I need to change your guys ways of thinking

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Whatever they played in the Cardinals and Miami games, it DIDNT WORK. It clearly WAS NOT GOING TO JUST START WORKING AT SOME RANDOM POINT IN THE GAME. Therefore, we need Perry/Dick or anyone for that matter to switch our defenses up, do some sh-- to confuse the quarterbacks.

 

As to the Arizona game, it seemed like we may have ran a lot of cover 3, but in any case, we needed to get out of the soft sh-- and play like men. Only give a 2 yd cushion, blitz, whatever it takes, but goddamn it dont just sit in 8 yd cushions and give them 7 yd passes all game long.

 

The San Diego game, we were in Cover 2 all game long, I witnessed it personally. They hit a 15 yd curl to Jackson/Floyd on just about every big 3rd down. Its a good thing it finally clicked in Fewell's mind to send Mitchell on a blitz, otherwise we could have been in trouble.

 

The Miami game, it seemed like we were in a lot of cover 2, even with Scott up, it was still our basic play. Maybe they put scott on the weak/strong/camarillo side where he'll never really need to cover deep? Maybe he was only in the box on obvious running plays? In any case, our D wasn't working and we did nothing to change it.

 

Basically, my point is, we need to change sh-- if the current sh-- isnt working. It's that simple. We have the players to do it, now all we have to do is use them. Mitchell can blitz, Greer can cover man, and Whitner can ballhawk, but if these players never get the chances, then they'll never do those things, and qbs will tear us up.

 

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, this defense can carry us to a 5-2 record, and probably take us to the playoff, but I can't possibly see it delivering us a playoff win, unless we do blitz and switch things up. Hopefully Fewell notices that.

 

I agree with you that we cannot keep playing scared, just watch the second New England game last year, it doesnt work. But you said that we play C2 90% of the time.

 

Again, we were not in C2 most of the Miami game. If Scott is up at the LOS, and we are in C2, WHO THE HELL IS PLAYING THAT HALF OF THE DEEP ZONE????? I'm sure Camarillo is fast enough to beat a twelve yard zone on a 5 step drop. You are talking out of your ass again. Plus, we were in man everytime they ran the Wildcat, that is the only way a Defense can defend it.

 

I do agree we do need to be way more aggressive though.

[YOOOOOO]

If the Bills are playing strong on the WS of the offense, dont you think the Cards would have audibled out of whatever play they were in and run away from our overshifted defense? I think so. Plus, the cards run a lot of even sets.

 

Again, you rarely run man under when you are anticipating 4 or 5 guys in a pattern, it just doesnt make sense because you are going to have LB's on WRs. The only time the Bills are going to run man under is when we are blitzing which we we did not do that game.

 

We ran all deep zone stuff, T2, C3 and quarters. Warner completed 33 passes for only 260. He would've averaged way more per completion if we were in man. Everything was underneath and in space and since in the C2 is all short zones and takes away the run after the catch, we had to be in deeper coverages.

 

 

I didnt see much C3 going in that game....POZ def didnt drop back at all into deep mid zone.....

 

Quarters is a possibility....that plays to the weakside also with your LB's&NB playing man....which is what we saw alot from POZ in that game.....but did the CB's drop that far off the LOS to play to be in quarters zone...?? idk...

 

 

 

 

def T2

[The Dean]

I'm not a proponent of micromanagement, but abdicating complete responsibility to a DC or OC is not responsible coaching. And if things aren't changing, and you're losing in the same fashion, the HC ought to take responsibility.

 

 

I don't think Dick has ever abdicated responsibility. I don't recall him ever throwing a coordinator under the bus. I think he should be held accountable for his team's performance and his coordinator's actions.

[The Dean]

Bob Sanders seems to make a lot of big plays from his safety spot. They run the same defense, and title aside they play the same position as free and strong are not much different. So he doesn't get many picks, ok I can deal with it, but he misses too many tackles. He missed 2 or 3 on 3rd down situations that would have forced punts vrs. Miami....

 

 

Sanders is an awesome player and really makes a difference in that D. He is called a Strong Safety and the Colts use a C2-type defense. But, do not confuse the way the Colts use Sanders with the way the Bills use Whitner.

 

Whitner is not yet at Sanders' level, but I think the Bills' D might be more devastated with the loss of Whitner than Indy's is with the loss of Sanders.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

I didnt see much C3 going in that game....POZ def did drop back at all into deep mid zone.....

 

Quarters is a possibility....that plays to the weakside also with your LB's&NB playing man....which is what we saw alot from POZ in that game.....but did the CB's drop that far off the LOS to play to be in quarters zone...?? idk...

 

 

 

 

def T2

I think you made a few typos, but I will try to figure it out.

 

If you think the Bills philosophy that game was to have Poz run after Rb's(In the passing game) all day than you are just wrong. What you saw was Warner getting the ball out of his hands quickly and Poz reacting.

 

Here is how I know we played more C3, because Donte was in medium zones all day and he made a bunch of tackles and they didnt beat us deep. Medium zones yield a ton of tackles in the passing game. The one thing that I am sure of though is that we barely played man coverage. Again, man coverage with 4 or 5 Wr's in a pattern makes no sense. The OC for the Cards see this, and they are calling rub plays all day long!

[BillsVet]

I don't think Dick has ever abdicated responsibility. I don't recall him ever throwing a coordinator under the bus. I think he should be held accountable for his team's performance and his coordinator's actions.

 

For the record, I don't equate abdicating responsibility with throwing someone under the bus. Brad Childress is a conservative coach, but diming his players and coaches out (see NO game and punting to Bush) is reprehensible. Thankfully, DJ isn't one of those types.

 

However, every post-game conference is becoming the same. May as well play a tape of the previous week.

 

I agree with your last sentence there, and I'm miffed at why they haven't changed their plans when it's apparent they're not working.

[cantstopbeastmode]

I agree with you that we cannot keep playing scared, just watch the second New England game last year, it doesnt work. But you said that we play C2 90% of the time.

 

Again, we were not in C2 most of the Miami game. If Scott is up at the LOS, and we are in C2, WHO THE HELL IS PLAYING THAT HALF OF THE DEEP ZONE????? I'm sure Camarillo is fast enough to beat a twelve yard zone on a 5 step drop. You are talking out of your ass again. Plus, we were in man everytime they ran the Wildcat, that is the only way a Defense can defend it.

 

I do agree we do need to be way more aggressive though.

Your missing what I'm saying but I can agree to disagree I guess. I don't wanna dispute the 90%, I was just making a point. I guess I didn't explicitly say this, but I was more or less referring to big plays. When we need a stop, what do we do??? I'm not talking about 3rd and 1s, or wildcat, or any other running plays. When its 3rd and 8, what defense will we be in? The cover 2.

 

 

We do the same sh-- too much, whether or not it works. Cover 2, cover 3, man under, whatever. If its not working, go to something else. We really should only do stuff that works instead of beating a dead horse by running the same unsuccessful plays.

 

To comment on Jauron, he really doesn't seem to take any control over the coordinators, even when it seems obvious that he should. Could he be doing so behind the scenes? I guess. But it really doesn't seem like it, and thats one of my biggest problems with the guy. If something isn't done right in a Pats game, Belichick fixes it. Same with Peyton and same with the Giants D. The bills don't, and Jauron will need to learn that for our playoff game, if we get there.

[keepthefaith]

When he's had the most obvious opportunities, it hasn't happened.

 

This is frightening if true. It means either:

 

1. The head coach is not willing to overrule a coordinator.

 

2. The head coach doesn't overrule the coordinator because he doesn't know what to change.

[The Dean]

This is frightening if true. It means either:

 

1. The head coach is not willing to overrule a coordinator.

 

2. The head coach doesn't overrule the coordinator because he doesn't know what to change.

 

 

3. The head coach is on board with the coordinator and thinks the current way is the best, and doesn't need dramatic changing.

 

4. The HC (and possible the coordinator) would like to change, but doesn't think he has the personnel to do what is needed to change successfully.

 

5. ???

 

There are many possible answers to this little conundrum.

[YOOOOOO]

I think you made a few typos, but I will try to figure it out.

 

If you think the Bills philosophy that game was to have Poz run after Rb's(In the passing game) all day than you are just wrong. What you saw was Warner getting the ball out of his hands quickly and Poz reacting.

 

Here is how I know we played more C3, because Donte was in medium zones all day and he made a bunch of tackles and they didnt beat us deep. Medium zones yield a ton of tackles in the passing game. The one thing that I am sure of though is that we barely played man coverage. Again, man coverage with 4 or 5 Wr's in a pattern makes no sense. The OC for the Cards see this, and they are calling rub plays all day long!

 

 

 

But C3 is not a medium zone at all.....Its a 3 deep zone.....with the MLB taking the deep middle....

 

 

WE ran that alot with the old regime, with London....but with the new regime&POZ we rarely play C3.....

 

 

and Man Under is a mix of zone and man....The CB's and MLB play man....while the Safeties play mid zone, and the LB's or LB/NB combo play soft zone.....

[keepthefaith]

3. The head coach is on board with the coordinator and thinks the current way is the best, and doesn't need dramatic changing.

 

4. The HC (and possible the coordinator) would like to change, but doesn't think he has the personnel to do what is needed to change successfully.

 

5. ???

 

There are many possible answers to this little conundrum.

 

 

5. The head coach chooses number 3 above and the results say he should have made a change in strategy.

 

 

I'll save you the reply "hindsight is 20/20".

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

In the last 2 games we have had to run the defense we have been running, because of injuries and matchups. The Chargers game saw DB's moving around to account for Antonio Gates and our injuries. Ko Simpson has been nagged by a hamstring injury, McGee has been slowed with a knee injury, Schobel has been sidelined with a foot injury, Digiorgio is gone on IR and Youboty has been out with a foot injury as well. We have had to make up for all of these losses on the defensive side of the ball. Our #1 Corner and Free Safety have been out, which really hurts our pass defense. Not to mention losing Aaron Schobel, although he has not performed very well, still really hurts our pass rush. None of this helps our backups when they step in to try and help out. Then John Digiorgio, a very good coverage linebacker, gets put on IR ending his season. That hurts. But in my opinion, the biggest hit to this team, defensively, has been Cornerback Ashton Youboty. Youboty was playing "lights out" football at the beginning of the year, and doing it consistently up until he got hurt. He is physical and was making plays all over the field. I think we might need him back the most.

 

All in all, I firmly believe, when healthy, we have 1 of the best (top-15) "All-Around" Secondaries in the league.

-Cornerbacks: McGee, Greer, Youboty, McKelvin, Corner.

- Safeties: Whitner, Simpson, Wilson, Scott, Wendling.

 

Again, when healthy, I like what we have. A lot. I feel very comfortable when we have those starters all out there. Even with the thought and likelyhood of Jabari Greer leaving in Free Agency, I like the future or next couple years of: McGee, McKelvin and Youboty. With Corner and a mid/low round draft pick or a FA signee, rounding out the Cornerbacks. I think George Wilson will be brought back, he is valuable. Then we still will have Whitner, Simpson, Wendling and Scott.

 

1 more side thought...

- If we did need Safety help, I would wish that Buffalo would take a look at Josh Barrett. He was drafted out of Arizona State, by Denver (Practice Squad). He is 6-2, 230 and ran a 4.35 (40 time) at the Combine. Being a Sun Devil fan and following the program for the last few years, he is capable of being a very good player in the NFL. I like his potential.

 

 

 

***Here is a good list of the upcoming Free Agents:

http://www.profootballcentral.com/2009-free-agents/

[keepthefaith]

I don't think Dick has ever abdicated responsibility. I don't recall him ever throwing a coordinator under the bus. I think he should be held accountable for his team's performance and his coordinator's actions.

 

A strong pass rush is fundemental to a winning defense. When you're not getting pressue on the QB as the Bills didn't on Sunday, it's time to try something other than the vanilla 4-man rush. Seems like the Bills did more of that (sent a 5th or 6th rusher) earlier in the season.

[The Dean]

A strong pass rush is fundemental to a winning defense. When you're not getting pressue on the QB as the Bills didn't on Sunday, it's time to try something other than the vanilla 4-man rush. Seems like the Bills did more of that (sent a 5th or 6th rusher) earlier in the season.

 

 

If I had to guess, I'd say the recent rash of injuries in the defensive backfield, and DE, has changed the team's plans, some.

 

EDIT: BTW, i agree with what you are saying about getting pressure on the QB.

[NewEra]

I don't think you guys understand exactly why whitner/simpson aren't "playmakers."

 

So, let me explain...

 

Instead of bitching about whitner not being a playmaker, how about you try understanding exactly what our defense is trying to accomplish? In about 90% of our arizona/miami/chargers plays, we ran the simple cover 2 scheme, with the exception of corners playing about 8 yards off the ball, who knows why???. SAFETIES DEEP, 4 man rush, lbs cover middle zones, and corners cover the sidelines.

 

Now that I've explained that, it is easy for people to understand why whitner/simpson aren't making the big, ballhawking plays. Fewell/Jauron have decided at some point that they are best off telling donte/ko to just sit back there and be conservative SAFETIES. Fewell really uses that term literally.

 

As to the CBs, Fewell inexplicably tells them to get about 8 yards off the ball, and keep everything in front of them. In theory, it makes sense keeping everything in front of you, but not when teams take advantage of that literally all game long, like warner, rivers, and pennington did.

 

When we get no pass rush(which is every time we dont blitz), it forces everything to look easy, and it makes quarterbacking against us very easy, especially compared to teams like the giants. How could Warner have possibly thrown a pick to whitner? He had all day to pick apart our defense, and as a professional, thats what he did.

 

Now, pretty much every DB has taken some heat from you guys, with the exception of greer. Well, its not their individual problem that they arent making plays, it is the problem of the coaching ideas. If we sit in one play all game, then yeah, teams will pick us apart. Yeah, Leodis's coverage won't be amazing looking if hes sitting in a soft zone.

 

If you want McKelvin/Whitner to go and make big plays, then take it up with Fewell. Tell him to let our two TOP PICKS do their things. Let leodis get in man coverage, see what he can do. Let Whitner roam around a little more, and leave the deep ball a little more open. Look at what happened on Greer's INT, he followed his MAN across the field and made an individual play.

 

With all of that said, I completely disagree with Fewell's strategies, I actually think that they directly cost us the arizona game, almost cost us the san diego game, and in part cost us the Miami game. He really needs to grow a set of balls and trust our HIGHLY DRAFTED, TALENTED PLAYERS to make plays. Until he does that, smart qbs will pick us apart all game long.

 

BUT, don't start taking shots at the individual players for their "shortcomings." I'm sure it wouldn't take too long for whitner to get a pick if he played on the giants or the packers, or for mckelvin to get one playing on the chargers. But, they play for the bills, where we run the same unsuccessful play all game long.

 

And just to make it clear, we still can improve, I'm not one of those people saying we'll be 5-11. We really should rock the jets this week, but we do need to fix the problems I mentioned above.

 

By the way, if your main memories of whitner are chasing higgins and ginn, then you must edit out all the tackles he's made when you're watching your film. He has more important tackles than anyone on our defense, outside of paul. So turn the tape back on and watch the games, and get back to me.

 

Whitner can play, don't doubt that whatsoever. He's every bit as important to this defense as paul or anyone else.

Thoughts?

 

 

well put.