Ramius Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I tend to agree without researching because thats how new talent gets discovered, but its also common to give the backup RB with good numbers a shot at starting if the running game is not as productive as you would like from your starter. The Big tuna would have probably started Fred Jackson by now. Since you are so hung up on stats, does your statistical analysis take into account the numerous times Fred Jackson has rushed for 10 yards on a draw play on 3rd and 12 or longer? The defense is in obvious pass defense, and the Bills are simply trying to get better position to punt. a 10 yard run on 3rd and 12 is worthless in the grand scheme and does nothing but pad stats.
34-78-83 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Since you are so hung up on stats, does your statistical analysis take into account the numerous times Fred Jackson has rushed for 10 yards on a draw play on 3rd and 12 or longer? The defense is in obvious pass defense, and the Bills are simply trying to get better position to punt. a 10 yard run on 3rd and 12 is worthless in the grand scheme and does nothing but pad stats. Tried to 'splain that myself here: Factors that alter stats
YOOOOOO Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Lynch is on pace to get 1029 yards rushing & 336 receiving.......he isn't having a great statistical year so far this season. Yes he has...a very slow start for sure... But those calling him a a bust are crazy....the dude is money on the goalline...never fumbles...gets tons of yards after contact....has very good hands....has done a excellent job in pass protection.... Let the season play out....I think were going to lean on our RB's going into the winter.... and I bet he ends up with 1600+ total yards by years end...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Since you are so hung up on stats, does your statistical analysis take into account the numerous times Fred Jackson has rushed for 10 yards on a draw play on 3rd and 12 or longer? The defense is in obvious pass defense, and the Bills are simply trying to get better position to punt. a 10 yard run on 3rd and 12 is worthless in the grand scheme and does nothing but pad stats. I'm not drawing any conclusions based soley on stats, its really more on how Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson compare behind the same O-line in the regular season this year. I'm seeing spin moves and shifty running from Jackson and I watch him locate the open spaces and make yardage. He's fast, hard to catch and he may not have the power Lynch does, but he does have power. With Marshawn Lynch I see a straight ahead, down hill runner with lots of power but very little imagination or change up in his running style. Lynch is easy to gameplan against and easier to prevent a big play from happening then Jackson. When I say I would like Fred Jackson to have a chance at starting, its as much out of respect for Freddie Jackson and his good play then the lack of production from Marshawn Lynch. By no means do I want to give up on Lynch, I want Lynch to take a breather and watch from the sidelines. Maybe Lynch can learn a thing or two watching Jackson run. Do I know Jackson will do better starting then Lynch has? Of course not, but he might and he deserves a shot at it because if he succeeds, he only makes us better. I don't care if Marshawn Lynch was picked in the 1st round , I think its time we give Fred jackson a chance. Jackson deserves it and so does the team because you want the best players playing. The O-line is drawing allot of heat when the problem could be at the RB position. You argue that some of Fred Jackson's yardage was useless, I can't argue that, but I will say since Marshawn Lynch is on the field 70% of the time, he has 70% of the garbage yards to go along with it.
YOOOOOO Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I'm not drawing any conclusions based soley on stats, its really more on how Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson compare behind the same O-line in the regular season this year. I'm seeing spin moves and shifty running from Jackson and I watch him locate the open spaces and make yardage. He's fast, hard to catch and he may not have the power Lynch does, but he does have power. With Marshawn Lynch I see a straight ahead, down hill runner with lots of power but very little imagination or change up in his running style. Lynch is easy to gameplan against and easier to prevent a big play from happening then Jackson. When I say I would like Fred Jackson to have a chance at starting, its as much out of respect for Freddie Jackson and his good play, then the lack of production from Marshawn Lynch. By no means do I want to give up on Lynch, I want Lynch to take a breather and watch from the sidelines. Maybe Lynch can learn a thing or two watching Jackson run. Do I know Jackson will do better starting then Lynch has? Of course not, but he might and he deserves a shot at it because if he succeeds, he only makes us better. I don't care if Marshawn Lynch was picked in the 1st round , I think its time we give Fred jackson a chance. Jackson deserves it and so does the team because you want the best players playing. The O-line is drawing allot of heat when the problem could be at the RB position. You argue that some of Fred Jackson's yardage was useless, I can't argue that, but I will say since Marshawn Lynch is on the field 70% of the time, he has 70% of the garbage yards to go along with it. Jackson has been great this season....but the simple fact that about half his yards have come in the 3rd quarter(7.4 a clip) should tell you that maybe, just maybe....there a few reasons for it.... bottom line is Lynch went down with an injury in 1st quarter in Miami....Jackson stepped in as the feature back....in the first half he ran 8 times for 26yds(why do you think that is??)... Jackson got stoned on the goalline....3 chances inside the 5 and he got denied do you think Lynch would have been stopped there??
Guest dog14787 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Jackson has been great this season....but the simple fact that about half his yards have come in the 3rd quarter(7.4 a clip) should tell you that maybe, just maybe....there a few reasons for it.... bottom line is Lynch went down with an injury in 1st quarter in Miami....Jackson stepped in as the feature back....in the first half he ran 8 times for 26yds(why do you think that is??)... Jackson got stoned on the goalline....3 chances inside the 5 and he got denied do you think Lynch would have been stopped there?? YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, is what I feel like bouncing back and forth between two threads. To answer your question, maybe, maybe not, as a power runner, in my opinion its where you want to use Lynch, down deep in the red zone. He's great for short yardage, thats kind of my point.
marauderswr80 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I agree with all the 5. Only thing is if the OL can run block is Lynch a different player? I think so....
thebandit27 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Do you normally struggle with reading comprehension?I explained very very clearly what that tactic was and it wasn't used in any post of mine and never will be. somehow I am not surprised to see you respond by questioning my reading comprehension. It appears that your response to anyone that disagrees with you is to question their intelligence, rather than your argument, which is both inaccurate, subjective, and short-sighted.
Dibs Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Of course you can determine it better in camp. Enough that you'd cut the other 3 RBs you drafted that year & rely on the decision? Or worse yet.....what if all 4 RBs you decided to draft didn't have the goods? Now you don't even have a decent RB. There are plenty of great players found after the 1st round. Of course there is.....the trick is finding that needle in the haystack though isn't it.....or do you figure that that would be easy enough to do? If I feel Lynch is nothing special then finding a replacement isnt all that difficult. Apart from me pointing out that finding an equivalent replacement when you select inside the 1st round is hard enough.....how hard would it be trying to scour the later rounds to find the 'right guy'?
YOOOOOO Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 my only question is why are they not in the backfield together more often......
thebandit27 Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 You are a farce and calling Losman a steward of Buffalo is utterly stooopid. He deserves all the criticism in the world. He was taken out of the lineup for his refusal to manage the game in the manner the coaches wanted him to. Afterwards he blamed it on previous offensive coordinators. If that were the case the head coach would have had him back in there under the new coordinator. But it isn't the case , Losman is on the bench because he was beat out of the job. He needs to point the finger at himself. When he got back in there on the Edwards injury he was the same old Losman constantly looking for the big play taking sacks and fumbling the ball. He is a complete bust at this point and a waste of 3 draft picks. You start by saying that it is utterly stoopid (by the way, very original) to call a guy that moved here from another city and started a foundation with his own money to revitalize downtown Buffalo a steward of the City? Do you think? At all? Ever? Then you shift gears to say "He deserves all the criticism in the world" because he blamed his offensive coordinator. Did anyone complain when Jim Kelly had disagreements with his offensive coordinators? Nope. Know why? Because the team was winning. Period. You're deflecting your disappiontment in him as a player onto his personality, which is totally unfounded. Now to address your opinions that you chose to state (inaccurately) as facts: He was taken out of the game due to injury, then he lost his job because the guy playing behind him is better. Not because he refused to "manage the game". That is completely incorrect. Completely. There's not a fact in the world to back that up. And, just for the record, when Losman got healthy, he DID go back in the game. Sure, he came in for an injured Edwards at the Jets, but he was named the starter (regardless of injury according to Dick Jauron) for the home game against Cincinatti, and proceeded to start at Miami and home against New England before yielding to Edwards, which had nothing to do with injury to either player according to the coaching staff. I'm aware that he hasn't changed since last year. That was never a part of my original post, although I can see why you'd bring that up in order to avoid having to defend the reprehensible position of criticizing someone whose job you couldn't do yourself. Take a look in the mirror before you say that JP is deserving of "all the criticism in the world". How hard do YOU work on your craft? How much responsibility do YOU take? You don't have to answer to me, answer to yourself. Because if you are honest about it I'll bet you find that you are just as, if not more, deserving of criticism in your own right.
UncleBuff Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 NO.....that's why I typed "I'd say a much higher percent of 2nd-5th round RBs are busts" This means that 1st round RBs have a high bust rate......therefore 2nd-5th round RBs would have a MASSIVE bust rate. All you Lynch groupies continue to believe the BEASTMODE hype and deny what your eyes are seeing. Guy is very good,not great. IMO, Def not worthy of a first round pick. I like the cherry picked lists on this thread trying to justify his draft position. How about this list. Middle rounders with a couple of undrafted players. Frank Gore Brian Westbrook Clinton Portis Julius Jones Marion Barber Ryan Grant Willie Parker Michael Turner Leon Washington Ladell Betts. I would take 3-4 of them over ML and the other half are probably just as good. These guys are current players. If you dig back to retired players and compile a list of real good mid round backs the list would be long. I will leave that work for someone else. Believe your eyes, not the hype.
YOOOOOO Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 All you Lynch groupies continue to believe the BEASTMODE hype and deny what your eyes are seeing.Guy is very good,not great. IMO, Def not worthy of a first round pick. I like the cherry picked lists on this thread trying to justify his draft position. How about this list. Middle rounders with a couple of undrafted players. Frank Gore Brian Westbrook Clinton Portis Julius Jones Marion Barber Ryan Grant Willie Parker Michael Turner Leon Washington Ladell Betts. I would take 3-4 of them over ML and the other half are probably just as good. These guys are current players. If you dig back to retired players and compile a list of real good mid round backs the list would be long. I will leave that work for someone else. Believe your eyes, not the hype. You could say that about every position..... the 1st round is just one round.... every year, in every draft....there are more hits in 2 thru 7 then there are in the 1st round..... EVERY YEAR
UncleBuff Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 You could say that about every position..... the 1st round is just one round.... every year, in every draft....there are more hits in 2 thru 7 then there are in the 1st round..... EVERY YEAR And your point is backs like ML should be a mid-round selection?
YOOOOOO Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 And your point is backs like ML should be a mid-round selection? LoL.....
billsfreak Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I agree with the majority of the people in this forum, I don't have much of a problem with 4 of the 5 items you pointed out, but to call Lynch is average is really silly. They don't block for him, half of his yards he has had at least one defender hanging on him and going for a ride, and his motor never stops. I haven't missed a game of his yet, and am still waiting for him to go down on the first hit, never happens. You better get cable by february, because those rabbit ear antenna you are watching that fuzzy/snowy picture on won't work after then.
UncleBuff Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I agree with the majority of the people in this forum, I don't have much of a problem with 4 of the 5 items you pointed out, but to call Lynch is average is really silly. They don't block for him, half of his yards he has had at least one defender hanging on him and going for a ride, and his motor never stops. I haven't missed a game of his yet, and am still waiting for him to go down on the first hit, never happens. You better get cable by february, because those rabbit ear antenna you are watching that fuzzy/snowy picture on won't work after then. Sorry to burst your Beastmode bubble Charlie but while average may be understating his talent he is NOT 1st round material. I would rather see Westbrook, Turner, Gore or Barber behind Trent. Where were they drafted? Believe your eyes not the hype.
deep2evans Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Believe your eyes not the hype. holy crap, what is this dumb sh-- you keep spewing in every post? my eyes tell me marshawn runs as hard as any back i've seen, and the fact he has the quick feet and moves to go along with it makes him quite the combination. if you weren't such a clown, you would realize he just needs some solid blocking up front.
UncleBuff Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 holy crap, what is this dumb sh-- you keep spewing in every post? my eyes tell me marshawn runs as hard as any back i've seen, and the fact he has the quick feet and moves to go along with it makes him quite the combination. if you weren't such a clown, you would realize he just needs some solid blocking up front. Your eyes tell you he runs a hard as any back you have seen?!?!? When did you start watching football, 2007? You ever watch Marion Barber run? Its always the lines fault isnt it. Are you a JP defender also? Whos fault was that, OC, HC, line? So you disagree. Is the name calling nessesary? If so, go back through the thread and see how many "clowns" disagree with you. FWIW, I like ML, think he is good and deserves to start over Jackson. Just think he is NOT the beast he is purported to be and is unworthy of being a 1st rounder.
deep2evans Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Your eyes tell you he runs a hard as any back you have seen?!?!?When did you start watching football, 2007? You ever watch Marion Barber run? Its always the lines fault isnt it. Are you a JP defender also? Whos fault was that, OC, HC, line? So you disagree. Is the name calling nessesary? If so, go back throught the thread and see how many "clowns" disagree with you. FWIW, I like ML, think he is good. Just think he is NOT the beast he is purported to be and is unworthy of being a 1st rounder. Yes, I just started watching football in 2007. Who is JP? Saying something as stupid as "unworthy of being a 1st rounder" exhibits why you're a clown. Did you start watching Marshawn in 2007? Because I started watching Marshawn as a freshman at Cal, and by the time he was done tearing up the Pac-10 he was a sure-fire 1st rounder if I'd ever seen one. But because 20 games into his career he hasn't broken a rushing record like AP shows he wasn't a worthy 1st round pick...unbelievable. And yea lol, there are TONS of people who disagree with me in this thread...I count 3. And they all say the same worthless crap over and over like you do. Where is the Fred Jackson touchdowns in the indoor football league stat when you need it?
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