Who Will Be More Of A "Savior"

[Guest John S.]

!@#$ing Christ already! No one has been saying we will have a miraculous turnaround once JP starts.

 

All we're saying is that we'd rather take on JP's growing pains now so to have a better shot at the start of 2005, when hopefully new OL are brought in, when McGahee is the starter, and when Josh Reed is no longer on the team.

 

By the way, JP is not made of glass; he's a big boy. He can handle the NFL hits.

85363[/snapback]

Bottom line TD is the problem. After four drafts and four years of free agencys the team lacks leadership and true playmakers. You can see the other dog teams beginning to turn (i.e. Det., San Diego,NYG,Jacksonville,Arizonia, etc.). Some of the best teams in the league are getting major contribution from rookies, first and second year guys. I do not believe it's coaching as much as personnel.

[Typical TBD Guy]

>>>By the way, JP is not made of glass; he's a big boy. He can handle the NFL hits.<<<

 

What has he done to make you so sure?

85371[/snapback]

 

Nothing. You're right. Let's never put him out on an NFL field because he got injured in preseason and so is therefore "injury prone."

 

Why are you wasting your time talking about JP? Don't you have another anti-Henry thread to start? Didn't we lose Sunday's game because of Henry?

[Bill from NYC]

Nothing. You're right. Let's never put him out on an NFL field because he got injured in preseason and so is therefore "injury prone."

 

Why are you wasting your time talking about JP? Don't you have another anti-Henry thread to start? Didn't we lose Sunday's game because of Henry?

85389[/snapback]

 

Come on KH, cool out. I don't want to see what cost us a very possible #1 pick in the 05 draft destroyed. I would love to see him in "spot duty" when healthy, and would rather he doesn't get killed behind this OL.

 

If you want, I will back off and let you continue to kneel at the feet of the latest messiah. Please continue. Oh, and Henry did look good sunday. Is this the proper party line? Keep me informed, OK?

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

It could be done and it could happen...Look at Pittsburgh...The same team

was struggling in their first 2 games with Tommy Maddox at the helm and

then Big Ben comes in relief and with his pocket presence and ability to

escape the heat, he has the steelers moving along at 5-1 and is yet to loose

a game....The same Burress who was invinisible when Maddox was throwing

(because Maddox was locked on to his primary target, Hines Ward) became

the guy who started punishing opposiing defenses for neglecting him

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I don't think anyone is arguing that it can't be done that a rookie QB can come in and win. To do so would fly in the face of the reality of Big Ben (or RoboQB as I like to call him) or that he could not learn from playing even if he didn't win and his rookie W/L simply sucked like Peyton Manning. I think the arguments are that no one is mistaking the rookie JP for the rookie Peyton Manning in terms of talent. In addition, as many thought that the skill set shown by RoboQB as a collegian actually equalled that of Eli Manning and Philip Rivers while it would have shocked no one if JP lasted into the early second round, no one is even mistaking JP for Big Ben.

 

Contributing rookie QBs are the exception rather than the rule. In fact their contributing is such an exception that there are far more examples of rookie QBs who seemed to profit alot in their development by sitting and learning the Pro game as rookies and then contributing tons and making the playoffs as second year QBs (definitely more talented players like Vick, probably more talented like Brady and similar regarded talents like Pennington).

 

I would be overjoyed to see JP step in and contribute immediately and even lead the team to an SB miracle this year. However, i would bet several ranches and several dogs this won't happen.

 

In real life looking at JPs skill set and history, he simply will need a lot of learning and work (like all NFL rookies) before I would guess he will be a credible NFL QB. Among these pieces are:

 

1, Play at pro speed and against pro talent which simply cannot be replicated in college.

2. Do a bunch of playbook learning to get the Bills offense aand NFL offenses down.

3, Work on his mechanics so he can develop the consistency and SOP that are a part of running the oversystematized NFL offenses of today successfully. Hewas running for his life consistently and made a bunch of great throws from rediculous positions in order to make plays in college. However, this ain't the college game against college level talent for him anymore. If JP throws off the wrong foot and with bad balance as he did in college pro defenders will eat him alive. Bills receivers seem to have problems being where supposed to be on plays everybody is running and if they consistently need to wait or alter their routes because JP is busy freelancing passes will not be completed.

4. See a bunch of defenses so he can diagnose what opponents are doing and choose and implement a response that burns them.

5. Be a leader of his team.

 

Of these items, I like what JP has show on item one, but there are serious questions regarding his game on items 2 and 3 and a question for all rookies on item 4. I like the spirit he has shown which gives me great hope for him on item 5.Playing time and playing QB will actually help him most with item 1 and is the only thing that will give this to him. However, its the least of my worries about him. I think he learns the most about item 2 by becoming Sam Wyches best fried. i think he gets item 3 down by spending repetivie time on the practice field. I think that nothing replaces seeing Ds up close and personal on the field, but the lionshare of learning here for him is probably best done by watcing tape and sitting in the booth with Wyche. I think developing a habit of losing and struggling with a Bills O over the last ten games has equal potential to undercut his leadership ability and in fact presents more of a chance of this happening if he isn't ready mentally as is doubtful rather than assertive out there or even worse confident but consistently wrong.

 

I say tell us fans to go jump if we demand JP play and MM/Clements/Wyche judge him not to be ready yet in terms of his injury or for developing a Pro brain.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Nothing. You're right. Let's never put him out on an NFL field because he got injured in preseason and so is therefore "injury prone."

 

Why are you wasting your time talking about JP? Don't you have another anti-Henry thread to start? Didn't we lose Sunday's game because of Henry?

85389[/snapback]

 

 

I like Howard Simon's estimation that the earliest you would see Losman start is November 21st against St. Louis. The indicators Howard apparently sees is that it is at least 2-3 weeks before he has recoved enough from the fractured leg to practice with the team and play. Further, it would be nuts to send him into Foxboro against BB in his first game so he sees his earliest start being at home against an offensive minded St. Louis team.

 

This strikes me as possible but even that remotely so as Losman is the disaster QB right now and there is certainly no guarantee that he even bests out Matthews for the back-up job right now. I think he is better than Matthews and will oass him like he is standing still on the depth chart but next year is more likely than this year for a rookie who has yet to play a real game against an NFL D and had some mechanical issues in college as he habitually was running for his life.

 

The irony here is that the injury may have been the best thing for his development if he used his time wisely. If he sat upstairs during games and watched NFL Os and Ds unfold with Sam Wyche predicting and explaining things to him, he may be more ready to go. Certainly than he would have been carrying the clipboard and paling around on the sidelines with players during games.

 

We havwe seen what can happen when you rush a QB in to play before he can handle it with the development of Todd Collins as the Bills drafted a replacement for Kelly a year later than they should and when his concussion against Jax knocked him out of football, we were forced to play him before his happy feet and other problems were trained out of him.

 

It would be great if JP wer our savior, but last I heard as good as I think and hope he is he does not walk on water. Even worse the idea that he must play to learn is true but the idea also that he must learn before he plays seems to apply even more in his case.

[MDH]

Come on KH, cool out. I don't want to see what cost us a very possible #1 pick in the 05 draft destroyed. I would love to see him in "spot duty" when healthy, and would rather he doesn't get killed behind this OL.

 

If you want, I will back off and let you continue to kneel at the feet of the latest messiah. Please continue. Oh, and Henry did look good sunday. Is this the proper party line? Keep me informed, OK?

85398[/snapback]

 

What makes you think the oline will be better next year? When is the last time this Oline was any good? Put him out there and let him get used to playing behind this Oline, because he's going to have a few years of it to come.

[seq004]

In no way shape or form do I believe JP will be a Savior as a Rookie QB. The fact is, the odds are high that JP will struggle at times, regardless of what Big Ben is doing in Pittsburgh...

 

That being said I firmly believe that, when healthy, JP must be inserted. I'm a football guy, and ex-athlete (with the emphasis on EX), and the argument some have (no one in particular) about keeping JP out of harms way due to our less than average O-Line just does not compute with me. Any athlete worth his salt, especially a QB, should be itching to get on the Field. The cream always rises, and if JP's the real deal, it will show quickly. And this just in, chances are JP will get hurt behind this, or any O-Line. What QB does not get hurt? Sure there are a few, but they are certainly few and far between. Where would the Bills have been without Frank Reich? And that was behind an O-Line that had 4 out of 5 Starters go to the Pro Bowl at some time during their Bills Career. Plus, NFL Football is a Game where injury can happen at any second, regardless of contact...Just look at JP's injury...Stuff happens in the NFL...It's a brutally tough Sport...

 

There are 2 main reasons I want JP on the Field as soon as he's physically capable. The 1st reason is getting him a jump start on 2005. Every down JP takes in a Regular Season Game is a lesson learned. The 2nd reason is simply the addition by subtraction that should be the result of getting Drew the heck out of there...Anyone who does not feel Drew's poor performances over the past 2 years have effected this Team mentally in a negative fashion, just does not understand Team Sports, and especially Football...Simply put, there is no single position that can spark, or kill, a Teams psyche like the QB position...

 

The Bills are now 10-20 in the last 30 Games with Drew as a Starter. So... believe this, write it down, print it and copy it for posterity purposes, when Drew is gone you will hear how much this Team had given up on him, and how long that feeling had existed in the Locker Room. You'll never here it now, but when he's gone it will ring out like a siren...That is my personal guarantee...I'm not saying the Players will rip DB a new one because he's too nice a guy to beat up like that. But it will be crystal clear that the need for change has been felt among the Players for some time now...These guys are Jocks, they are Pro's, and I firmly believe they know better than anyone that a change is more than necessary...

 

So back to the initial point, yes I think JP should be inserted ASAP because I think every minute Bledsoe is in there is a another minute the Players seperate themselves from the belief that this Organization wants to do everything in their power (on the Field) to win as soon as possible...

 

And yes JP will struggle just like Elway, Manning, and a slew of others before him. But if he is that good, it will be apparent (in small ways, and in non-tangible ways) almost from the get go...Like I said, the cream always rises to the top...And QB's who are respected and believed in by their Team inspire better performances by their Teammates...JMO... B)

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The best freakin post I've seen on this subject. I too believe that the players have given up on Bledsoe and most likely it was back in the Oakland game. I think the recievers and tight ends are willing and waiting for someone to consistantly get them the ball and start to see some improvement on offense. They know as well as the fans know that Bledsoe will not get it done and that new blood while he won't save the season can at least give some things that Deadslow can't such as leadership and an attitude on offense that Drew never pocessed. I think JP will struggle the way most rookie QB's will struggle but you can't say he will be worse than Drew because that's hard to believe and even if he does who cares? Drew already killed our team and the season is over in week 7. Bill in NYC your posts make no sense at all. We're not calling him a savior. He needs reps in real games for next year and so does Willis. The season is OVER so start getting the future of this team going and you never know what if the Bills win more games with JP will you be shocked? I won't

[Bill from NYC]

What makes you think the oline will be better next year?  When is the last time this Oline was any good?  Put him out there and let him get used to playing behind this Oline, because he's going to have a few years of it to come.

85419[/snapback]

 

That Sir, is a very valid question. Call me crazy but in 02, I thought that McKinnie was ours. In 03 there was Steinbach, and last year I was looking at Snee, Smiley etc. For that matter, I wanted Hutchinson in 01.

Posters think that there is some miracle cure for the OL. There is not. Want some good news? Price is playing well. He is enthusiastic, agile, and imo at least as good overall as Jennings. Hopefully he will improve, but there are still holes at LG and OC. RT? Forget about it.

 

My post was as much about TD as anything else. He gave up the world for this kid. I want JP in there, but not for entire games. Not yet. This franchise needs to bounce back. If he is hurt, we will have an injured top 5 pick, and a #4 that sucks.

 

How long would it take any team to bounce back from this?

[KurtGodel77]

I think he is better than Matthews and will oass him like he is standing still on the depth chart but next year is more likely than this year for a rookie who has yet to play a real game against an NFL D and had some mechanical issues in college as he habitually was running for his life.

 

85415[/snapback]

 

Since he was running for his life in college, he'll feel right at home here in Buffalo.

[KOKBILLS]

Thank you for a sincere, well thought post.

I too think that Drew is all but done. He still has the tools, but so did RJ. WHY is he done?

He is the latest victim of the Bills OL and dumb organization. KOK, you know as well as I do that ANY qb needs blocking.

That said, it is too late for Drew. He has been sacked what, 125 times in the last two and one half years? Many were unobstructed blasts, coming from the side of a big bag of 36 million dollar stevestojan, Mike Williams. Others came from "Jennings ala Cart," and the rest of these useless douchebags that TD fielded as an offensive line.

Sure, put him in, but keep your fingers crossed, because Mike Williams is going to miss blocks like the indifferent, out of shape slob that he is. Leonard Smith? Come now. How about when Teague comes back? Whoopdie !@#$ing doo!!! He is worse than Tucker imo.

My point is that TD created this sad state of affairs. JP is just the latest messiah of TSW. Again, Drew is finished. OK? TD gave up perhaps the first pick in the 05 draft for JP, the 4th qb chosen in 04 because he is an inept dunce.

Perhaps we might want to be careful and at least break him in slowly before we line him up behind this garbage.

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I hear where your coming from...I really do...

 

And I think as Bills Fan for my entire life I can say we really all want the same thing here, we just differ on how to get there...No doubt there is a certain amount of hope invoved concerning playing JP behind this Line. I think the problem may very well lie in the message it sends to the Team. I think there could be a problem if the Bills Coaches waffle on this one, and personally (and biasedly admitted) I think it's just better to hand the keys to JP and let him drive...

 

But if it can be understood that JP will be worked in slowly, I guess that's an option. Problem being if one of the two plays poorly, and you still play both, do the Players believe the Coaches are doing everthing to win the Game...Tough call there...

 

And I'll say this too Bill from NYC, your criticism of TD is completely warranted, and impossible for at least this Bills fan to argue with. My main argument vs. Bledsoe has always been a bottom line arguement...10-20 in the last 30 and so on...If you hold TD to the same test, he has failed also...The record does not lie, and TD's win/loss record in Buffalo is just brutal...It is what it is... B)