ML in his two years. I love his drive and his no-quit effort, but I do not really see any burst. Am I missing something? I read another thread about him and read members who love the guy without any explanation. Just that they prefer him over Chris Johnson, Matt Forte and Darren McFadden. Based on what I've seen, I don't see what the attraction is. Is there an articulate member who can offer some comparisons and what makes ML so valued? I'm highly articulate but I cannot offer you an explanation because I do not see Lynch as a top RB in the NFL
Big Turk Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 NFL Live had a nice segment about Lynch this morning. Saying he dont hit the holes like he should, he's always bouncing outside to try and break a long one and that he dances too much in the backfield. When they were first talking about it, I honestly thought they were talking about Willis McGahee.....didnt know it was about Lynch till I turned around. did they mean before or after he dodged the 2 DLinemen 3 yards into the backfield on every other play? I have never seen more running plays get completely blown up than I have by this group of players....usually the interior of the line...
Big Turk Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I am watching todays game again,paying particular attention to Marshawn---here is an unbiased look at his runs today. here is what I have seen so far: 2nd drive, 2nd run: Wilfork shoves Chambers back into the hole and forces Lynch to stop and stutter step and he gains a few yards. 2nd drive, 1st down run after Parrish catch: Lynch runs into a tiny hole and is engulfed by 4 Patriots. 3rd drive, 1st down run after Schouman catch: Lynch runs hard into the hole and gains 4 yards before being shut down. 3rd drive next play: Lynch is hit 2 yards deep in the backfield by Adalius Thomas, who manhandles Preston again, stiff arms him, bounces outside, stiff arms another defender, then outruns Jerrod Mayo to the corner to gain 4 yards...Thomas blew up the hole Lynch was supposed to run thru.... 3rd drive, 1st and goal play: Lynch takes a direct snap in the wildcat formation and runs thru the hole, and is met by Wilfork and Vrabel who are unblocked, Lynch carries them for another 3 yards. Gain of 7. 3rd drive, 2nd and goal play: Lynch hits the hole hard---Chambers is shoved back a few yards---again, another DT is shoved directly into the hole by Preston instead of backwards, and is joined by 2 LB's as well. No gain. 3rd drive, 3rd and goal play: Lynch gets the handoff running around left end---4 NE players meet him at the line untouched with no Bills blockers in sight---no hesitation by Lynch, just nowhere to run.... 1st 2nd half run: Lynch runs left for 2 yards, but no hole was created---basically the NE line just went back 2 yards but moved down the line and engulfed Lynch.... 2nd half run 2nd and 10---announcer says Pats are looking for the run before the play, 8 men in box---Lynch runs left, but is met 2 yards deep in the backfield by Wilfork, who badly beat an attempted double team block by Chambers and Preston, and Peters also gave a half-hearted shove to an oncoming LB who finished off the play. 2 yard loss. 4th quarter run after the NE fumble---1st and 10: Lynch takes a draw from Edwards and attempts to run up the middle. Hole is closed by Wilson shoving Preston to his left and Seymour shoving Peters to his right. Lynch bounces outside of Seymour and runs for 8 yards... next play: Lynch runs up the middle, but has to avoid Seymour who crashes down hard and blows by Peters, meeting Lynch 2-3 yards deep in the backfield. Lynch avoids Seymour and gains 5 yards running to the vacated spot where Seymour and Peters had been.... next play: Lynch gets the handoff, but the Pats just shuffle right with the Bills line and Lynch has to wait for a hole to open. Line is pushing left, Lynch runs around left end for about 4 yards. These are 12 of the runs I had, since I missed the opening drive because of Tennessee-Chicago game being on. 5 times opposing linemen were in the backfield: Preston was beaten twice. Chambers thrice(attempted double team help counts on Prestons whiff), and Peters once. 1 time, 4 members of the Pats were totally unblocked at the line of scrimmage and swarmed Lynch. a few other times, the Bills managed to shove the Pats players back a few yards, but got no movement sideways to open any kind of hole. The Pats players just kinda waited there for Lynch and then tackled him when he got to them. There was not a single time today I saw any gaping hole for Lynch to run thru. Most of the time he was either dodging players in the backfield, or had to deal with unblocked defenders. If he did manage to gain a few yards, he was quickly tackled because the OL is completely ineffective at blocking the DL out of the way and then continuing on to block the LB, which is a hallmark of any effective running team. In most cases, the OL never got far enough downfield to effectively block a LB, and in the cases they did, the LBs just ran right around them. I did not see much hesitation from Lynch, other than the draw play where he had to dodge Seymour who had just blown by Peters and crashed thru the middle of the line. He stopped and sidestepped him. IMHO, Lynch never has a chance on most of his runs, mainly because of poor blocking on the interior of the line(Center and Right guard). Walker and Dockery looked OK to me, but they got very little backward movement. They didn't get beat, but they basically didn't open up much room either.... This looks pretty similar to most games to me---Lynch having to dodge defenders crashing thru the middle of the OL in the backfield, or running thru small holes and then being engulfed by LBs cause the OL can't disengage from the DL and get to the LBs, so they have free shots at our RBs coming thru.... until we can get to the LBs and stop getting the center of our line blown up, we are not going to be a very effective running team----you have to be able to get the DL out of the way and get to the LBs for any type of big holes to open up, and we are very ineffective at doing it.... way too many times there is a solid line of 10 bodies along the line, with defenders plugging every hole....
jarthur31 Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I live in SD and do not get out enough to see many Bills games. From what I have seen the line has had troubles for years, but great backs have found a way to make SOME plays on bad teams. I've just not seen a burst from ML in his two years. I love his drive and his no-quit effort, but I do not really see any burst. Am I missing something? I read another thread about him and read members who love the guy without any explanation. Just that they prefer him over Chris Johnson, Matt Forte and Darren McFadden. Based on what I've seen, I don't see what the attraction is. Is there an articulate member who can offer some comparisons and what makes ML so valued? Look at ML's and Fred's numbers side by side. Do you notice a difference? Ya, me either. The line up front is horrible and very fat and can't move anybody. Two tries to get 1 yard and they fail miserably every time. The bottom line is they have no talent and need to be replaced ASAP! Most particularly at C and RG. If some people think Marshawn is a bust then so is Fred. Our line can't engage anybody 1 on 1 and move them a couple of yards downfield and now their pass protection is being exploited.
Big Turk Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Look at ML's and Fred's numbers side by side. Do you notice a difference? Ya, me either. The line up front is horrible and very fat and can't move anybody. Two tries to get 1 yard and they fail miserably every time. The bottom line is they have no talent and need to be replaced ASAP! Most particularly at C and RG. If some people think Marshawn is a bust then so is Fred. Our line can't engage anybody 1 on 1 and move them a couple of yards downfield and now their pass protection is being exploited. I broke down every run by Lynch right above, and this post basically sums it up---the RG and C gets blown up on half the run plays which means Lynch is dodging DL 2 or 3 yards deep in the backfield, and the other times, the DL stays 0-4 yards from the LOs and never allows the OL to disengage and get to the LBs, causing 3 or 4 LBs depending on the scheme to be totally free to mop up and fill any potential hole...
TheChimp Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Why we still have the same O-Line coach at this point in the season is a testament to the futility of ownership.
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