O-Line is filled with mistakes in free agency & draft

[VJ91]

Derek Dockery and Langston Walker were overpaid by tens of millions to come in as free agents two years ago. Duke Preston looks like a career back up after getting his head smashed in play after play by the Jets D-line Sunday. Oh wait, he actually looks like exactly what he was - a 4th round draft choice. Of course that's better lately then the other high paid free agent the Bills signed a few years ago, Melvin Fowler, who can't even beat out Preston. Brad Butler, by the way, when healthy, is a 6th round draft choice. I don't remember what round Whittle was drafted in, because he's in like his 13th year now. And Jason Peters - the best of all of them, was a rookie free-agent undrafted tight end when he came to Buffalo. And as Buffalo luck would have it, his first trip to the Pro Bowl as a left tackle made him a legend in his own mind, and now his STUPID hold out is costing the team heavily. Folks, that is one sad offensive line story for an NFL franchise today. Mike Williams was the last offensive linemen the Bills drafted in the first round back in what, 2002 or 2003? Year after year the Bills braintrust have passed on drafting offensive linemen in the first, or even second, or even THIRD rounds, and now they are paying for it dearly. Whatever happens this season, playoffs an 8-8 year or worse, I think it's time for Russ Brandon and Dick Jauron to start drafting offensive linemen on day one of the draft next year!

[Nightcrawler]

True...hindsight is 20-20 of course. The Bills O-line is not a strong unit because of lack of talent, lack of drafting, inconsistency, and even weight issues.

 

I did think Dockery was a good pick-up, but the Bills panicked and signed Dockery at the the height of the value of an inside guard. Buffalo saw the cost of Steve Hutchinson's 7 million contract, and they jumped on Dockery hoping that he was or would turn into a top 5 LG in the league. The truth is Dockery is good, but he's paid the same as Hutchinson; he is just two notches below an all-pro/perennial pro bowl player.

 

The Mike Williams pick really made the Bills front office gun shy on offensive lineman.

 

Here is what Buffalo needs to do for 2009 Offseason

 

1. Replace Melvin Fowler with Alex Mack of California, the top-rated center in the 2009 draft in Round #1. Preston backup

2. Sign a mid-level guard with some quickness to replace Butler in starting lineup and to replace Whittle

3. Resign Kirk Chambers to be a backup tackle. Give Demetrius Bell some reps as a backup

4. Draft another offensive lineman in round #4 or #5 for depth

[bills4sb]

This was the same line that gave up a franchise low in sacks last year like 25 or so...so what happened between last year and this year I guess is the main problem here. It's been beat to a dead horse that we need a dominating center and hopefully we get one someway. Preston and Fowler are average back-ups!

[ganesh]

This was the same line that gave up a franchise low in sacks last year like 25 or so...so what happened between last year and this year I guess is the main problem here. It's been beat to a dead horse that we need a dominating center and hopefully we get one someway. Preston and Fowler are average back-ups!

 

 

Last year the same 5 guys played almost the whole year....Not so this year....With Peters missing the entire off season, Walker was forced to play LT and this made the whole line unsettled as that resulted in two guys at two new positions (LT and RT)....

 

Once Peter got back, he is completely out of sync with himself and his teammates....I wish Peters had been with this team during the off season to maintain that consistency...

[Big Turk]

Well, here is what I can't understand...

 

How could Dockery have one of the highest YPC in the NFL on runs to his side of the line and be described as a road grader by every scout in the NFL when he was with the Redskins, yet somehow he can't block all of a sudden here? And no it wasn't because of the RB, because the Redskins were below average on runs to other areas.

 

Walker has been pretty good for us, not great, but at 5 mil per season, certainly there are a lot of players making more than him playing worse...

 

IMHO, something is wrong with the blocking scheme this team is trying to run....just let these guys maul people and stop playing patty cake with them....

[BillsVet]

We expected McNally to come in and make the OL into something special. When it didn't happen, I thought it was just McNally past his prime.

 

Into the second season with Walker, Butler, Fowler, Dockery, and Peters it's apparent McNally wasn't the problem.

 

I'll go broken record here, but not drafting OL early these past five seasons is more apparent with every game. There is simply no blue chip talent beyond Peters on the OL. Even his play has been sub-par.

 

Maybe Bill was right when he said we devoted too many resources to the secondary while eschewing the OL. Devoting four late round picks to the OL these past three drafts is proving to be unsat.

[DDD]

Derek Dockery and Langston Walker were overpaid by tens of millions to come in as free agents two years ago. Duke Preston looks like a career back up after getting his head smashed in play after play by the Jets D-line Sunday. Oh wait, he actually looks like exactly what he was - a 4th round draft choice. Of course that's better lately then the other high paid free agent the Bills signed a few years ago, Melvin Fowler, who can't even beat out Preston. Brad Butler, by the way, when healthy, is a 6th round draft choice. I don't remember what round Whittle was drafted in, because he's in like his 13th year now. And Jason Peters - the best of all of them, was a rookie free-agent undrafted tight end when he came to Buffalo. And as Buffalo luck would have it, his first trip to the Pro Bowl as a left tackle made him a legend in his own mind, and now his STUPID hold out is costing the team heavily. Folks, that is one sad offensive line story for an NFL franchise today. Mike Williams was the last offensive linemen the Bills drafted in the first round back in what, 2002 or 2003? Year after year the Bills braintrust have passed on drafting offensive linemen in the first, or even second, or even THIRD rounds, and now they are paying for it dearly. Whatever happens this season, playoffs an 8-8 year or worse, I think it's time for Russ Brandon and Dick Jauron to start drafting offensive linemen on day one of the draft next year!

 

Can't disagree other than that Fowler was signed on the cheap from Minn. Walker and Dockery have "improved" our line from the garbage we had before, but they are average players paid like all-pros. The sad part is they are locked up long term and ain't going nowhere due to cap hits. Ditto for Peters and Butler. That means the only way we can improve the line is by adding a stud center and that isn't easy to do.

[bowery4]

Actually getting rid of any of our mistakes from FA isn't that expensive, you don't lose by dumping the contract, contracts are not guaranteed in the NFL. The signing bonus is the only guaranteed part.

 

This also goes for any older player that we gave a big expensive contract to the last few years, the thing that sucks about locking a guy up is that if they start to suck they also lose the trade value so you have to just dump them. The pack just did this with a player (who is a DE we should be looking (BTW).

[blade]

Derek Dockery and Langston Walker were overpaid by tens of millions to come in as free agents two years ago. Duke Preston looks like a career back up after getting his head smashed in play after play by the Jets D-line Sunday. Oh wait, he actually looks like exactly what he was - a 4th round draft choice. Of course that's better lately then the other high paid free agent the Bills signed a few years ago, Melvin Fowler, who can't even beat out Preston. Brad Butler, by the way, when healthy, is a 6th round draft choice. I don't remember what round Whittle was drafted in, because he's in like his 13th year now. And Jason Peters - the best of all of them, was a rookie free-agent undrafted tight end when he came to Buffalo. And as Buffalo luck would have it, his first trip to the Pro Bowl as a left tackle made him a legend in his own mind, and now his STUPID hold out is costing the team heavily. Folks, that is one sad offensive line story for an NFL franchise today. Mike Williams was the last offensive linemen the Bills drafted in the first round back in what, 2002 or 2003? Year after year the Bills braintrust have passed on drafting offensive linemen in the first, or even second, or even THIRD rounds, and now they are paying for it dearly. Whatever happens this season, playoffs an 8-8 year or worse, I think it's time for Russ Brandon and Dick Jauron to start drafting offensive linemen on day one of the draft next year!

VJ91 you mentioned that the Bills in the past have rarely taken o. lineman in the first round or on the first day. As far as the first round the Bills and many other teams rarely pick o. lineman in that round because rarely are there any that have that much value. You never see more than 3 or 4 o. lineman go in the first and when you do see an o. lineman picked in the first it's usually late in the first round. Unfortunately our records the past few years have been so bad that we have been near the top third of the draft.

[Cynical]

Derek Dockery and Langston Walker were overpaid by tens of millions to come in as free agents two years ago. Duke Preston looks like a career back up after getting his head smashed in play after play by the Jets D-line Sunday. Oh wait, he actually looks like exactly what he was - a 4th round draft choice. Of course that's better lately then the other high paid free agent the Bills signed a few years ago, Melvin Fowler, who can't even beat out Preston. Brad Butler, by the way, when healthy, is a 6th round draft choice. I don't remember what round Whittle was drafted in, because he's in like his 13th year now. And Jason Peters - the best of all of them, was a rookie free-agent undrafted tight end when he came to Buffalo. And as Buffalo luck would have it, his first trip to the Pro Bowl as a left tackle made him a legend in his own mind, and now his STUPID hold out is costing the team heavily. Folks, that is one sad offensive line story for an NFL franchise today. Mike Williams was the last offensive linemen the Bills drafted in the first round back in what, 2002 or 2003? Year after year the Bills braintrust have passed on drafting offensive linemen in the first, or even second, or even THIRD rounds, and now they are paying for it dearly. Whatever happens this season, playoffs an 8-8 year or worse, I think it's time for Russ Brandon and Dick Jauron to start drafting offensive linemen on day one of the draft next year!

 

 

Are you kidding? If anything, the injuries to Whitner, Youboty, and McGee, the benching of Simpson, the potential loss of Greer in the offseason, and McKelvin looking like he will take longer to develop than anticipated, have proven the Bills do not have enough DB's. I expect Jauron to draft at least three more DB's in 2009. Hell, maybe 4. We are in dire straits here. One will be at least a first or second round pick. I also expect the Bills to carry 16 DB's on the active roster starting next year.

 

As for O-line. The Bills can just sign some guys from free agency. It has worked to this point, right?

 

Am I right?

 

Anybody?

[bills4sb]

Are you kidding? If anything, the injuries to Whitner, Youboty, and McGee, the benching of Simpson, the potential loss of Greer in the offseason, and McKelvin looking like he will take longer to develop than anticipated, have proven the Bills do not have enough DB's. I expect Jauron to draft at least three more DB's in 2009. Hell, maybe 4. We are in dire straits here. One will be at least a first or second round pick. I also expect the Bills to carry 16 DB's on the active roster starting next year.

 

As for O-line. The Bills can just sign some guys from free agency. It has worked to this point, right?

 

Am I right?

 

Anybody?

 

If we sign Greer then that makes DB less of a need next year, hopefully giving McKelvin more time to develop but I suspect if he isn't able to crack the top 3 next year then im not sure what to say...

 

I think the o-line is more continuity than anything. Peters missed all off season workouts, that has proven to be disasterous. He still has two years left on his deal after this year making him less of a priority and Greer more of one. WE MUST KEEP GREER. Also don't forget Butler has been out for two weeks and nothing against Whittle, but he's like 280 and just got manhandled on several plays last week. I think we can all agree Butler is better than Whittle. I'm holding out hope the line will find its groove this week.

 

As for FA centers, are there any good ones this year? I say we draft a C on day one of the draft.

[BillsVet]

If we sign Greer then that makes DB less of a need next year, hopefully giving McKelvin more time to develop but I suspect if he isn't able to crack the top 3 next year then im not sure what to say...

 

I think the o-line is more continuity than anything. Peters missed all off season workouts, that has proven to be disasterous. He still has two years left on his deal after this year making him less of a priority and Greer more of one. WE MUST KEEP GREER. Also don't forget Butler has been out for two weeks and nothing against Whittle, but he's like 280 and just got manhandled on several plays last week. I think we can all agree Butler is better than Whittle. I'm holding out hope the line will find its groove this week.

 

As for FA centers, are there any good ones this year? I say we draft a C on day one of the draft.

 

Having continuity with the right personnel is elusive, and right now that OL with Walker, Butler, Fowler, Dockery, and Peters has played 20 games over 1.5 seasons. It's not continuity, it's poor play. Plain and simple.

 

There is no question they must go OL early this coming draft. Alex Mack from Cal and Jonathan Luigs from Arkansas are the best C prospects, with Mack a blue chip caliber center. He has excellent mobility and plays with mean streak.

 

I think retaining Greer is a necessity, unless they're gambling McKelvin and Youboty will be better next season. To me, the knock on Youboty is he can't stay healthy. Even McGee is a UFA after 09.

[Bill from NYC]

Having continuity with the right personnel is elusive, and right now that OL with Walker, Butler, Fowler, Dockery, and Peters has played 20 games over 1.5 seasons. It's not continuity, it's poor play. Plain and simple.

 

There is no question they must go OL early this coming draft. Alex Mack from Cal and Jonathan Luigs from Arkansas are the best C prospects, with Mack a blue chip caliber center. He has excellent mobility and plays with mean streak.

 

I think retaining Greer is a necessity, unless they're gambling McKelvin and Youboty will be better next season. To me, the knock on Youboty is he can't stay healthy. Even McGee is a UFA after 09.

 

If they don't re-sign Greer, another 1st round corner is likely, although I think Jauron will go with a safety.

 

With a different guy in charge, a Center would make sense, as would a good, early round OG. If they brought in a solid OG they could move Dockery to the right side. I would have no problem with that.

 

The thing is, the defensive line (other than Stroud) is either small, slow, weak, getting older, or any combination of the above, and even Stroud is no kid. Imagine what Poz could do with a good front 4 in front of him?

 

I want these needs to be addressed, but my hopes for Jauron doing so are not so high.

[Joe Miner]

If they don't re-sign Greer, another 1st round corner is likely, although I think Jauron will go with a safety.

 

With a different guy in charge, a Center would make sense, as would a good, early round OG. If they brought in a solid OG they could move Dockery to the right side. I would have no problem with that.

 

The thing is, the defensive line (other than Stroud) is either small, slow, weak, getting older, or any combination of the above, and even Stroud is no kid. Imagine what Poz could do with a good front 4 in front of him?

 

I want these needs to be addressed, but my hopes for Jauron doing so are not so high.

 

I completely agree.

 

IMO, a C and a DT are the most important things we need. Followed immediately by a G and a DE. Next up is a OLB and a TE. But, then again you also have to draft for value, so if there is a TE with a much higher value than any DE on the board, then take the TE.

 

We just picked up a WR, a few CB's, and a couple of S's in the last few drafts. We need to give them some time to see how they're gonna turn out.

[KOKBILLS]

If they don't re-sign Greer, another 1st round corner is likely, although I think Jauron will go with a safety.

 

With a different guy in charge, a Center would make sense, as would a good, early round OG. If they brought in a solid OG they could move Dockery to the right side. I would have no problem with that.

 

The thing is, the defensive line (other than Stroud) is either small, slow, weak, getting older, or any combination of the above, and even Stroud is no kid. Imagine what Poz could do with a good front 4 in front of him?

 

I want these needs to be addressed, but my hopes for Jauron doing so are not so high.

 

Agreed...

 

D-Line 1st, O-Line 2nd...Then some more for depth...Got to improve this Team in the trenches...Period end of story...

 

Oh and IF The Bills Pick a Safety in Round one next Year You can count on Me to attend the Mob march on OBD...I'll supply My own Torch and Pitchfork...

[BillsVet]

If they don't re-sign Greer, another 1st round corner is likely, although I think Jauron will go with a safety.

 

With a different guy in charge, a Center would make sense, as would a good, early round OG. If they brought in a solid OG they could move Dockery to the right side. I would have no problem with that.

 

The thing is, the defensive line (other than Stroud) is either small, slow, weak, getting older, or any combination of the above, and even Stroud is no kid. Imagine what Poz could do with a good front 4 in front of him?

 

I want these needs to be addressed, but my hopes for Jauron doing so are not so high.

 

Bill, I honestly think the DB first approach is over for DJ. Everyone in the world knows how much he's allocated toward the secondary, and it still isn't enough. You could have Ronnie Lott, Night Train Lane, Champ Bailey, and Lester Hayes and it wouldn't be enough with that front four.

 

On April 25th, when the Bills are up and Mack is on the board or some top OL or DL, I'll spontaneously combust if they go DB.

[Kipers Hair]

Here is what Buffalo needs to do for 2009 Offseason

 

1. Replace Melvin Fowler with Alex Mack of California, the top-rated center in the 2009 draft in Round #1. Preston backup

 

If we draft a center that early - I am joining that guy as a Tennesee fan...We have way too many premium needs - OLB, OT, DE, TE....

[Tcali]

Bill, I honestly think the DB first approach is over for DJ. Everyone in the world knows how much he's allocated toward the secondary, and it still isn't enough. You could have Ronnie Lott, Night Train Lane, Champ Bailey, and Lester Hayes and it wouldn't be enough with that front four.

 

On April 25th, when the Bills are up and Mack is on the board or some top OL or DL, I'll spontaneously combust if they go DB.

 

yeah Bills fans will explode like Spinal Tap drummers if we dont deal with our lines this draft.

[JStranger76]

Yeah but hopefully a couple of those needs are taken care of in free agency. If center is the highest rated player on the board you take him.

[Bill from NYC]

yeah Bills fans will explode like Spinal Tap drummers if we dont deal with our lines this draft.

 

Funny stuff!

 

I have been over the edge with this for as long as I can remember. Marcus Spriggs anyone?

The crazy thing is that I firmly believe that with some blockers and DL, this team can be a very serious contender.

Who knows, Fine might even be a decent TE. I just hope that someone on the coaching staff taps him on the shoulder and tells him that he doesn't have to jump for head high passes, and we will see where it goes from there.