Obama will bankrupt the coal industry

[ieatcrayonz]

So, how would getting rid of the sole use for coal... not bankrupt the industry? What if we banned cars, wouldn't that put gas stations out of business?

Lawnmowers.

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

he said the cost of operating a coal powered plant would bankrupt them (the plant) because the amount of emissions would cost big bucks. Not the coal industry :wallbash:

 

and that's pretty much true of ANY cap and trade system, which, oh by the way, McCain supports.

 

the reason is that coal fired power plants are the primary emitter of greenhouse gases, besides the millions of automobiles.

 

but nice try on the propaganda

Yeh I know the McPalin folks are at it lying again... He fully supports clean coal and a lot of it comes out of this area, but it is another McPalin scaaaaary tactic of desperation. Coal is fine and a largely untapped resources when processed fired with the proper scrubbers. It is costly when it is not.

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

Because the cost will never be passed on to the consumer.

It already is in high asthma levels and sick days on the east coast then average. You can track area air quality down wind of these dirty plants, especially at night when a lot of these plants are operational. So it is one of those, you can pay me now or pay me this year costs sent on to businesses and their employees operating downwind.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

You might not like this link, but I encourage you to search further for yourself.

 

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/lippo.htm

 

The quid pro quo delivered by the the Clintion adm. locking up U.S. low-sulfur coal in exchange for the Lippo Group's campaign contributions comes back to haunt...

 

Don't forget to pay your energy bills this Winter. You might want to by an inefficient space heater from the Chinese built by factories using "dirty" coal, if that helps.

I will admit, I never even heard of the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument before reading this. A couple of things come out for me...

 

It sounds like this is a spectacular area, from a visual and historic standpoint. I've been to Bryce Canyon and it's totally amazing to see, so I'm not surprised that it's been protected from development.

 

However, if even part of the allegations are true, what Clinton did to help his friends is disgusting to say the least.

 

The world is a different place than it was in 1996, and just maybe the mining restriction could be revisited. Much like many people are now in favor of offshore drilling that weren't in the past.

 

I'm not a fan of Bill Clinton. He did some good things, he was in the right place at the right time from an economic standpoint (mostly the dotcom boom), but many of his choices were really bad. The pardons at the end of his administration come to mind. So, I'm not surprised at all that he might have made a sweetheart deal with cronies.

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

You might not like this link, but I encourage you to search further for yourself.

 

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/lippo.htm

 

The quid pro quo delivered by the the Clintion adm. locking up U.S. low-sulfur coal in exchange for the Lippo Group's campaign contributions comes back to haunt...

 

Don't forget to pay your energy bills this Winter. You might want to by an inefficient space heater from the Chinese built by factories using "dirty" coal, if that helps.

And Rep. Bill Orton and House Dems were blindsided over that one. I don't anything about the Lippo group and Republican accusations of their involvement in Clinton dealings, but there were a lot of House Dems pissed about that one right before the election.

[stuckincincy]

I will admit, I never even heard of the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument before reading this. A couple of things come out for me...

 

It sounds like this is a spectacular area, from a visual and historic standpoint. I've been to Bryce Canyon and it's totally amazing to see, so I'm not surprised that it's been protected from development.

 

However, if even part of the allegations are true, what Clinton did to help his friends is disgusting to say the least.

 

The world is a different place than it was in 1996, and just maybe the mining restriction could be revisited. Much like many people are now in favor of offshore drilling that weren't in the past.

 

I'm not a fan of Bill Clinton. He did some good things, he was in the right place at the right time from an economic standpoint (mostly the dotcom boom), but many of his choices were really bad. The pardons at the end of his administration come to mind. So, I'm not surprised at all that he might have made a sweetheart deal with cronies.

 

Do a search on Bruce Babbitt, Clinton's Secretary of the Interior. Don't miss the Indian gaming deals...

[molson_golden2002]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate...p;type=politics

 

It's not true.

 

But the Drudge Report, the Republican National Committee and apparently even GOP VP candidate Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin fell for completely fabricated news from a shady website called Newsbusters today suggesting the San Francisco Chronicle has ''hidden'' audio with Sen. Barack Obama regarding his statements on coal.

 

''Barack Obama explained his plan to the San Francisco Chronicle this year,'' she told a rally in Ohio Sunday. ''He said that sure, if the industry wants to build coal-fired power plants, then they can go ahead and try, he says, but they can do it only in a way that will bankrupt the coal industry.''

 

She added, ''And you've got to listen to the tape.''

 

''Why is the audiotape just now surfacing?'' Palin asked the crowd, according to a report from CBS News. Someone in the crowd shouted, ''Liberal media!'

 

Let's be very clear: the Chronicle did not, and has never, hidden any interview, audio or video, of Obama from its readers.

 

The truth: the paper's January editorial board session with Obama included comments about coal. The entire interview has been in the public domain, available on line to the public -- and to the McCain campaign -- since early January.

[Fingon]

Get ready for electricity prices to go up 100-200%. 50% of our electricity comes from coal plants, which will take a gigantic hit from any cap-and-trade policy. This will cause millions to not be able to afford power for their homes.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Get ready for electricity prices to go up 100-200%. 50% of our electricity comes from coal plants, which will take a gigantic hit from any cap-and-trade policy. This will cause millions to not be able to afford power for their homes.

that's a ridiculous prediction.

 

nobody knows how much and when any electricity rate increase will occur, and since both candidates support cap and trade, we're DOOMED either way

[Fingon]

that's a ridiculous prediction.

 

nobody knows how much and when any electricity rate increase will occur, and since both candidates support cap and trade, we're DOOMED either way

How is it ridiculous? Extreme taxes on the largest energy source in our country WILL translate to outrageous price increases. It's not hard to understand. Either they raise prices very significantly, or they go out of business, and if they go out of business prices go way up anyways.

 

 

PS: I've never heard McCain say he wanted to put coal power plants out of business.

[molson_golden2002]

How is it ridiculous? Extreme taxes on the largest energy source in our country WILL translate to outrageous price increases. It's not hard to understand. Either they raise prices very significantly, or they go out of business, and if they go out of business prices go way up anyways.

 

 

PS: I've never heard McCain say he wanted to put coal power plants out of business.

Higher prices will lead to more conservation and lower prices!

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

How is it ridiculous? Extreme taxes on the largest energy source in our country WILL translate to outrageous price increases. It's not hard to understand. Either they raise prices very significantly, or they go out of business, and if they go out of business prices go way up anyways.

 

 

PS: I've never heard McCain say he wanted to put coal power plants out of business.

because you don't know how much nor even when prices might increase and utilities don't go out of business. Nobody knows what carbon caps will cost on existing plants, nor what utilities could do at that time to reduce emissions.

 

PS: Barack Obama didn't say he wanted to put coal power plants out of business. He said new plants using existing methodologies could go bankrupt.

[DC Tom]

because you don't know how much nor even when prices might increase and utilities don't go out of business. Nobody knows what carbon caps will cost on existing plants, nor what utilities could do at that time to reduce emissions.

 

PS: Barack Obama didn't say he wanted to put coal power plants out of business. He said new plants using existing methodologies could go bankrupt.

 

So not knowing the ramifications makes this a good idea?

 

I, for one, would rather see a coherent analysis of the downstream ramifications than jump to some of the idiotic conclusions in this thread. But it's pretty damn hard to argue that there won't be a financial cost passed on to the consumer, even if it's only on "new" plants.

 

Hell, even if this were to apply to only new plants...the anti-nuclear lobby did almost this exact same thing in the '70s and '80s: regulate the industry to the point where it becomes operationally cost-prohibitive. But I'm sure it'd be different this time...

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

So not knowing the ramifications makes this a good idea?

 

I, for one, would rather see a coherent analysis of the downstream ramifications than jump to some of the idiotic conclusions in this thread. But it's pretty damn hard to argue that there won't be a financial cost passed on to the consumer, even if it's only on "new" plants.

 

Hell, even if this were to apply to only new plants...the anti-nuclear lobby did almost this exact same thing in the '70s and '80s: regulate the industry to the point where it becomes operationally cost-prohibitive. But I'm sure it'd be different this time...

I'm not saying this is a good idea or a bad one. I just feel this ridiculous need to inform idjits that distort positions, take soundbites from partisan sources and billboard them, or to inform people that simply don't understand the issue (mostly because they never even bother to), etc. One of my many faults.

 

I do think that focusing on the heavy hitters in greenhouse gases makes sense, but until we see real numbers, nobody knows what the actual impact will be. So, it's ridiculous to start forecasting, hence my response to Fingon...

 

I also agree that ultimately the bulk of the cost will be passed on to consumers.

 

You probably don't agree with Obama's positions on a lot of things, but he's a pretty smart guy. There's no way he's going to allow an entire industry, like preventing any new electricity generation from coal-fired plants, to go down the tubes without some reasonable alternative strategy in place.

[DC Tom]

You probably don't agree with Obama's positions on a lot of things, but he's a pretty smart guy. There's no way he's going to allow an entire industry, like preventing any new electricity generation from coal-fired plants, to go down the tubes without some reasonable alternative strategy in place.

 

So you somehow think the federal government becomes less of a hidebound bureaucracy and somehow becomes magically more efficient and logical when a "smart guy" is in the White House? Or that Congress wouldn't inflate the legislation with pork, then under-fund it (e.g. NCLB)? Or that the "carbon credit" market will be some magically efficient and honest market, unlike every other market in history (one word: Enron. Two more words: mortgage bonds.)?

 

Contrary to popular delusion, the president isn't all-powerful. Not even Obama and his herd of rainbow-farting unicorns. Even if he's the brightest, most perfectest president that ever lived, he's still got to deal with a bureacuracy that makes elephants look lithe, the self-serving Congressional whores, and the simple and unavoidable friction that comes from theory being great in theory, but not so much in reality.

 

And you're counter to that is...hope that it won't be so? Good plan...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

he is in favor of clean coal technology, do you even have a clue of what that means?

You mean like your hero W?