2008-9 Syracuse University Basketball Thread

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I actually thought we didn't play too bad, save the missed easy shots around the hoop and missed free throws.

 

G-Town was just in a zone tonight from the outside. A lot of those shots were contested too--but they nailed something like 60% of their three's. Not sure how you stop that. JB should have scrapped the zone when G-Town went on the run in the first half, although I doubt it would have helped.

[GhostsOfTheRockpile]

Summers is a little b!tch.

 

Then what's that punk girl-puncher "Cheddar Bob" Devendorf?

 

The game was about even for the most part. Rebounding was in G'Town's favor in the first half, SU's in the second (and late, when the Hoyas stopped sending big bodies into the lane). Turnovers were about even. Where the game turned:

 

(1) Depth - Georgetown ran too many bodies at SU last night. Wright was in foul trouble, but Clark did a fine job checking Flynn much of the night. No surprise that Flynn picked up several of his 14 when a cold Wright checked back in at the beginning of the second half. As for bodies in the paint, Monroe, Sims and Vaughn outplayed Arinze and Jackson for long stretches. Lastly, without Rautins SU's depth looks diminished.

 

(2) Scheme - look at the assist:turnover ratios. Georgetown was almost 2:1, SU was almost 1:1.5 !! Georgetown did a better job running their offense than SU (which at times resembles "Give it to Flynn, see what he can do"). When they're running it cleanly, G'Town creates as many open shots as any team in the nation, and last night they were knocking them down. But its more than the 3's, they had open mid-range shots all night both in the zone and when SU went m2m. Flynn's bad habit of trying to do too much and take it inside amongst the "trees" hurt SU for stretches last night.

 

(3) Harris - this goes to depth, but he needs to show up in these tough Big East games if SU wants to have any sort of chance to make any noise. As far as I'm concerned, the guy's career has been a disappointment thus far. He's what... a junior now? And he STILL needs chewing out time next to Boeheim??? With Rautins out, the bench gets a lot shorter. As G'Town brought in more and more big bodies (Sims and Vaughn off the bench), they needed Harris to step up... and despite the fact he picked up a double-double, it was the quietest 15-11 I've ever seen (garbage time points and a few big plays at the start of the second when SU trimmed the lead). Those five or six minutes when Boeheim sat there chewing Harris out (again) were when G'Town went on their runs, taking advantage of Joseph and Ongenaet's mediocre play.

 

And please... let's not whine about the officials. On palming, that has been a point of emphasis all season long, I've seen it called more this year than I have in the last five. If you want to get technical on travels, I give you exhibit A: Rick Jackson's shuffling feet nearly every time he gets the ball in the post. Monroe/Sims/Vaughn were hacked just as bad in the post as SU's bigs were. The point is, officiating goes both ways and evens out over the course of a game/season.

 

Devendorf may have slapped that girl, but Georgetown hit Syracuse with a closed fist last night. See you again in February (which I fully expect SU to win at home... home team seems to have the edge in recent years).

[BuffOrange]

I'm not going to argue about the refs because obv. it didn't make a difference in the game. It's great that you catch that one comment that was made during the game but missed the 200 posts where Devandorf was agreed to be a punk and nobody is arguing.

The difference was SU played zero defense and even still G'town likely misses a higher % of shots than that in practice. If G'town's depth, scheme, and talent is so superior I'm not sure why they wouldn't win again in the Dome.

[bills44]

Then what's that punk girl-puncher "Cheddar Bob" Devendorf?

 

The game was about even for the most part. Rebounding was in G'Town's favor in the first half, SU's in the second (and late, when the Hoyas stopped sending big bodies into the lane). Turnovers were about even. Where the game turned:

 

(1) Depth - Georgetown ran too many bodies at SU last night. Wright was in foul trouble, but Clark did a fine job checking Flynn much of the night. No surprise that Flynn picked up several of his 14 when a cold Wright checked back in at the beginning of the second half. As for bodies in the paint, Monroe, Sims and Vaughn outplayed Arinze and Jackson for long stretches. Lastly, without Rautins SU's depth looks diminished.

 

(2) Scheme - look at the assist:turnover ratios. Georgetown was almost 2:1, SU was almost 1:1.5 !! Georgetown did a better job running their offense than SU (which at times resembles "Give it to Flynn, see what he can do"). When they're running it cleanly, G'Town creates as many open shots as any team in the nation, and last night they were knocking them down. But its more than the 3's, they had open mid-range shots all night both in the zone and when SU went m2m. Flynn's bad habit of trying to do too much and take it inside amongst the "trees" hurt SU for stretches last night.

 

(3) Harris - this goes to depth, but he needs to show up in these tough Big East games if SU wants to have any sort of chance to make any noise. As far as I'm concerned, the guy's career has been a disappointment thus far. He's what... a junior now? And he STILL needs chewing out time next to Boeheim??? With Rautins out, the bench gets a lot shorter. As G'Town brought in more and more big bodies (Sims and Vaughn off the bench), they needed Harris to step up... and despite the fact he picked up a double-double, it was the quietest 15-11 I've ever seen (garbage time points and a few big plays at the start of the second when SU trimmed the lead). Those five or six minutes when Boeheim sat there chewing Harris out (again) were when G'Town went on their runs, taking advantage of Joseph and Ongenaet's mediocre play.

 

And please... let's not whine about the officials. On palming, that has been a point of emphasis all season long, I've seen it called more this year than I have in the last five. If you want to get technical on travels, I give you exhibit A: Rick Jackson's shuffling feet nearly every time he gets the ball in the post. Monroe/Sims/Vaughn were hacked just as bad in the post as SU's bigs were. The point is, officiating goes both ways and evens out over the course of a game/season.

 

Devendorf may have slapped that girl, but Georgetown hit Syracuse with a closed fist last night. See you again in February (which I fully expect SU to win at home... home team seems to have the edge in recent years).

 

 

What's Victor Page up to these days? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXpsdJS2578

 

Summers' reaction was childish at best....take a foul like a man. This is Big East Basketball, not croquet.

 

As for Devendorf, you may want to check the facts again.

 

Harris is a very solid player. For some reason, Boeheim has a hard-on for him. I don't think that there's a team in the BE that wouldn't love to have him - he does all of the dirty work, and gets very few accolades.

 

Regarding the Rautins injury - that was an extremely reckless play by Token (on the verge of being dirty).

 

I can't wait for the rematch on Valentine's Day. Something tells me that GTown isn't going to hit 60% of their 3-pointers that day....

[GhostsOfTheRockpile]

I'm not going to argue about the refs because obv. it didn't make a difference in the game. It's great that you catch that one comment that was made during the game but missed the 200 posts where Devandorf was agreed to be a punk and nobody is arguing.

The difference was SU played zero defense and even still G'town likely misses a higher % of shots than that in practice. If G'town's depth, scheme, and talent is so superior I'm not sure why they wouldn't win again in the Dome.

 

If you'd read my post, you'd see I indicated LAST NIGHT'S GAME turned on those three things. Last night, those three factors helped turned the game in G'Town's favor, that's all.

 

Who's to say the same doesn't happen again 2/14? Or that Syracuse doesn't completely turn the tables?

[GhostsOfTheRockpile]

Summers' reaction was childish at best....take a foul like a man. This is Big East Basketball, not croquet.

 

Childish? Oh please. The guy stood up and yelled "AND ONE!" Its the kind of emotion Syracuse could have used last night in droves, instead of sleepwalking through most of the game. This is the Big East. Its supposed to be physical, guys are supposed to get emotional, and I'm sure if the shoe had been on the other foot, you'd be praising Harris or someone else for playing with intensity.

 

Harris is a very solid player. For some reason, Boeheim has a hard-on for him. I don't think that there's a team in the BE that wouldn't love to have him - he does all of the dirty work, and gets very few accolades.

 

I wouldn't mind having him on my team, but his hot-and-cold play is maddening. Boeheim SHOULD be hard on him, as his play is far too inconsistent for a supposed blue-chip recruit, team leader and THIRD YEAR player. My co-worker is a two-time Syracuse grad, and can't stop harping on Harris. Take an objective stance, and you'd see he simply doesn't bring the same intensity and focus to both ends of the floor every night like he needs to.

 

Regarding the Rautins injury - that was an extremely reckless play by Token (on the verge of being dirty).

 

You're joking, right? The guy dives for the ball, saves it, and now he's dirty? Again, if Joseph had rolled Summers' ankle, what would you be saying? This is Big East basketball... these things happen. To even call the play "reckless" is beyond stupid. Don't be so myopic, its a play that happens in the course of basketball games ALL THE DAMN TIME. For what its worth, both myself and the Hoya fans on our message board are all hoping the best for Rautins... we've seen what chronic injuries can do to a career first hand.

 

As for the "token" comment with regards to our Russian player... you stay classy, Syracuse. I'd expect nothing less!

 

I can't wait for the rematch on Valentine's Day. Something tells me that GTown isn't going to hit 60% of their 3-pointers that day....

 

They probably won't. And Syracuse probably won't play as horribly on the defensive end as they did last night. Which is why I said I fully expect Syracuse to win the rematch. Reading comprehension, people...

[bills44]

Childish? Oh please. The guy stood up and yelled "AND ONE!" Its the kind of emotion Syracuse could have used last night in droves, instead of sleepwalking through most of the game. This is the Big East. Its supposed to be physical, guys are supposed to get emotional, and I'm sure if the shoe had been on the other foot, you'd be praising Harris or someone else for playing with intensity.

 

 

 

I wouldn't mind having him on my team, but his hot-and-cold play is maddening. Boeheim SHOULD be hard on him, as his play is far too inconsistent for a supposed blue-chip recruit, team leader and THIRD YEAR player. My co-worker is a two-time Syracuse grad, and can't stop harping on Harris. Take an objective stance, and you'd see he simply doesn't bring the same intensity and focus to both ends of the floor every night like he needs to.

 

 

 

You're joking, right? The guy dives for the ball, saves it, and now he's dirty? Again, if Joseph had rolled Summers' ankle, what would you be saying? This is Big East basketball... these things happen. To even call the play "reckless" is beyond stupid. Don't be so myopic, its a play that happens in the course of basketball games ALL THE DAMN TIME. For what its worth, both myself and the Hoya fans on our message board are all hoping the best for Rautins... we've seen what chronic injuries can do to a career first hand.

 

As for the "token" comment with regards to our Russian player... you stay classy, Syracuse. I'd expect nothing less!

 

 

 

They probably won't. And Syracuse probably won't play as horribly on the defensive end as they did last night. Which is why I said I fully expect Syracuse to win the rematch. Reading comprehension, people...

 

No, I wouldn't be praising an SU player for doing what Summers did. Last year, Ongenaet was fouled on an almost identical play against Villanova. He just walked away, and hit the FT. Emotion is one thing, but being called for a technical is foolish (much like Harris hanging on the rim @ Rutgers). Like you said, the Big East is supposed to be physical, so expect the contact on a play like that.

 

If you're looking for hot-and-cold performances from a "THIRD YEAR" player and supposed blue chip prospect, you should probably be more concerned with your own Dajuan Summers than Harris. Harris is plenty intense, and he's been quite consistent. Maybe your co-worker doesn't pay enough attention to the games, but Boeheim most definitely rides Harris more than any other SU player. You rarely see him chewing out Devendorf, Rautins or Onuaku during a game.

 

I never said that Token was dirty. Reading comprehension, people. I said that the play was reckless, which I stand by. The only reason that Token wound up with the ball is because Rautins fell when his knee buckled. I don't see plays like that "ALL THE DAMN TIME". Fine use of the caps lock key, BTW.

 

Sorry about the "Token" comment. I'm not using to seeing any sort of diversity (Matt Causey was the last non-African-American Hoya I remember) on the Georgetown Basketball Team. Aside from his reckless play on the loose ball, he knocked down a couple of big treys. Props to Token.

 

I am aware that you said that you expected SU to win the rematch. By pointing out Gtown's 3-point pct. last night, I guess what I'm saying is that, while Gtown played well, the stars kind of aligned for them.

 

Re. Rautins - he says that he's good to go for ND on Saturday.

 

Lastly, Monroe is a once-in-a-decade kind of a player. Pleasure to watch. As an SU fan, I hope he leaves after the year, though

[GhostsOfTheRockpile]

No, I wouldn't be praising an SU player for doing what Summers did. Last year, Ongenaet was fouled on an almost identical play against Villanova. He just walked away, and hit the FT. Emotion is one thing, but being called for a technical is foolish (much like Harris hanging on the rim @ Rutgers). Like you said, the Big East is supposed to be physical, so expect the contact on a play like that.

 

If you're looking for hot-and-cold performances from a "THIRD YEAR" player and supposed blue chip prospect, you should probably be more concerned with your own Dajuan Summers than Harris. Harris is plenty intense, and he's been quite consistent. Maybe your co-worker doesn't pay enough attention to the games, but Boeheim most definitely rides Harris more than any other SU player. You rarely see him chewing out Devendorf, Rautins or Onuaku during a game.

 

I never said that Token was dirty. Reading comprehension, people. I said that the play was reckless, which I stand by. The only reason that Token wound up with the ball is because Rautins fell when his knee buckled. I don't see plays like that "ALL THE DAMN TIME". Fine use of the caps lock key, BTW.

 

Sorry about the "Token" comment. I'm not using to seeing any sort of diversity (Matt Causey was the last non-African-American Hoya I remember) on the Georgetown Basketball Team. Aside from his reckless play on the loose ball, he knocked down a couple of big treys. Props to Token.

 

I am aware that you said that you expected SU to win the rematch. By pointing out Gtown's 3-point pct. last night, I guess what I'm saying is that, while Gtown played well, the stars kind of aligned for them.

 

Re. Rautins - he says that he's good to go for ND on Saturday.

 

Lastly, Monroe is a once-in-a-decade kind of a player. Pleasure to watch. As an SU fan, I hope he leaves after the year, though

 

I'm not worried about Summers, he's been nasty all year, and has been pretty consistent since the end of last season.

 

But I'm confused, and this is an honest question... you continue to say Harris is consistent but at the same time Boeheim rides him more than anyone else (which is what my coworker always points out). The question I'm posing is - why is that? You seem to be contradicting yourself... I'd say he rides Harris more than the others because Harris gives him reasons to. He's just not as focused at both ends of the floor game-in and game-out as he needs to be, and I'm pretty certain Boeheim has said as much.

 

You don't see guys diving for loose balls all the time, and other guys ending up in piles around them? Do you not watch basketball? Because I DO see players diving after loose balls and other guys ending up in piles on or around them... ALL THE DAMN TIME. Its called hustle. If you want to see reckless, take a look at the February '07 GU-WVU game where Joe Alexander dove at the BACK of Pat Ewing Jr's legs... 5 feet from the ball!!

 

And Georgetown doesn't start white guys and hasn't since Causey... so? There are plenty of teams that don't and haven't. But if you want to stick with all this "Token" yap, feel free. Like I said, you stay classy Syracuse.

 

Good to hear Rautins is coming back, I've always enjoyed watching the kid shoot.

 

I hope you guys smoke Notre Dame. Easily the most loathsome team in the Big East. Hopefully we'll take care of business against Duke, WVU, Marquette and Cincy (twice) before meeting you guys again, and you guys hold up against YOUR tough end of the schedule before Valentine's Day. It'd be nice to have this game be between two top-15 teams again.

[bills44]

I'm not worried about Summers, he's been nasty all year, and has been pretty consistent since the end of last season.

 

But I'm confused, and this is an honest question... you continue to say Harris is consistent but at the same time Boeheim rides him more than anyone else (which is what my coworker always points out). The question I'm posing is - why is that? You seem to be contradicting yourself... I'd say he rides Harris more than the others because Harris gives him reasons to. He's just not as focused at both ends of the floor game-in and game-out as he needs to be, and I'm pretty certain Boeheim has said as much.

 

You don't see guys diving for loose balls all the time, and other guys ending up in piles around them? Do you not watch basketball? Because I DO see players diving after loose balls and other guys ending up in piles on or around them... ALL THE DAMN TIME. Its called hustle. If you want to see reckless, take a look at the February '07 GU-WVU game where Joe Alexander dove at the BACK of Pat Ewing Jr's legs... 5 feet from the ball!!

 

And Georgetown doesn't start white guys and hasn't since Causey... so? There are plenty of teams that don't and haven't. But if you want to stick with all this "Token" yap, feel free. Like I said, you stay classy Syracuse.

 

Good to hear Rautins is coming back, I've always enjoyed watching the kid shoot.

 

I hope you guys smoke Notre Dame. Easily the most loathsome team in the Big East. Hopefully we'll take care of business against Duke, WVU, Marquette and Cincy (twice) before meeting you guys again, and you guys hold up against YOUR tough end of the schedule before Valentine's Day. It'd be nice to have this game be between two top-15 teams again.

 

Onuaku falls asleep on defense half the time, and Boeheim doesn't rip him a new one. Devendorf has been prone to poor decisions with the ball for 3 years running, and, again, Boeheim doesn't yell at him. Boeheim is notorious for putting players in his doghouse - Harris has been a resident since his time at SU. If Boeheim (or anyone else) doesn't realize his value to the team, look at the 2nd half against S. Florida.

 

I don't see players dive towards other players' knees/legs regularly. Normally, when I see a "loose ball", there are two (or more) players on the ground battling it out. In this case, there were 3 players going for the ball, and only 1 of them was on the ground. To answer your question, I do not recall the Alexander/Ewing Jr. loose ball from nearly 2 years ago.

 

Obviously, the "Token" stuff is tongue-in-cheek, but Georgetown seems to rarely have a non-African-American in their rotation. I don't think that many programs could say the same. I just find it odd is all....

 

Good luck against Duke...a Duke loss is a good day for college basketball.

[BuffOrange]

I mean, if Harris was as great as advertised out of High School he'd be in the NBA by now. With the exception of the occasional Nichols, most 6'5" players are what they are their Freshman year. McDonalds AA's aren't always superstars: I guess when you're Duke and you get 6 of them per year you don't need them all to be great; you can count SU's on one hand since John Wallace, so yeah it'd be nice if he was Carmello II but he's not - what can you do. He's the type of "dirty work" player who would probably be a fan favorite if he wasn't so highly touted.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Obviously, the "Token" stuff is tongue-in-cheek, but Georgetown seems to rarely have a non-African-American in their rotation. I don't think that many programs could say the same. I just find it odd is all....

 

When I was a little kid, I thought Georgetown was an all-black school, a la Howard. I have other friends who recently told me that they thought the same.

[bills44]

Very nice bounce back win against ND....got a little too close for comfort in the 2nd half, but they pulled away.

 

Great job by Onuaku and Jackson (Onuaku's FT shooting aside). Haragody got his points, but it took him about a zillion shots to do so.

[BuffOrange]

Shades of last year's Pitt collapse for a while. It is key to hold serve at home in this conference. I also thought the bigs played pretty good D on Goty, made him settle for fadeaways. ND is just really bad defensively.

[bills44]

Shades of last year's Pitt collapse for a while. It is key to hold serve at home in this conference. I also thought the bigs played pretty good D on Goty, made him settle for fadeaways. ND is just really bad defensively.

 

Heh. I was having visions of the Pitt debacle as well. A buddy of mine, Cuse fan from Binghamton, was in town for the weekend, and we watched the game at Brunner's. I was literally stunned, to the point of being speechless, but he went ballistic...threw his hat, swearing loudly, etc. -- people were looking at him like he was crazed.

 

Harangody is a volume scorer -- he gets his points, but he seems to need a lot of shots to do so.

 

Yeah, ND is terrible defensively.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I thought we played great today. Jackson--in addition to having a nice inside scoring game-- is terrific on defense, rebounding, and passing. In a way, we should run the offense through him--if he's doubled, he does a better job than AO of passing out of it.

 

As for our near collapse, I wouldn't go that far. That McClarney is insane--he's always going to shoot ND back into the game.

[The Dean]

I mean, if Harris was as great as advertised out of High School he'd be in the NBA by now. With the exception of the occasional Nichols, most 6'5" players are what they are their Freshman year. McDonalds AA's aren't always superstars: I guess when you're Duke and you get 6 of them per year you don't need them all to be great; you can count SU's on one hand since John Wallace, so yeah it'd be nice if he was Carmello II but he's not - what can you do. He's the type of "dirty work" player who would probably be a fan favorite if he wasn't so highly touted.

 

 

I got to watch a lot of Harris, and Flynn, in high school. Harris is better, sometimes much better, than I expected him to be at the college level. He couldn't shoot, at all, in high school. He was great, defensively, but I suspected he would be too small to play his game, effectively, at SU. He has really impressed me, much of the time.

 

I suspect that JB rides him because he believes that Harris could be really great, if he stayed focused. Sometimes coaches actually ride their better players more, if they think they aren't using all of their talent....or, quite frankly, if that approach works, with a certain player. Some players respond better to that kind of coaching, than others.

 

Honestly, I think Harris' biggest issue (and Flynn's to a degree, too) is they were taught to play aggressive, relentless, pressure defense. I believe both of these guys would benefit from more pressure and man-to-man D. It keeps them focused, creates opportunities, etc. But, obviously they need to learn to play whatever the coach decides to play...so it isn't an excuse...just an observation as to the reason they sometimes don't seem focused or disciplined.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Honestly, I think Harris' biggest issue (and Flynn's to a degree, too) is they were taught to play aggressive, relentless, pressure defense. I believe both of these guys would benefit from more pressure and man-to-man D. It keeps them focused, creates opportunities, etc. But, obviously they need to learn to play whatever the coach decides to play...so it isn't an excuse...just an observation as to the reason they sometimes don't seem focused or disciplined.

 

Great observation. It seems like Harris and Flynn thrive in M-to-M. It's like Gottlieb said after the last game-- Syracuse is ADD. Well, if you keep guys like Harris going 110% all game, it seems like they won't have time to have these crucial concentration lapses.

 

Anyway, HUGE game tonight--and we need both guys to shine, and Harris to be possessed on the boards.

[bills44]

Hate to say it, but I have a bad feeling about tonight's game.

[bills44]

Whenver I see that Burr or Higgins are doing an SU game, I know that they're going to get !@#$ed, but tonight was worse than usual.

 

Don't get me wrong, SU played like crap, but the refs were terrible.

 

It'll be fun to see Pitt lose in the 2nd round of the NCAAs again.

[BuffOrange]

Hate to say it, but I have a bad feeling about tonight's game.

 

I usually don't have a great feeling when we're a 9 point underdog. That was depressing to watch though. The way we played tonight & @G'town there's no point in showing up @Uconn.

Another big game vs. L'ville Sunday...somehow that's not a national tv game?