NFL voids Haslett's contract

[silvermike]

The Haslett situation is a rare case where the Rooney Rule doesn't make sense, but must be applied according to the league's by-laws.

 

But otherwise, we've had the thing for years now. What's the worst thing that's happened because of it? Somebody had to buy Ted Cottrell a plane ticket?

[keepthefaith]

You want me to be honest? It doesn't take the same mental abilities to be a player as it does to be a head coach. That is why there are only 3 (or so) black starting QB's in the NFL. The problem has to do with inner-city schooling, not GM's hiring people because of race.

 

Bullshyt. Nothing wrong with inner city schooling that teaches the same subjects often from the same text books as suburban schools taught by teachers with the same qualifications. Problem is with inner city parents (or lack thereof) and the lack of commitment to education by these families and the culture that exists among inner city people. It's a culture of acedemic, professional and family failure and it continues with each successive generation that practices the same failed approaches.

 

Now as far as head coaches, I think we're past the point of proving that coaches of any color can be successful and with the pressure in the league to win, I think owners will go with whoever they thinks gives them the best chance to do that.

[The Dean]

The Haslett situation is a rare case where the Rooney Rule doesn't make sense, but must be applied according to the league's by-laws.

 

But otherwise, we've had the thing for years now. What's the worst thing that's happened because of it? Somebody had to buy Ted Cottrell a plane ticket?

 

 

If the Rams want to hire Haslett, they will hire Haslett, so I don't see a problem. The Rams will interview a few guys, and that may help them get a head start in a couple of years when they fire Haslett.

[mchammer]

That is an excellent question. If I were the 49ers, I certainly would do a series of interviews.

 

But, I don't think hiring Singletary without the process would violate the NFL policy. It's very clear the policy is meant to rectify some of the built-in injustices in the system. As people hire those they know, coached with, have heard of, and those who once had the job, the bias is toward "cronyism"...the old (usually White) by network. The requirement of interviewing minority candidates simply gets other names in the process, gives them opportunities to interview, gets their name out there...and sometimes gets them jobs. In 10-15 years, Black coaches will be fairly entrenched in the old boy network, and probably won't need the leg-up.

 

If the rule was meant to rectify "cronyism" why not make it so you have to interview at least X amount of coordinators and not specifically minority personnel? If I remember correctly, when the rule came into effect there was an out cry from players about the disparity in the percentage of black players and black head coaches.

 

In the end I think it was a good rule, only because we do not see the same old coaches with different teams every year. If anything the pendulum has swung the other way whereas every team wants to hire the youngest and freshest coordinator they can find. Even if they are one hit wonders (like Mangini).

[Lori]

Well, there is a reason why there aren't that many black coaches in the league... and it has nothing to do with race. It simply boils down to the fact that inner-city education isn't very good.. so naturally there aren't many good candidates. Maybe we should get rid of the rooney rule and replace it with one that makes you interview a candidate that grew up in areas with bad schooling?

You didn't really go there, did you? Seriously? Holy hell.

[NicholasCal1]

So are you trying to imply that Haslett got shafted? Because its actually better for him.

 

He became the coach of a team that has lost something like 17 of their last 20 games, and has looked to be turning them around. If he became a free agent coach at the end of the year, he'd have every team in need of a coaching vacancy virtually banging down his door. He would probably get a nice, fat deal from an organization that likely is in a better situation than St. Louis, not to mention a fresh start with a lot more money.

 

If they didn't have that rule, he might be stuck with only one option - coaching the dead beat Rams. Now he can pick whatever he wants. He can field offers, and if they don't knock his socks off, he can probably just return to the Rams.

if he gets the rams going this year you know jerry jones will be the first in line to hire him.

[silvermike]

To me, a good metric on the hiring of minority HCs would be looking at what percentage of head coaches are former NFL players and then seeing if that percentage matches up with the number of black players that has normally been in the league. Not all HCs come from the player ranks.

 

Let's see:

 

White head coaches with NFL Experience: 8

Dick Jauron

Gary Kubiak

Jack Del Rio

Jeff Fisher (I didn't know this; but his NFL career ended when Bill Cowher tackled him and broke his leg)

Tom Cable

Jim Zorn

Ken Whisenhunt

Jim Haslett

 

White head coaches, no NFL experience: 17

Tony Sparano

Bill Belichick

Eric Mangini

Jon Harbaugh

Mike Shanahan

Norv Turner

Wade Phillips

Tom Coughlin

Andy Reid

Rod Marinelli

Mike McCarthy

Brad Childress

Mike Smith (did play in the CFL)

John Fox

Sean Payton (was a scab in 1987)

Jon Gruden

Mike Holmgren (drafted, did not make team)

 

Black head coaches with NFL experience: 3

Tony Dungy

Herm Edwards

Mike Singletary

 

Black head coaches, no NFL experience: 4

Marvin Lewis

Romeo Crennell

Mike Tomlin

Lovie Smith

 

So from the pool of ex-players, there are more than twice as many white coaches as black coaches, as opposed to the general makeup of the league, which is about 70% black. So we'd expect to see about 7 ex-player black coaches and 4 white, a rough reverse of our current situation.

 

Also notable is how few coaches used to be pro players - about a third. As to this issue, the NFL has uncontroversially began a coaching internship program to get ex-players into the coaching ranks. Long term, that program could go a long way towards easing the racial disparity. I don't think the Rooney Rule was meant to be more than a short-term solution, although we're still in the short-term.

[Saint Doug]

We can all talk about "rules being rules," but a meaningful discussion would show that the Rooney Rule in its current state is a farce. C'mon, let's get past the concrete thinking. Everybody know "the rules" and can look them up. No need to mindlessly regurgitate them.

 

OK, look at the Mora Jr hiring and look at the Mariucci hiring. It seems that there are ways around it. The Rams have publicly stated they want Haslett. If AAs want practice interviews, that's great.

 

I am all for minority hiring, but I don't think the current system works. It seems that it punishes you if you want to hire someone without the intervewing process. It shouldn't do this - it's just not fair. What it should do is reward teams for interviewing/hiring minorities. Make it some ridiculous benefit - like millions in tax breaks - for the interviewing and hiring of minorities. This would be very enticing to owners who mostly are concerned about their wallets. Saying you can't just outright hire who want just seems unfair.

[Fingon]

Inner city education isn't very good, but yeah the context of his statements is pretty bad. Making it look like 100% of the black race involved in pro football, strictly comes from the ghetto is quite naive. Although I will say sadly the fact there aren't more black coaches comes from this old school train of thought. Kind of like an old boys club. It's sad that even someone as good as a Tony Dungy can't really change the perception. Ideally it would be fantastic if he had less to do about race, and more about credentials. One day maybe. In this case I don't like the Rooney Rule. Again it should be about credentials. I hate the whole context of giving an interview, when you want someone else, who can help your team. It shouldn't be about fluffing up others. Knowing full well they won't even get the job. I believe it was Denny Green who said something along the lines of. Why would someone interview for a job, they know they're not gonna get, just for the hell of it?

Well, statistically minorities tend to live in poorer areas which tends to have poor education.

[Fingon]

You didn't really go there, did you? Seriously? Holy hell.

It's true. 33% of black children live in poverty. The only way to fix this is to fix the educational system. Right now bad schools are losing funding, and schools that don't need it as much are getting more.

[Saint Doug]

It's true. 33% of black children live in poverty. The only way to fix this is to fix the educational system. Right now bad schools are losing funding, and schools that don't need it as much are getting more.

 

I work with the poor in the inner city and its a much, much bigger problem then bad schools. It doesn't matter how good the schools are when some of the kids aren't even showing up. A lot of it has to do with the prevalence of drugs in the inner city. Another problem is teenage pregnancy. Around here (Balti-less), its become a fashion statement to be pregnant.

[lets_go_bills]

The Rooney Rule is good and well-intentioned. Problem is, it creates "lame duck" interviews. In this case, it is clear the Rams want Haslett as their coach, but have to interview a minority candidate first. How's that guy going to feel knowing he has no shot.

 

With the Rooney Rule you sort of have to take the good with the bad.

 

It's hard to find fault with the Rams for wanting to reward a guy who a) has his team playing hard, competitve and winning; b) is already an established and well respected coach, with previous head coaching experience and; c) happens to already be entrenched in the team and their "system."

 

This would be a case of the Rooney Rule being "bad."

[The Dean]

We can all talk about "rules being rules," but a meaningful discussion would show that the Rooney Rule in its current state is a farce.

 

 

The Roonye Rule is anything but a farce. It has already paid dividends. It doesn't stop a team from hiring who they want, or force a team to hire someone they do not want. It was never meant to.

 

It is way to get people, who were being overlooked, some attention and opportunities. It has definitely done that. If you have some data that shows otherwise, I would love to see it.

[Saint Doug]

I saw its a farce because it just seems not to be working, not that it is ill-intentioned.

 

Look at the coaches that have been hired over the last few years, for example. Zorn was previously a QB coach that was hired out of the blue. Petrino was given his job after 3 years of NFL experience. Turner was given the reigns after 2 other failed HC gigs. What do they have in common? They're all white coaches that left people scratching their heads when they were hired. More examples about how the current system is failing: Mora Jr in Seattle. Sparano was practically given the HC job outright in Miami. Everyone knew Parcells wanted him; his interview was just window dressing. Garrett pretty much already has the HC job in Dallas and he hasn't even interviewed yet. Mangini was hired after just 1 year as defensive coordinator.

 

Seems to me that the Rooney Rule in its present state doesn't seem to apply/work for these teams.

 

Now, you may say that there are more Black coaches now than before. And this would be right. But, you really can say that their hiring was a direct result of the Rooney Rule. Marvin Lewis would have gotten a job anyways; he engineered one of the best defenses in history. Lovie Smith single-handedly turned the Rams D around. Same for Crennell - just look at the number of rings he has. My point is, they would have been hired anyways, not overlooked - Rooney or no Rooney.

 

As for the Rams, they have publically stated who they want as a coach. Why make it into something it isn't?

[The Dean]

I saw its a farce because it just seems not to be working, not that it is ill-intentioned.

 

Look at the coaches that have been hired over the last few years, for example. Zorn was previously a QB coach that was hired out of the blue. Petrino was given his job after 3 years of NFL experience. Turner was given the reigns after 2 other failed HC gigs. What do they have in common? They're all white coaches that left people scratching their heads when they were hired. More examples about how the current system is failing: Mora Jr in Seattle. Sparano was practically given the HC job outright in Miami. Everyone knew Parcells wanted him; his interview was just window dressing. Garrett pretty much already has the HC job in Dallas and he hasn't even interviewed yet. Mangini was hired after just 1 year as defensive coordinator.

 

Seems to me that the Rooney Rule in its present state doesn't seem to apply/work for these teams.

 

Now, you may say that there are more Black coaches now than before. And this would be right. But, you really can say that their hiring was a direct result of the Rooney Rule. Marvin Lewis would have gotten a job anyways; he engineered one of the best defenses in history. Lovie Smith single-handedly turned the Rams D around. Same for Crennell - just look at the number of rings he has. My point is, they would have been hired anyways, not overlooked - Rooney or no Rooney.

 

As for the Rams, they have publically stated who they want as a coach. Why make it into something it isn't?

 

 

Your rambling posts seem to avoid reality. No team is exempt from the rule. All the teams you note followed the procedure. The Rule isn't meant to force teams to hire minority candidates. The NFL doesn't' require teams to hire coaches that have a particular minimum of experience.

 

That more minority candidates are getting interviews, and being discussed as possible HC jobs is HUGE. By itself, it represents one success of the Rooney rule. Mike Tomlin has the Rooney Rule to thank for his job, according to reports. Chalk up another success of the rule. Are there more minority coordinators? position coaches? I'm not positive, but I think the answer is "yes", and these are where the head coaches of the future get their start.

 

Has it changed the face of the NFL yet? No. Of course not. This is a big problem that is very ingrained in the system. But, as I have just noted, it has made some difference already. It will likely be 10-15 years, or more, before the rule is irrelevant. But, you seem to think that, because some teams still hire white coaches with little experience, the rule is meaningless. That is simply short-term defeatist thinking.

 

Have a read:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs06/n...tory?id=2750645

[TheChimp]

Racism is so yesterday.

[Steely Dan]

The Niners just named Singletary HC. If he wins a bunch of games do they have to bring in white candidates for interviews at the end of the season?

 

IMO, yes.

 

 

To me, a good metric on the hiring of minority HCs would be looking at what percentage of head coaches are former NFL players and then seeing if that percentage matches up with the number of black players that has normally been in the league. Not all HCs come from the player ranks.

 

Agreed.

 

 

Bullshyt. Nothing wrong with inner city schooling that teaches the same subjects often from the same text books as suburban schools taught by teachers with the same qualifications. Problem is with inner city parents (or lack thereof) and the lack of commitment to education by these families and the culture that exists among inner city people. It's a culture of acedemic, professional and family failure and it continues with each successive generation that practices the same failed approaches.

 

Now as far as head coaches, I think we're past the point of proving that coaches of any color can be successful and with the pressure in the league to win, I think owners will go with whoever they thinks gives them the best chance to do that.

 

'Nuff said.