Still no access to Palin medical records

[IDBillzFan]

Wow. They won't release Obama's client list as a lawyer, his community work with the Annenberg Foundation, or even his college grades and his thesis on US-Russia relations, yet you guys are going on about the VP candidates medical records.

Are you questioning Maobama? This is just the kind of thing that upsets The One. Do you want to get thrown off his plane? Do you want Plugs Biden to deny you any more interviews?

 

Don't upset The One, or no gas for you.

 

Peggy will get all your gas, because she never questions The One.

 

Now go stand in the corner so the libs may publically laugh at you.

[Wacka]

Come to me my babies, let me quell your pain.

 

The new Obama slogan.

[elegantelliotoffen]

Come to me my babies, let me quell your pain.

 

The new Obama slogan.

 

How does McCain deal with the separation anxiety when he's stumping in a different city than Palin? He opens a can of tuna!

[Wacka]

WHY THE HELL DO YOU KEEP GOING ON AND ON WITH THE KOOL AID THING? IT'S SO F*CKING ANNOYING!

 

DO YOU STILL THINK IT'S FUNNY AFTER THE MILLIONTH TIME?

 

Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid Grape KoolAid

[The Big Cat]

Wow. They won't release Obama's client list as a lawyer, his community work with the Annenberg Foundation, or even his college grades and his thesis on US-Russia relations, yet you guys are going on about the VP candidates medical records.

 

Well, now that you mention it, I'd LOVE to see both McCain AND Palin's college grades. May be put them side by side with Obama's.

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

How does McCain deal with the separation anxiety when he's stumping in a different city than Palin? He opens a can of tuna!

I heard only 1,000 folks showed up at a rally for him today w/o Palin, when they were expecting 10,000 in Florida

[finknottle]

Well, now that you mention it, I'd LOVE to see both McCain AND Palin's college grades. May be put them side by side with Obama's.

 

Nobody is hiding McCain's grades and where he finished at the Academy. It's out there, and he has addressed it. The leg up he received by being the son of an admiral is also out there, and frequent fodder for radio call-in shows.

 

But Obama? I for one would like to know how somebody who spends two years at Occidental without ever making Deans list or visibily participating in school organizations can successfully transfer to Columbia. Columbia may be looked down upon by the likes of Harvard, Dartmouth and Princeton, but even they will grudgingly conceed that Columbia is a little more selective than that. Let's face it - the country is full of 4.0's who would like to transfer into the Ivy League. They don't get in.

 

Obama isn't the son of an alumni. The likely explanation, I'm sorry to say, is affirmative action. But we can't discuss that.

 

Nor, apparently, do we want to discuss his grades at Columbia, or his grades at Harvard. We just want to note that he was president of the Law Review and suggest that he was a stellar student and finished first in his law school. The law review is a student run organization which elects its editors and which openly was agitating for greater minority representation at the time. Obama as the great scholar might be more compelling if we actually knew his grades or class standing.

 

And then comes the hyped "Professor at Chicago." Pretty impressive for someone who has never published a paper on law, not even in the Law Review whose purpose is, ironically, to publish papers by the students. If you know anything about academia, you know how difficult it is to get hired as a professor even at the smallest SUNY school when you have no publications. At Chicago, it is impossible - I'm willing to bet that there is not a single unpublished scholar on the faculty.

 

I came into this election cycle not assuming that Obama's meteoric educational history was the product of successive steps of affirmative action, but the more I look at his history and the stubborn refusal of his campaign to release any details, the more I conclude otherwise.

[erynthered]

I heard only 1,000 folks showed up at a rally for him today w/o Palin, when they were expecting 10,000 in Florida

 

 

Maybe they had to work. It is freakin Monday, right? These rallies for Obama draw a lot of kids in collage. Whatever. we'll see tomorrow because rallies don't mean shiit, votes do.

 

Don't get me wrong, Obama wins by 100 electoral votes tomorrow

[Kelly the Dog]

Nobody is hiding McCain's grades and where he finished at the Academy. It's out there, and he has addressed it. The leg up he received by being the son of an admiral is also out there, and frequent fodder for radio call-in shows.

 

But Obama? I for one would like to know how somebody who spends two years at Occidental without ever making Deans list or visibily participating in school organizations can successfully transfer to Columbia. Columbia may be looked down upon by the likes of Harvard, Dartmouth and Princeton, but even they will grudgingly conceed that Columbia is a little more selective than that. Let's face it - the country is full of 4.0's who would like to transfer into the Ivy League. They don't get in.

 

Obama isn't the son of an alumni. The likely explanation, I'm sorry to say, is affirmative action. But we can't discuss that.

 

Nor, apparently, do we want to discuss his grades at Columbia, or his grades at Harvard. We just want to note that he was president of the Law Review and suggest that he was a stellar student and finished first in his law school. The law review is a student run organization which elects its editors and which openly was agitating for greater minority representation at the time. Obama as the great scholar might be more compelling if we actually knew his grades or class standing.

 

And then comes the hyped "Professor at Chicago." Pretty impressive for someone who has never published a paper on law, not even in the Law Review whose purpose is, ironically, to publish papers by the students. If you know anything about academia, you know how difficult it is to get hired as a professor even at the smallest SUNY school when you have no publications. At Chicago, it is impossible - I'm willing to bet that there is not a single unpublished scholar on the faculty.

 

I came into this election cycle not assuming that Obama's meteoric educational history was the product of successive steps of affirmative action, but the more I look at his history and the stubborn refusal of his campaign to release any details, the more I conclude otherwise.

His father did go to Harvard, and graduated with a Masters in economics in 1965 according to Wki. And Occidental is a great academic school, BTW. He started applying himself after he was already there, and did get involved. Not sure what his grades were there, but Oxy is a very good school. I lived down the street from it for nine years.

 

University of Chicago Law School also asked Barack to become a tenured full time professor several times and he turned them down. So they must have thought he was pretty good.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_Sr.

[KD in CA]

Maybe they had to work. It is freakin Monday, right? These rallies for Obama draw a lot of kids in collage. Whatever. we'll see tomorrow because rallies don't mean shiit, votes do.

 

Don't get me wrong, Obama wins by 100 electoral votes tomorrow

 

 

Work? Obama's gonna win man, no one has to go to work anymore!

[finknottle]

His father did go to Harvard, and graduated with a Masters in economics in 1965 according to Wki. And Occidental is a great academic school, BTW. He started applying himself after he was already there, and did get involved. Not sure what his grades were there, but Oxy is a very good school. I lived down the street from it for nine years.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_Sr.

 

Sorry, alumni status is not transferable. Dad having attended Harvard doesn't get you transferred into Columbia. It doesn't even get you transferred into Harvard unless he is a contributor or you have the grades.

 

Occidental may be a fine school, but Obama never made deans list while he was there. Transferring to an Ivy League school is much harder than getting in in the first place (students who attend from start to finish as much more likely to begome regular contributors as alumni, and that's ultimately what it's all about), and average grades don't cut it.

 

My conclusions about his Occidental career are primarily based on the Occindental FAX on Obama:

http://www.oxy.edu/x7992.xml

Neither Obama’s image nor name appear in any Occidental yearbooks or weekly student newspaper for the years he attended.

I believe that most schools publish the Dean's list and other honors (but it is possible Occidental doesn't).

 

And if Occidental is such a fine school, it raises the question of how he got in with B- grades in High School (I'm less confident about that claim. It is repeated a lot, but I have never seen the source.)

 

And here's a summary of the rest of what is known about his grades:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_were_Barack...ades_in_college

 

Note that this link estimates Obama as having finished in the top 10% at Harvard based on getting Magna Cum Laude. We discussed this in another thread, the upshot of which is that the 10% percentile that it corresponds to is for today (according to a University spokesman), and it has changed over time - they have not said what it was then. For decades elite schools have been trying to reel in the dramatic grade inflation that occured in the 70's - I believe more like 20% received that distinction back then. (My guesstimate was based on google searching Harvard Magna Cum Laudes of the period and comparing the number of individuals that came up with the size of thje graduating classes. It's a weak guess, but it's all we have.)

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

Sorry, alumni status is not transferable. Dad having attended Harvard doesn't get you transferred into Columbia. It doesn't even get you transferred into Harvard unless he is a contributor or you have the grades.

 

Occidental may be a fine school, but Obama never made deans list while he was there. Transferring to an Ivy League school is much harder than getting in in the first place (students who attend from start to finish as much more likely to begome regular contributors as alumni, and that's ultimately what it's all about), and average grades don't cut it.

 

My conclusions about his Occidental career are primarily based on the Occindental FAX on Obama:

http://www.oxy.edu/x7992.xml

 

I believe that most schools publish the Dean's list and other honors (but it is possible Occidental doesn't).

 

And if Occidental is such a fine school, it raises the question of how he got in with B- grades in High School (I'm less confident about that claim. It is repeated a lot, but I have never seen the source.)

 

And here's a summary of the rest of what is known about his grades:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_were_Barack...ades_in_college

 

Note that this link estimates Obama as having finished in the top 10% at Harvard based on getting Magna Cum Laude. We discussed this in another thread, the upshot of which is that the 10% percentile that it corresponds to is for today (according to a University spokesman), and it has changed over time - they have not said what it was then. For decades elite schools have been trying to reel in the dramatic grade inflation that occured in the 70's - I believe more like 20% received that distinction back then. (My guesstimate was based on google searching Harvard Magna Cum Laudes of the period and comparing the number of individuals that came up with the size of thje graduating classes. It's a weak guess, but it's all we have.)

Transferring is not harder, in fact it is a dirty little secret that is easier. I transferred into GW undergrad without the grades, my brother transferred into Berkeley Law School from Buffalo. I don't know specifics about Harvard transfers, but others if you work it well and have the right recommendations you can do it.

[Kelly the Dog]

Sorry, alumni status is not transferable. Dad having attended Harvard doesn't get you transferred into Columbia. It doesn't even get you transferred into Harvard unless he is a contributor or you have the grades.

 

Occidental may be a fine school, but Obama never made deans list while he was there. Transferring to an Ivy League school is much harder than getting in in the first place (students who attend from start to finish as much more likely to begome regular contributors as alumni, and that's ultimately what it's all about), and average grades don't cut it.

 

My conclusions about his Occidental career are primarily based on the Occindental FAX on Obama:

http://www.oxy.edu/x7992.xml

 

I believe that most schools publish the Dean's list and other honors (but it is possible Occidental doesn't).

 

And if Occidental is such a fine school, it raises the question of how he got in with B- grades in High School (I'm less confident about that claim. It is repeated a lot, but I have never seen the source.)

 

And here's a summary of the rest of what is known about his grades:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_were_Barack...ades_in_college

 

Note that this link estimates Obama as having finished in the top 10% at Harvard based on getting Magna Cum Laude. We discussed this in another thread, the upshot of which is that the 10% percentile that it corresponds to is for today (according to a University spokesman), and it has changed over time - they have not said what it was then. For decades elite schools have been trying to reel in the dramatic grade inflation that occured in the 70's - I believe more like 20% received that distinction back then. (My guesstimate was based on google searching Harvard Magna Cum Laudes of the period and comparing the number of individuals that came up with the size of thje graduating classes. It's a weak guess, but it's all we have.)

 

This is a pretty fascinating article from the LA Times that came out when he was announced as the President of the Law Review, and no one knew who he was. It recounts his education and says the Law Review position is the highest honor a student can achieve there.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymi...k-obama-ha.html

[finknottle]

This is a pretty fascinating article from the LA Times that came out when he was announced as the President of the Law Review, and no one knew who he was. It recounts his education and says the Law Review position is the highest honor a student can achieve there.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymi...k-obama-ha.html

 

I'm not criticizing the basic facts, but it is a puff-piece. It is spun to make his story more compelling. Saying that being elected president of the law review is a greater honor than, say, graduting first from Harvard Law is a bit dubious.

 

The piece also suggests that he was made an editor on the strength of his grades. That's not the full story, as best I understand it. Students decide whether they want to participate - it's an extracurricular activity. Of those that nominate themselves, the current members vote on them. Obviously grades are the most important factor, but they are not the only factor. What the article doesn't tell you - and in fact leads you to believe otherwise - was that race was an important advantage in getting elected an editor. The original story (published in the NYT) recounted how the members of the law school review had been actively agitating for more minorities on the faculty and more minorities in visible student positions. In particular, they publically called for more minorities on the Review. I those days, as long as Obama was at Harvard Law and wasn't a drooling idiot, it's a pretty safe bet he would be elected if he wanted to join. As it was, Harvard Law had significantly greater minority representation than law schools nationwide. (And I think greater than the population as a whole, but I don't remember for sure.)

 

An analogous issue arises with being elected president. The other editors choose among themselves, were very motivated to elect a woman or a minority, and I'd be willing to bet that their deciding criteria had nothing to do with grades and everything to do with personality and likability.

 

Btw, my issue with all of this has nothing to do with his grades or how much of his success was an artifact of affirmative action. I really don't think it matters, what matters is where you are now. Rather, I am indignant at the media's complicity in building him up as a great scholar without any investigation (the same willfull ignorance which led us to believe that Bush was drunken boozer and Kerry a serious scholar, while in fact Kerry's grades at Yale were lower than Bush's), and the curious position of celebrating the first African-American president while steadfastly refusing any discussion of what should be a timely topic, affirmative action. How is it that in three presidential debates it never occured to anyone to ask him his plans for affirmative action? More, less, stay the course, or what?

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Btw, my issue with all of this has nothing to do with his grades or how much of his success was an artifact of affirmative action. I really don't think it matters, what matters is where you are now. Rather, I am indignant at the media's complicity in building him up as a great scholar without any investigation (the same willfull ignorance which led us to believe that Bush was drunken boozer and Kerry a serious scholar, while in fact Kerry's grades at Yale were lower than Bush's), and the curious position of celebrating the first African-American president while steadfastly refusing any discussion of what should be a timely topic, affirmative action. How is it that in three presidential debates it never occured to anyone to ask him his plans for affirmative action? More, less, stay the course, or what?

 

I agree. Affirmative action is something that my friends and I debate all the time and we were wondering why it has been a completely avoided subject. Obviously, the war and the economy take precedence, but I would have liked to see it discussed.

[SD Jarhead]

If the fact that a black person can run and (maybe) be elected at President doesn't completely discredit the need for A. Action, than I don't know what does. Bottom line- you can be whatever you want to be in the great nation with the right G-2, drive and desire.

 

If Obama wants to be a uniter the first thing he should do as President is eliminate all Affirmative Action laws.

 

I know...never happen. If anything, he'll make even more laws to help the homeys...

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

If the fact that a black person can run and (maybe) be elected at President doesn't completely discredit the need for A. Action, than I don't know what does. Bottom line- you can be whatever you want to be in the great nation with the right G-2, drive and desire.

 

If Obama wants to be a uniter the first thing he should do as President is eliminate all Affirmative Action laws.

 

I know...never happen. If anything, he'll make even more laws to help the homeys...

 

I think that if affirmative action has to exist, it should be based on the student's family's income, not race. Because it is true that poorer children go to poor schools, have larger classes, worse textbooks and supplies, not as many opportunities to pad the resume with extra curriculars, less likely to be properly prepared for the SAT, etc, etc.

 

What I don't understand is why affirmative action should be racially oriented. What about the white kid that grew up in the slums right next to the black and hispanic kids affirmative action is geared toward? Where's his head start? That white kid had to deal with not only being poor, but also being a minority at his school.

 

And how about the wealthy black kid? Why should he get an upper hand over his equally wealthy peers?

[Kelly the Dog]

Btw, my issue with all of this has nothing to do with his grades or how much of his success was an artifact of affirmative action. I really don't think it matters, what matters is where you are now. Rather, I am indignant at the media's complicity in building him up as a great scholar without any investigation (the same willfull ignorance which led us to believe that Bush was drunken boozer and Kerry a serious scholar, while in fact Kerry's grades at Yale were lower than Bush's), and the curious position of celebrating the first African-American president while steadfastly refusing any discussion of what should be a timely topic, affirmative action. How is it that in three presidential debates it never occured to anyone to ask him his plans for affirmative action? More, less, stay the course, or what?

First, I linked the article not necessarily because of its exploration of grades, there really wasnt much there. But rather because it was "fascinating" to me that he sounded then just as he did now, that he brought people together after charming them with both brains and charisma. That he didnt do what was expected of him, help out just the black students, that conservatives chose him over other students (maybe he's not the most liberal person) and that he turned down huge opportunities to serve, with his sights set on politics. That's a confident guy who knows where he is going, and his rise at Harvard to be the first black President of Law Review, which you seem to want to attribute to AA, mirrors his rise to the Presidency 20 years later.

 

Also, if you know anything about higher education, and you surely seem to by your posts on this, you would know that a place like Columbia or Harvard doesnt at ALL need a quota of Affirmative Action to fawn all over a bi-racial student named Barack Obama who lived in Hawaii and Indonesia, with a brilliant father, and an ability to write. That's exactly (and genuinely) the kind of person they love to admit to their schools, with or without affirmative action.

[Chef Jim]

Work? Obama's gonna win man, no one has to go to work anymore!

 

Cool. It's 10:00pm I've been here at work since 8:00am. So I'll never have to work like this again?

[Alaska Darin]

Wow. They won't release Obama's client list as a lawyer, his community work with the Annenberg Foundation, or even his college grades and his thesis on US-Russia relations, yet you guys are going on about the VP candidates medical records.

They're just as concerned about it as the Republitards were when John Kerry wouldn't release his.

 

He won't release his college grades or thesis? This is actually an issue?