GripnRip Posted October 27, 2008 Posted October 27, 2008 Whitner is not a "playmaker" in most peoples sense of the word. He doesn't ballhawk very well and is not a great blitzer. He is, however, a very good tackler and elimitates the big play to his side of the field. While it would be nice for him to be more of a big play threat like Troy Polamalu, you have to take the good with the bad. He is a very solid player, and very rarely makes mistakes. He is a perfect fit for a "bend but don't break" C2 like ours.
cantstopbeastmode Posted October 27, 2008 Posted October 27, 2008 I'd like some of the people in this thread to check out my thoughts in another thread that I started about our DB's. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
Canadian,eh! Posted October 27, 2008 Posted October 27, 2008 Whitner is not a "playmaker" in most peoples sense of the word. He doesn't ballhawk very well and is not a great blitzer. He is, however, a very good tackler and elimitates the big play to his side of the field. While it would be nice for him to be more of a big play threat like Troy Polamalu, you have to take the good with the bad. He is a very solid player, and very rarely makes mistakes. He is a perfect fit for a "bend but don't break" C2 like ours. Interesting thread. But you're wrong about the cover-2. The cover 2 looks for "bend but don't break" CB's... But it actually DEPENDS on the Safeties to be the PLAYMAKERS of the entire D. Right now we are def lacking playmaking from ours. I'll add that I've been saying the same thing about Whitner for 2 years. He's a good tackler for the most part, but as a top 10 pick at S, I need to see a heck of a lot more than tackles.
GripnRip Posted October 27, 2008 Posted October 27, 2008 Interesting thread. But you're wrong about the cover-2. The cover 2 looks for "bend but don't break" CB's... But it actually DEPENDS on the Safeties to be the PLAYMAKERS of the entire D. Right now we are def lacking playmaking from ours. Whitner is the type PLAYMAKER for our defense. His tackling and positioning is the main reason we very rarely give up big plays. Our defense has played great all year and is still the #11 defense in the league in points. Why change a winning formula?
The Dean Posted October 27, 2008 Posted October 27, 2008 I'd like some of the people in this thread to check out my thoughts in another thread that I started about our DB's. Let me know what you think. Thanks. link?
Dan Posted October 27, 2008 Posted October 27, 2008 link? I think this thread would be the comments he was referring to.
Shanahan's Horseshoe Posted October 27, 2008 Posted October 27, 2008 I'd like some of the people in this thread to check out my thoughts in another thread that I started about our DB's. Let me know what you think. Thanks. Gee thanks PF Jr.! Here is where you are WRONG. The Bills BASE DEFENSE is a cover 2 system, which you explained...sort of. Its not the Defense that we are in on every play or else teams would be picking at the deep corners and middle 3rd all day long. Take the Arizona game, the Bills were playing a ton of cover 3 and quarters to protect Mcelvin and that is why AZ torched us underneath getting the ball to their WR's in space. There is no space underneath in a C2! During yestdays game the Bills were playing a ton of man under and that is why TGJR was beating TM all over the field and our safties were no where near the ball when he was catching it because they were playing over the top most of the time. If we were in a C2 defense, TM would have been rolled up in that zone and had more than a few to take to the house. So enough with the "we play a cover 2 defense" because B. Scott and Donte were in the box a ton yesterday and you cant defend against the Wildcat in a C2 base, you will get run over. On to Donte, I thought he was one of the few Bills to show up yesterday. He kept TGJR from taking it to the house and made some solid tackles around the line of scrimmage. There was the "Pennington Pancake" but hey, you cant be perfect on everyplay. The problem is his postgame comments. He always has something to say. Most of the great talkers in this league like TO, Chad, Shannon Sharpe, Deon, Ray Lewis and even Phillip Rivers back it up with top notch play. DW does not perform at a high level. He is a jack of all trades and a master of none. He is always healthy. He holds Nintendo tourney's at his house and pays for the pizza. If he would just shut up and play the game, I dont think anyone would have a problem with him. Hell, no one mentions Kelsey or K Williams name on this board. Why? Because they go out there, perform steadily and go home and prepare for the next game! But because DW has to always talk, he opens himself up for criticism. That being said, I thought he played his best game of the year yesterday...I just wish he would shut up!
Lenigmusx Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 Just like Whitner, a lot of guys dog Schoebel. He has been playing not a full strength the past 2 seasons and yet there has been a few games this seasons where he hasn't gotten sacks but has at least gotten pressure on the Qb. When I made the earlier statement, I said when all those players get FULLY healthy then we may go from having a good defense to a dominating one, especially if we release the dogs and start attacking offenses. We seem to play at our best when we are either blitzing, faking it, or using the standup D-line. We are at our worst when we rush 4 and play soft coverage with bend but don't break mentality! Once McGee and Youbouty get back at FULL strength, Fewell would have more confidence in his DBs and allow them to take more chances and play tighter coverage while pressuring the QB. Kawika and Poz are great blitzers; by not fully taking advantages of their strengths then we are not utilizing our D to its FULLEST potential! I hate to say it guys but we also are really missing Crowell. He is also a strong blitzing linebacker who has more of an on field presense than Elison. It is a shame that we lost him for the season although in the long run it may mean he is cheaper to keep. Fewell needs to be more creative with his schemes. We have personel but he is not using them. When he realized how bad McGee was yesterday he should have moved Whinter to Corner and played Simpson and Scott at the saftey positions like he did against S.D.. If we could hold off Rivers with that personel then we could have held off Pennington. It would have also given us more size for run support. It just seems like Fewell dosen't always see the big picture. The turnovers were the back breaker though but we need to get them off the field more quickly as well. I believe we only forced 3 punts ( not sure though). Edwards is going to have days like yesterday remember both Jimbo and Fergy had Bad, Ugly and even grotesque days even during there best years!! Here to the rebound "W"!!! Cheers!
Dawgg Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 One could argue that Henry Jones had a slightly better defense around him Excuse #247 for Donte. Keep em coming! His play on the field is slowly but surely confirming what has been obvious for quite some time. Donte's talk > Donte's walk.
The Dean Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 I think this thread would be the comments he was referring to. I forgot to thank you, Dan. I made my comments there. Have you notice Dawgg only drags out his old, tired act after the Bills lose? When things are going well, the old Dawgg stays in his little house, I guess. The smell of blood, gets him going though. Still you can't expect to teach an old Dwagg new tricks.
Dawgg Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 I forgot to thank you, Dan. I made my comments there. Have you notice Dawgg only drags out his old, tired act after the Bills lose? When things are going well, the old Dawgg stays in his little house, I guess. The smell of blood, gets him going though. Still you can't expect to teach an old Dwagg new tricks. Really? Nice try, anyway. I have plenty of praise to give to the players who actually earn it on the field, not with their rhetoric.
The Dean Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 Really? Nice try, anyway. I have plenty of praise to give to the players who actually earn it on the field, not with their rhetoric. So, are you arguing that you do come out when the Bills win, or that you CAN change your old and tired act? I think an historic audit would show you post far more often, and seemingly with more glee, when the Bills are down.
StupidNation Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 Whitner also ran down Ted Ginn, from behind, and saved a TD. He was making up ground so fast, that Ginn stopped, and tried to juke him and got caught by Mitchell. Had Mitchell not been there, Donte still had him on the sideline and would have pushed him out of bounds. Whitner bashing is so yesterday. He was one the few defensive players that didn't stink, yesterday. Did you eat Donte Flakes while wearing Donte 3-D glasses while watching the game? He gave up 2 huge plays, and Donte was LUCKY Mitchell was there otherwise it would've been a touchdown. When have you seen Donte stop a big play from a TD in the secondary? When have you seen him break up a pass in the past 2 years plus? The long run by Williams Donte was being eaten up by a WR downfield and couldn't shed the block.
Thurman#1 Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 Just like Whitner, a lot of guys dog Schoebel. He has been playing not a full strength the past 2 seasons and yet there has been a few games this seasons where he hasn't gotten sacks but has at least gotten pressure on the Qb. When I made the earlier statement, I said when all those players get FULLY healthy then we may go from having a good defense to a dominating one, especially if we release the dogs and start attacking offenses. We seem to play at our best when we are either blitzing, faking it, or using the standup D-line. We are at our worst when we rush 4 and play soft coverage with bend but don't break mentality! Once McGee and Youbouty get back at FULL strength, Fewell would have more confidence in his DBs and allow them to take more chances and play tighter coverage while pressuring the QB. Kawika and Poz are great blitzers; by not fully taking advantages of their strengths then we are not utilizing our D to its FULLEST potential! If you wait for an NFL defense to be fully healthy, you're likely to be waiting a long, long time.
Dawgg Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 I'm glad you pay close attention to my posting patterns, it's quite flattering actually. I think an historic audit would show you post far more often, and seemingly with more glee, when the Bills are down. Given the fact that the Bills hold one of the longest-standing playoff droughts in the NFL alongside perennial doormats like Arizona and Detroit, the Bills have been "down" for the better part of the last decade. So yes, statistically speaking, the chances are significant that more posts will be during "down" periods than "up" periods, as the "up" periods have been few and far between! Unlike you, I don't gush about marginal players. I was right about McCargo from the start (you were wrong). I was (and still am) right about Dockery being overpaid and overrated (you were wrong) and I was right about the fact that JP ought to be benched in favor of Trent Edwards (you were wrong). I think you need to put away your Whitner jersey and give some love to the real stars on this team -- guys who, unlike Whitner, bring it every Sunday with their PLAY as opposed to grandstanding in front of the press. Guys like Trent Edwards, Marshawn Lynch, and Lee Evans.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 I'm glad you pay close attention to my posting patterns, it's quite flattering actually. Given the fact that the Bills hold one of the longest-standing playoff droughts in the NFL alongside perennial doormats like Arizona and Detroit, the Bills have been "down" for the better part of the last decade. So yes, statistically speaking, the chances are significant that more posts will be during "down" periods than "up" periods, as the "up" periods have been few and far between! Unlike you, I don't gush about marginal players. I was right about McCargo from the start (you were wrong). I was (and still am) right about Dockery being overpaid and overrated (you were wrong) and I was right about the fact that JP ought to be benched in favor of Trent Edwards (you were wrong). I think you need to put away your Whitner jersey and give some love to the real stars on this team -- guys who, unlike Whitner, bring it every Sunday with their PLAY as opposed to grandstanding in front of the press. Guys like Trent Edwards, Marshawn Lynch, and Lee Evans. This sums up everything I hate about fans like you. You'd rather be right than see the Bills win. That's beyond pathetic. Here's the thing you're missing. We're fans. We don't control who is on the team. True fans root for the players on the team. Dean is 100% right. I rarely see you after wins. But you love to come out after losses. I speaks a lot to your character. BTW, you've been kinda of quiet about Dvoracek and his career 21 tackles and D. Manning, a career backup. And judging by the statistics, the Bills defense that has Whitner and McCargo is ranked 11th, while your beloved Bears are 18th. Keep up the good work!!!
Zero Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 When he is saved by zero Well I'm here, so you need me to save Donte first?
Dawgg Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 This sums up everything I hate about fans like you. You'd rather be right than see the Bills win. That's beyond pathetic. Here's the thing you're missing. We're fans. We don't control who is on the team. True fans root for the players on the team. Dean is 100% right. I rarely see you after wins. But you love to come out after losses. I speaks a lot to your character. I'd rather see the Bills make good moves than bad ones. Many moves they have made are good. And I give them due credit for that. Many moves they make are questionable. I don't hesitate to criticize those moves. If you want to assess my character from an internet message board, be my guest. I couldn't care less about what you think. BTW, you've been kinda of quiet about Dvoracek and his career 21 tackles and D. Manning, a career backup. And judging by the statistics, the Bills defense that has Whitner and McCargo is ranked 11th, while your beloved Bears are 18th. Keep up the good work!!! It's apparent that you're not all that bright. You can attack Dvoracek and Manning all you want. The bottom line is that they're good enough to make this Bills team and they bring more to the table than McCargo. You were wrong about the McCargo pick. Admit it like a man, and move on. Had the Bills kept those 2 picks, they likely would have addressed other needs. Starting tackles Daryn Colledge and Marcus McNeill were both available in slot where Manning was picked. And leave it to you to judge a player by the number of tackles he has -- a DT no less. It makes perfect sense. No wonder you have a permanent hard-on for Donte Whitner. He has 100 tackles, he MUST be a Pro Bowler! And judging by the statistics, the Bills defense that has Whitner and McCargo is ranked 11th, while your beloved Bears are 18th. Keep up the good work!!! The Bears defense is ranked 6th in rush defense, allowing 85 yards a game. Dvoracek has been a big part of that. The Bills are 13th. Nice try, come again.
YOOOOOO Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 Did you eat Donte Flakes while wearing Donte 3-D glasses while watching the game? He gave up 2 huge plays, and Donte was LUCKY Mitchell was there otherwise it would've been a touchdown. When have you seen Donte stop a big play from a TD in the secondary? When have you seen him break up a pass in the past 2 years plus? The long run by Williams Donte was being eaten up by a WR downfield and couldn't shed the block. Were are these two huge plays he gave up....??
Ramius Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 Excuse #247 for Donte. Keep em coming! His play on the field is slowly but surely confirming what has been obvious for quite some time. Donte's talk > Donte's walk. Glad to see that you still don't possess the mental acuity to fully understand the game of football and to see that each individual player on a field is not in a vacuum and that in fact, the other players surrounding them can have an impact on them. By the way, hows your boy Vince Young doing this season? He's really tearing it up down there in tennessee.
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