The bottom line: The O-line kills everything

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Well we certainly ra nthe ball better last year, and also had less sacks. Not sure what point you're trying to prove.

 

I will say one difference beteen JP and TE. TE keeps the chains moving. JP had one play, throw it long and once in awhile it would work. Yeah there were some bad turnovers, but considering he's as second year QB and essentially is being asked to take over the game on his arm. We're not even trying to run, so all things considered, he played well. The problem is when a defense knows the other team can't run and is just going to keep passing, it makes their life much easier. Eventually it will catch up with you.

 

 

This is interesting. Any stats to compare how the running games did with JP vs TE?

[Orton's Arm]

You can't win if you can't run the ball. If all you do is pass, then defenses can tee off on you. That is what we are seeing. Nobody respects our run game. All you Peters apologists can start defending that tub of crap right now. Where's Mister-pay-me-like-a-Pro-Bowl-Left-Tackle? Fowler? His head is doing a Linda Blair from rushers going by him. Whittle? I have never seen a lineman who doesn't notice a blitzer run by him by inches...INCHES!! So stop debating over JP/TE. We could have Tom friggin' Brady in there and he would suck just as bad behind our fat tub of dog crap O-line.

 

PTR

There's a lot more truth to this post than most people here may realize. I've noticed a tendency among many here to blame problems on Trent even when those problems are largely due to someone else's mistakes. The fumble is a good example--there was a missed block, allowing a Jets defender to get at Trent from his blindside. But no one talks about how we need to stop missing blocks. Instead it's "Trent fumbles too much," "Trent holds the ball too long" "Trent is the reason we lost."

 

As you point out, our run blocking has been nonexistent. Our pass protection has been . . . inconsistent at best for most of the season. Today it seemed better than usual because the Jets were dropping so many men into coverage.

 

Trent has imperfections which need to be corrected, and which he's working hard to correct. The last player I'm worried about is him. But when you don't have an offensive line--and this team clearly does not--a good quarterback can only get you so far.

[Mile High]

You can't win if you can't run the ball. If all you do is pass, then defenses can tee off on you. That is what we are seeing. Nobody respects our run game. All you Peters apologists can start defending that tub of crap right now. Where's Mister-pay-me-like-a-Pro-Bowl-Left-Tackle? Fowler? His head is doing a Linda Blair from rushers going by him. Whittle? I have never seen a lineman who doesn't notice a blitzer run by him by inches...INCHES!! So stop debating over JP/TE. We could have Tom friggin' Brady in there and he would suck just as bad behind our fat tub of dog crap O-line.

 

PTR

Bingo. There's a reason why Lynch isn't breaking the big run or even 100 ypg. This oline is performing waaaaay below average and today it was exposed worst than it was against Miami.

[cale]

You can't win if you can't run the ball. If all you do is pass, then defenses can tee off on you. That is what we are seeing. Nobody respects our run game. All you Peters apologists can start defending that tub of crap right now. Where's Mister-pay-me-like-a-Pro-Bowl-Left-Tackle? Fowler? His head is doing a Linda Blair from rushers going by him. Whittle? I have never seen a lineman who doesn't notice a blitzer run by him by inches...INCHES!! So stop debating over JP/TE. We could have Tom friggin' Brady in there and he would suck just as bad behind our fat tub of dog crap O-line.

 

PTR

 

This O-line have a bunch of phonies in it. I do think Butler & Walker are our best OL this year. But how a line this big can't create holes for our runners is beyond me. The coaches and players that have anything to do with this line should be embarrassed.

 

But what galls me even more is that sometimes TE seems to have all day to throw back there. They are downright bipolar. But in those cases either TE can't find the open guy or the receivers can't shake coverage. Weird.

 

C

[Paup 1995MVP]

Did it ever occur to you the reason TE is holding on to the ball is because the Jets are dropping 8 into coverage because they know the Bills can't run? Again it all comes back to the O-line.

 

PTR

I totally agree. Our O line is just terrible. They have no attitude whatsoever. The O line is supposed to set the tone for your offense. Ours just doesn't seem to care. When was the last time any of them just pancaked guys out of the way for our runners? Jason Peters is so overrated, it is ridiculous. And Dockery is just soft. For my money we can get rid of Peters, Dockery, Fowler and all of our right guards. Play Chambers and Walker at the tackles and bring in three tough guys, doesn't have to be studs in the middle and maybe we can move some defenders off of the line of scrimmage. (Thats right, I think Chambers will play much harder than Peters) Where is the emotion? For a team that is in a dogfight to win the division, there was no sense of urgency out there.

[billfan63]

You can't win if you can't run the ball. If all you do is pass, then defenses can tee off on you. That is what we are seeing. Nobody respects our run game. All you Peters apologists can start defending that tub of crap right now. Where's Mister-pay-me-like-a-Pro-Bowl-Left-Tackle? Fowler? His head is doing a Linda Blair from rushers going by him. Whittle? I have never seen a lineman who doesn't notice a blitzer run by him by inches...INCHES!! So stop debating over JP/TE. We could have Tom friggin' Brady in there and he would suck just as bad behind our fat tub of dog crap O-line.

 

PTR

Where was this reasoning last season after the defining game for the Bills season. After the loss in

Jacksonville where the A train sliced the Jags D for 46 yds. not a word was heard about the running game, after all it was all on the QB. This season the light bulbs goes off?

[cåblelady]

This O-line have a bunch of phonies in it. I do think Butler & Walker are our best OL this year. But how a line this big can't create holes for our runners is beyond me. The coaches and players that have anything to do with this line should be embarrassed.

 

But what galls me even more is that sometimes TE seems to have all day to throw back there. They are downright bipolar. But in those cases either TE can't find the open guy or the receivers can't shake coverage. Weird.

 

C

....and TE needs to survey the field and stop locking on to his target.

[bills44]

....and TE needs to survey the field and stop locking on to his target.

 

Yep. That's been part of the problem these past 2 games.

[Philly McButterpants]

There's a lot more truth to this post than most people here may realize. I've noticed a tendency among many here to blame problems on Trent even when those problems are largely due to someone else's mistakes. The fumble is a good example--there was a missed block, allowing a Jets defender to get at Trent from his blindside. But no one talks about how we need to stop missing blocks. Instead it's "Trent fumbles too much," "Trent holds the ball too long" "Trent is the reason we lost."

 

As you point out, our run blocking has been nonexistent. Our pass protection has been . . . inconsistent at best for most of the season. Today it seemed better than usual because the Jets were dropping so many men into coverage.

 

Trent has imperfections which need to be corrected, and which he's working hard to correct. The last player I'm worried about is him. But when you don't have an offensive line--and this team clearly does not--a good quarterback can only get you so far.

 

True and on the big INT he was wearing a Jets Lineman like a pearl necklace

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Well first off, I think the running game last year was still much better than this year. The reason I'm willing to give TE more of a pass that I would have given JP last year was cause JP was in his 4th year and still making the same errors. If you say the errors yesterday were horrendous by TE and it cost them the game, well kept them in the game then? Even with these errors, they had a chance until the last TD by the Jets. They couldn’t run the ball so how were they staying close? Because TE kept getting first downs. It probably is hard for anyone to appreciate that as it’s been so long since we’ve seen that around here. So there were some good things in spite of the errors.

 

Now look at JP. Last year he came in when TE got hurt, played lights out against Cinncy. People were hoping that making from watching Trent, he finally got the idea. Then the next week, can’t recall whom they played, but he did absolutely nothing all game. The only thing maybe you could count on JP doing was completing one bomb per game. I don’t even think that helped keep the D honest though as they knew, OK just rush the hell out of him and watch out for the long ball. Anything thrown short, he’ll screw up. TE had some accuracy problems last year, that seems to be cleaned up, that was JP’s other issue.

 

So in spite of all the bad negative plays, there was still positives. Last year many games there was no positives, so that’s why I’m willing to more give him a pass on the errors. With no running game and his inexperience, and the fact that the entire offence is on his shoulders, I can’t fault him too much.

 

 

Where was this reasoning last season after the defining game for the Bills season. After the loss in

Jacksonville where the A train sliced the Jags D for 46 yds. not a word was heard about the running game, after all it was all on the QB. This season the light bulbs goes off?

[Orton's Arm]

Well first off, I think the running game last year was still much better than this year. The reason I'm willing to give TE more of a pass that I would have given JP last year was cause JP was in his 4th year and still making the same errors. If you say the errors yesterday were horrendous by TE and it cost them the game, well kept them in the game then? Even with these errors, they had a chance until the last TD by the Jets. They couldn’t run the ball so how were they staying close? Because TE kept getting first downs. It probably is hard for anyone to appreciate that as it’s been so long since we’ve seen that around here. So there were some good things in spite of the errors.

 

Now look at JP. Last year he came in when TE got hurt, played lights out against Cinncy. People were hoping that making from watching Trent, he finally got the idea. Then the next week, can’t recall whom they played, but he did absolutely nothing all game. The only thing maybe you could count on JP doing was completing one bomb per game. I don’t even think that helped keep the D honest though as they knew, OK just rush the hell out of him and watch out for the long ball. Anything thrown short, he’ll screw up. TE had some accuracy problems last year, that seems to be cleaned up, that was JP’s other issue.

 

So in spite of all the bad negative plays, there was still positives. Last year many games there was no positives, so that’s why I’m willing to more give him a pass on the errors. With no running game and his inexperience, and the fact that the entire offence is on his shoulders, I can’t fault him too much.

That was a very good post. I'd like to add to it by pointing out that this year, the offensive line has taken a major step backward in terms of pass protection. It still sometimes shows flashes--a good drive here, a good 4th quarter there. But overall, its pass protection has been extremely unreliable, and in serious need of improvement. Trent took five sacks against the Jets, and that's just not an acceptable level of performance from our offensive line. We're on pace to allow a much higher number of sacks this year than we allowed last year.

[thewildrabbit]

If you watched Mondays press conference with Head coach Dick Jauron,he is aware of the lack of production from the Bills running game. He says the line / backs are in a 'slump' and they will continue to work on getting the run game

[bowery4]

We are already close to that number, I saw it somewhere, and we are only 1/2 though the season.

[jarthur31]

You can't win if you can't run the ball. If all you do is pass, then defenses can tee off on you. That is what we are seeing. Nobody respects our run game. All you Peters apologists can start defending that tub of crap right now. Where's Mister-pay-me-like-a-Pro-Bowl-Left-Tackle? Fowler? His head is doing a Linda Blair from rushers going by him. Whittle? I have never seen a lineman who doesn't notice a blitzer run by him by inches...INCHES!! So stop debating over JP/TE. We could have Tom friggin' Brady in there and he would suck just as bad behind our fat tub of dog crap O-line.

 

PTR

 

Amen brother!

 

People just like to pile on just 1 guy around here.