Jerry Sullivan: Class of ’08 little help for the Bills

[TheBlackMamba]

http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns...ory/483528.html

 

Thank u to everyone who said that my thread yesterday was "dumb" and "stupid"...

[Beerball]

http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns...ory/483528.html

 

Thank u to everyone who said that my thread yesterday was "dumb" and "stupid"...

Dammit, you're right.

 

Is it still to early to call

Leodis McKelvin, James Hardy and Chris Ellis busts?

 

Jerry agrees 100% with you.

There are very few busts this early in the game.

 

Of course everyone is disappointed with lack of production from those 3, but to use the B word at this point in time is stuupid.

[Lori]

Let's see:

"So it’s fair to say this group has been slow to develop."

 

and

 

"In time, this draft class might be a good one. But the organization expected more. Maybe they’re a year away — like the team as a whole."

 

... equals calling them busts, which presumes that they never will develop? Not on my planet, and certainly not eight games into their rookie season.

[keepthefaith]

http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns...ory/483528.html

 

Thank u to everyone who said that my thread yesterday was "dumb" and "stupid"...

 

Sullivan has poor credibility in the minds of many Bills fans.

[Bill from NYC]

Your thread wasn't dumb. The title probably was off in that it was a bit superfluous, because it really is early to label them as "busts." C'mon, 8 games?

 

Looking at the 3 picks, imo 2 of them were well advised. Our defensive ends this season range from injured to pitiful. Ellis is said to have ability to rush the passer. Makes sense to me. Obviously, we are not prepared to comment on his play because we have barely seen him.

 

This team needed a big receiver. Not only that, the contract status of Evans was uncertain. Also, who knew that Josh Reed would have such a strong season? Now he is injured and the need at wideout becomes even more pronounced. Hardy hasn't put up numbers but that doesn't mean that he cannot. Looking at his off field incidents, my suspicion is that he isn't the brightest bulb on the tree. Learning this, or any other system might not be an easy thing for him, but I suspect that he will come around. Of course, I could easily be wrong.

 

McKelvin is another matter. Jauron didn't want Branden Albert. He wanted another corner come hell or high water, despite having a boatload of them. It is far too early to call him a bust, but given the injuries, his lack of production does raise an eyebrow.

[DrDawkinstein]

lol at mis-using a Jerry Sullivan article to try to prove you didnt make a bad thread...

[BillsVet]

Teams like the Giants that receive immediate rookie contributions are the exception, not the norm. Last season, everyone talked about players like Aaron Ross, Ahmad Bradshaw, Kevin Boss, Steve Smith from USC, and Jay Alford. Those guys helped, but most team don't get that sort of production. A draft class which all helps from Day 1 is few and far between.

 

Someone talked about the CB development of Darrelle Revis, 14th pick in 07 versus McKelvin the 11th selection in 08. That's ridiculous, especially because there are so many variables between the Jets and Bills defenses.

 

Frankly, the Bills have to get production out of these guys, but the coaching staff knows this is a make or break season. Trusting rookies is risky, and DJ doesn't care to chance a young kid making a mistake.

 

Patience is a virtue with rookies, and many fans, myself included, want these guys to be playmakers out of the box. Rare is the player, aside from perhaps RB's, who makes an impact their rookie season. Still, it would be nice to see one of them (McK, Hardy, or Ellis) step up and make a play. It's been awhile since Hardy caught that pass in Jville.

[Sisyphean Bills]

McKelvin is another matter. Jauron didn't want Branden Albert. He wanted another corner come hell or high water, despite having a boatload of them. It is far too early to call him a bust, but given the injuries, his lack of production does raise an eyebrow.

At corner, the Bills had a lot of question marks. Greer was a question mark in that he had started last season behind Webster and Butler and got on the field due to injury. Youboty gave all the signs of being an outright bust. James was just another Webster-like signing -- a journeyman that one doesn't really want to have to have play. Then, one notices Tom Brady, Randy Moss, and Wes Welker and realizes that in order to compete the Bills can't simply paper over a lack of talent with a "Tampa 2" scheme and moving Donte Whitner around.

 

The emergence of Youboty was not being counted upon on draft day; and, Greer, thankfully, didn't rest on his laurels and go into a huge tailspin this season either.

 

I know that doesn't explain why the "best CB in the entire draft" was buried on the depth chart and generally not looking like a top draft pick (I'm not really that down on him -- he's coming from Troy State so it's going to take time, which should've been part of the decision process BTW), nor does it mean the Bills are good enough that they can afford to whiff (or even just bunt their way to first) on top of the order draft picks.

[TheBlackMamba]

lol at mis-using a Jerry Sullivan article to try to prove you didnt make a bad thread...

 

A few posts said that my thread had no purpouse and todays threads is to show that i wasnt the only one suggesting that the rookies werent proving much... u schmuck

[Bill from NYC]

At corner, the Bills had a lot of question marks. Greer was a question mark in that he had started last season behind Webster and Butler and got on the field due to injury. Youboty gave all the signs of being an outright bust. James was just another Webster-like signing -- a journeyman that one doesn't really want to have to have play. Then, one notices Tom Brady, Randy Moss, and Wes Welker and realizes that in order to compete the Bills can't simply paper over a lack of talent with a "Tampa 2" scheme and moving Donte Whitner around.

 

The emergence of Youboty was not being counted upon on draft day; and, Greer, thankfully, didn't rest on his laurels and go into a huge tailspin this season either.

 

I know that doesn't explain why the "best CB in the entire draft" was buried on the depth chart and generally not looking like a top draft pick (I'm not really that down on him -- he's coming from Troy State so it's going to take time, which should've been part of the decision process BTW), nor does it mean the Bills are good enough that they can afford to whiff (or even just bunt their way to first) on top of the order draft picks.

 

Points well taken, and this would be great justification for selecting McKelvin if the team was solid up front on both, let alone either side.

[Lori]

A stupid topic really??? How bad could mckelvin be that even though mcgee was getting TORCHED last week, the coaches didnt pull mcgee to put McKelvin into the game? Or how about kickoffs...apparently this guy was supposed to be the next Devin Hester...Chris Ellis, Kelsay, Denney, Copeland Bryan...3 Games...0 Sacks...And Hardy 7 catches 66 yards

 

Followed SEVEN MINUTES LATER by ...

I guess it's wrong to pile on these 3 guys because its just about eveything...o-line, d-line, qb play, play calling, rookies not producing and the special teams suddenly dont seem so special

 

So I guess the 360 is complete, and we're back to the first line of thought? Just trying to keep track ...

[justnzane]

A few posts said that my thread had no purpouse and todays threads is to show that i wasnt the only one suggesting that the rookies werent proving much... u schmuck

using Jerry Sullivan as your counterargument is like convincing your friends on middle eastern policy based on what you heard from George W. Bush.

[C.Biscuit97]

Your thread wasn't dumb. The title probably was off in that it was a bit superfluous, because it really is early to label them as "busts." C'mon, 8 games?

 

Looking at the 3 picks, imo 2 of them were well advised. Our defensive ends this season range from injured to pitiful. Ellis is said to have ability to rush the passer. Makes sense to me. Obviously, we are not prepared to comment on his play because we have barely seen him.

 

This team needed a big receiver. Not only that, the contract status of Evans was uncertain. Also, who knew that Josh Reed would have such a strong season? Now he is injured and the need at wideout becomes even more pronounced. Hardy hasn't put up numbers but that doesn't mean that he cannot. Looking at his off field incidents, my suspicion is that he isn't the brightest bulb on the tree. Learning this, or any other system might not be an easy thing for him, but I suspect that he will come around. Of course, I could easily be wrong.

 

McKelvin is another matter. Jauron didn't want Branden Albert. He wanted another corner come hell or high water, despite having a boatload of them. It is far too early to call him a bust, but given the injuries, his lack of production does raise an eyebrow.

 

I agree with the majority of this post, but what has Albert done that makes him such a great pick? The Chiefs struggle mighty to run the ball and get everyone of their QBs hurt. The Bills liked Butler and locked him up. Albert is not a center, so there was no place for him.

 

As for McKelvin, the Bills are gonna face a tough decision at the end of the season to pay Greer, who has become our top corner. He may get some big bucks on the open market. McKelvin, with a full year in the system, will be in much better shape next year.

[C.Biscuit97]

Teams like the Giants that receive immediate rookie contributions are the exception, not the norm. Last season, everyone talked about players like Aaron Ross, Ahmad Bradshaw, Kevin Boss, Steve Smith from USC, and Jay Alford. Those guys helped, but most team don't get that sort of production. A draft class which all helps from Day 1 is few and far between.

 

Someone talked about the CB development of Darrelle Revis, 14th pick in 07 versus McKelvin the 11th selection in 08. That's ridiculous, especially because there are so many variables between the Jets and Bills defenses.

 

Frankly, the Bills have to get production out of these guys, but the coaching staff knows this is a make or break season. Trusting rookies is risky, and DJ doesn't care to chance a young kid making a mistake.

 

Patience is a virtue with rookies, and many fans, myself included, want these guys to be playmakers out of the box. Rare is the player, aside from perhaps RB's, who makes an impact their rookie season. Still, it would be nice to see one of them (McK, Hardy, or Ellis) step up and make a play. It's been awhile since Hardy caught that pass in Jville.

 

The players you listed on the Giants didn't start contributing until the end of the season and in the playoffs. Revis struggled mightily until later in the season. That's why you need to have patience. If we don't see any improvement in this back half of the season, then maybe you should start worrying. But even then, it is really still too early.

[zdro22]

Let's see:

"So it’s fair to say this group has been slow to develop."

 

and

 

"In time, this draft class might be a good one. But the organization expected more. Maybe they’re a year away — like the team as a whole."

 

... equals calling them busts, which presumes that they never will develop? Not on my planet, and certainly not eight games into their rookie season.

 

 

Sullivan said he is not calling them busts yet. How are you guys soo pro bills that any shred of negative critisicm about the bills is an insane comment and should be dismissed? Are you people unable to find any fault in management or the team for the past month of play? They have been playing horrible football people! There I said it am I not a fan now? Expecting to get some contribution from your draft class in NOT unreasonable people. I remain very high on this class but and at the same time VERY dissapointed by their slow development. This team will not turn it around unless they find a way to run the ball and get to the qb. If those two things arent fixed they are not going to the playoffs. Now if ellis or a FA(KGB?) comes in, or they find some blitz schemes that work, and all of a sudden our oline starts moving people around and we can run the ball we are going to win the division. But this season can go either way here in the next few weeks, were going to make a run and right the ship or were going to crash back to the rest of the pack. This is exactly why i wish we would have waited on dick...just see how the season played out.

[KOKBILLS]

A few posts said that my thread had no purpouse and todays threads is to show that i wasnt the only one suggesting that the rookies werent proving much... u schmuck

 

Well if You had said it that way..that they were not proving much, You would have likely got more support...Because we would all LOVE to see this Rookie class contribute more...Dispite the fact that it rarely happens with Rookies...

 

But You used the word Bust...Once in the title thread and twice in the Post...It's been 8 freaking Games into their NFL Career...Did You see Darrell Reavis Sunday? Did You see how well he played? Care to take a guess at which Jets CB the Bills picked on last Year as a Rookie?...Exactly...Did You see Ashton Youboty in his 1st 2 Years in the NFL? And now (pre-injury of coarse)? How about Jabari Greer? How did He look as a Rookie? I can go on, and on, and on...

 

Your Post was stupid because You said Bust..3 times...That's all...Use better wording and you'll get better comments...

[Paup 1995MVP]

I agree with the majority of this post, but what has Albert done that makes him such a great pick? The Chiefs struggle mighty to run the ball and get everyone of their QBs hurt. The Bills liked Butler and locked him up. Albert is not a center, so there was no place for him.

 

As for McKelvin, the Bills are gonna face a tough decision at the end of the season to pay Greer, who has become our top corner. He may get some big bucks on the open market. McKelvin, with a full year in the system, will be in much better shape next year.

 

We can not afford to let Jabari Greer go. There is no evidence that McKelvin will ever develop into a top flight corner. You just can not let very good players walk. Our defensive collapse dates back to letting Antoine Winfield and Pat Williams go. We are always filling holes, and never moving forward. This organization has just been a disgrace this decade with its talent evaluations.

 

If McKelvin turns into a player, you can have him, McGee, Greer and Yabouty as your top 4 corners. I actually think Terrence was best when playing the nickel slot in his first couple of years in the league.

 

But looking at how poorly both our lines are playing, there are several holes to fill in the offseason. Another center, guard, and at least won DT and DE. And probably another WR, and a second TE to replace Royal. Good god, when will it end where we actually have very good players at most positions????

[Lofton80]

They have shown glimpses of talent. Hardy will be fine once he learns how to use that big body to ward off defenders. His touchdown catch against Jax in a clutch situation was not a fluke. He went high snagged the ball and danced both feet down with a defender in his shirt to win a game on the road. He started off Arizona with two good catches and has disappeared since. I would not call him a bust just yet. Evans, Moulds and many others were slow out of the box.

 

McKelvin has shown flashes as a returner. He has some bright moments with more than one 40+ yard return and a lot of mediocre returns. Following the all pro McGee creates high expectations, I think McKelvin breaks one before long. As a coverage guy, he is not ready as soon as one would expect from a #11 pick but he is not terrible. Let's see what he can do the second half of the season before we bury him.

 

Ellis is definitely a concern as this is a problem area. I imagine he is weak against the run which makes it tough to use him in Fewell's cover 2. Maybe use him as a standup rusher as a linebacker off the edge. Anything would be an improvement.

[Kipers Hair]

Hat's off to Sully - excellent points....I was sickened last night watching that 6th RD LB from Washington making play after play....We need better to get better.

[BillsVet]

The players you listed on the Giants didn't start contributing until the end of the season and in the playoffs. Revis struggled mightily until later in the season. That's why you need to have patience. If we don't see any improvement in this back half of the season, then maybe you should start worrying. But even then, it is really still too early.

 

Let's not split hairs here. Those guys played solid football when called upon, particularly Boss and Bradshaw. It may not have been week 1, but they were ready, regardless of which round their name was called.

 

The big issue with this team is depth, and when injuries mount as they inevitably do, you've got to get production from the rookies. The Bills obviously don't trust their picks, and DJ will play them only when he's out of options. That's a mistake, and something I feel occurs because DJ knows this season he must make the playoffs. He's mitigating risk by not playing them, but stunting their long term growth. You could argue it's because he doesn't want them to fail and lose games, but that's life in the salary cap era.